Match 100 [QF] : ARG : SUI - PINHEIRO (POR)

If it was a 2CT, it could be reviewed as a 2CT. And in that context, maybe Pinheiro wouldn’t be bound to caution Embolo?

 

Sure, if Pinhiero doesn’t want to get out of KC alive……….

 

didn't the Cape Verde player go into the stands after he scored and didn't get a yellow ?

 

Yes, but he was looking for his girlfriend.

 

and wouldn’t that review of the non-tackle and simulation force Pinheiro’s hand?

he looks pretty silly there rescinding the yellow card and not booking Embolo.

 

Of course they can, had the offense been a careless foul rather than a simulation. The rule worked exactly as it’s supposed to, remove the erroneous yellow from Paredes and reveal the actual offense, one that just so happened to require a yellow. It’s no one’s fault but Embolo.

 

Wasn't Argentina's 3rd goal offside? He didn't touch the ball but was 100% in the line of sight of the defender on the line trying to prevent the goal.

 

Didn't we have one in Faghani's first game early in the tournament? Or was it Makkelie?

 

I agree with you 100%. Giving is a scourge in the game and I can’t believe people are upset about it being punished here. Embolo 1000% deserves caution there and too bad if it’s his second.

I just don’t get the argument against it. It’s “harsh”? What does that mean? That we don’t think diving is a good reason to give someone a second yellow card? I absolutely do think it’s a good reason. Get that BS out of the game. I have absolutely no sympathy for a player who dives and gets punished for it.

The only problem is that it’s not punished more often. Others are right to point out that simulations in midfield are rarely punished in the professional game, and that should change. Throw the book at these clowns.

 

imo this should've been reviewed for red , ref didn't even give a yellow ...

 

Ok but why is this a bad thing? Yellow cards should be given for diving when it happens anywhere on the field.

I can understand there’s maybe some awkwardness about the fact that it only becomes reviewable if the dive was so good that it fooled the ref into cautioning an opponent. But I just don’t see how this is something that’s bad for the game. A clear cheater got his comeuppance. If anything we should want more of that!

 

I don’t think that’s arbitrary though. Effective dives are fundamentally more of a problem than ineffective dives that don’t fool the referee into giving a wrong caution or penalty.

 

Not to start a whole “should missed second yellow cards be reviewable” debate, but a crystal clear missed second yellow card like this one is, absolutely, a critical game-changing decision. The cherry one top is that the opponent wrongfully gets a wrong yellow card instead.

And like I said in a previous comment: there’s philosophical grounds for video review only being able to punish the dives that actually result in a wrong card or penalty, as the less-effective dives naturally have less of an impact on the game if they don’t fool the referee into doing something like that.

 

Nah. I didn't see any real malice there watching in real time. And even in the still image you've shown, its only the top half of his foot that makes contact. His heel is still on the turf.

 

he stepped on his left AND right foot/leg , even if there was no malice there must be some punishment for recklessness , to not give anything for this after giving two soft yellows for Argentina is just strange

 

I realize we’re past this with the Almiron card, but the Laws say “if the referee penalises an offence but has clearly misidentified the player who committed that offence, only the identity of the offender can be reviewed.” Key words: “that offense.” I don’t know how you possibly read simulation to be the same “offense” as a foul—it’s a *different* offense committed on the same play

 

How many games and uses of VAR have we seen this tournament where it's application and use leaves a bad taste in people's mouths?

This doesn't work.

An initial bad yellow card (which used to happen all the time) leads to a second caution caution red card that nobody really wanted or asked for (including me).

 

The following people are to blame for the 2CT, in order of culpabiility:
1. Embolo.
2. Bruno Jesus (AR1)
3. Drew Fisher
4. Pinhero

I have read all the comments here and I will never understand how anyone does not want this as a 2CT. It has to be. Holy Smokes. It was a huge dive. Not a little dive, and while I did not hear what Donovan said, it was not a "let me get out of the Argentinian's way..." It was a huge dive designed to get a yellow card and done right in front of the bench so that the ref would feel compelled to act. Heck, he even rolloed over into the bench area.

Jesus and Fisher should feel ashamed of themselves. They had clear lines of sight and had a chance to be save the day. On one replay you could see Fisher looking right through the tackle. Jesus saw the tackle, and looked to ref, but did not offer help. A better AR, like Atikson for sure, and probably Parker, would have been side stepping up probably wiht an arm out to intervene before the ref could have done something, and Pinhero didn't exactly have hs card out right away.

And teh whole, "it was onlyl a caution because the ref messed it up" is true, and is also the point. The dive worked! That's why its a caution.

This is a great use of VAR, and the inability of AR or of the 4th to intervene on something they should have had shows why it has to be the VAR. I'm sorry, but Embolo deserves all of the grief he gets, and I think peopel on this forum should not let the rest of the crew off the hook either.

 

I am sure there were, the difference is that people didn't think much of it.

If Embolo was given a yellow for this dive when we played the Swiss you wouldn't even know about it

 

Sorry I was being facetious

 

Embolo gave it the” 3 rolls and clutch my nearly broken shin” treatment. I’m a fan, not a ref; I love that card and expulsion. Get that shit out of the game.

I HATED HATED HATED Clattenburg saying it was harsh. No, it wasn’t. Embolo did the crime, so he had to do the time.

 

MLS seems to have less diving than most leagues around the world, and I think part of it might be that the league goes back after the fact and fines divers. Now, that works in a league season and doesn’t work for the knockout stages of a tournament. But this was justice done.

 

Correct!

I’m several pages behind obviously. If Embolo just goes to ground normally, then I’d feel bad for him. It’s the gymnastics routine on the ground followed by the clutching of the leg that IMO makes it fully justified. Sometimes a player gets tangled and goes to ground and then plays on. Giving a yellow for diving in that scenario IMO would be wrong. But Embolo was trying to get Paredes carded, so screw him.

The commentary here saying it was harsh isn’t taking into account Embolo clearly overselling it. He clearly initiated the contact and then clearly exaggerated the impact of the contact. He’s a veteran professional soccer player. He knew exactly what he was doing. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

Hypothetical: what happens if the approach of the Argentine defender is the same, there is no contact, embolo twists an ankle and goes down like he was shot (just like he actually did), and the Argentine defender gets a yellow card?

does this mean that before calling down, the VAR has to make the determination of whether embolo going down like he was shot was the natural result of a non-foul injurious event vs. a cautionable embellishment with an intent to deceive, so that criteria for mistaken identity can be met?