Match #1: BRA : CRO - NISHIMURA (JPN)

If you like soccer because players sometimes fake out referees so that they make game changing calls, you're the only one.

 

I have a few things to chime in on here. As a referee I feel really bad for Nishimura. He's worked hard all his life to get to this point, had a very good 2010 cup and the PK call (right or wrong) will likely be his legacy. Very unfortunate. I hope he heals well from this.

Second - as referee's we need to learn from this. Was his positioning correct? What did he see? (he was to the right of the contact and there is no way he could see between the players with his AR in view) What was the pre-game with the AR's on these decisions? If you were the AR there, what would you do? Anything? Was he focused here on that decision? Would you (me?) be? Up to that point, he looked like he was on cruise control. An "easy" game for him if you will. Is it possible this just jumped out at him?

Lastly, I've had discussions at international tourney's (Dallas Cup) and we've had discussions about Japanese referee's not calling or seeing a lot of simulation in their leagues. Simulation is often ignored if acknowledged at all. If true, I think that could be likely what happened here. Fred went down fantastically. He sold it so bad it was ridiculous and he should be sanctioned for it.

 

I always liked the goal line ambiguity. So the keeper gets an extra foot on distance shots and can make a spectacular, if technically incorrect, desperation save. It is "fair" in the sense that everyone's keeper can benefit. It is a very rare play. It is the human element up against static white lines on the field, and not nearly as frustrating as being tricked by player's deliberate deceptions.

 

It's actually ironic that this happened when AFC's referee contingent is probably one of the strongest they've sent.
After 2010 both Nishimura and Irmatov were/are tipped for latter stage matches.
Shukralla seems to be a solid performer. Williams can be a little hit and miss but solid when he gets it right.
Faghani is tipped to be a quality official, unlucky to only be a reserve here, will be a solid performer in Russia.

Only Nishimura is ineligible to be at Russia age wise, so hopefully the other 3+Faghani can build on Brazil.

 

You are wrong about that. The spray is merely a tool. It helps the ref, by putting a clear mark on the pitch. It also makes the players more weary of walking forward.
The brazilian league has been using the spray for years now and it's a great tool. The refs don't have any problem with it and it doesn't interfere with the flow of the game.

 

Just one Yellow didn't work in the Brazilian, Argentinian and Libertadores. The whole wall would move as soon as the ref turn away to go back to where the ball is. And player would ignore an yellow and keep encroaching which make a lot o refs afraid to issue a second, and the few times a red was shown all hell broke loose. Don't know why you dislike the spray can so much. The ref don't need to use it if he thinks the players are respecting the law and it is quite light to carry around

 

Driving back from picking up lunch I head Tommy Smith on ESPN Radio with Cowherd (or blowhard as I call him). He said "First thing I thought (regarding Nishimura) is "who is this guy? Where did he come from? I watch games each weekend and I've never heard of this guy."

This is just ludicrous. He was a prominent referee in 2010. #stupidstuffcommentatorssay

 

Dang!
THX
I thought it was Noon Central! I messed something about wrong OS, already....

 

First, I wish I had a super duper rep to give for this post that acutally QUOTES THE LAWS!!!! Love it!

Indeed, at least I was up to date on the right laws, but was looking for FIFA guidance documents (since the USSF at times differs with FIFA in its guidance, if memory serves.) about the situation specifically of a tripping following a tackle, for example when a slide tackle is successful without contact, but the dispossessed player subsequently trips over the slide tackle. I'll bake cookies for anyone who comes up with the interpretation document.

However, long story short I think that we're roughly on the same page in that there is judgment here, and given what we have on that video, it isn't clear whether the attacking player even made any contact or whether he utterly mugged him with a leg breaker. Personally, I think the video we have is from 100 yards away and is small and fast, and as a (very, very junior) ref myself, I'm going weigh heavily in deferring to the man who was standing a couple of yards away.

So, was it a foul? I'm taking Nishimura's word for it on this one.

 

so now besides this being a refereeing forum, it´s also a psychology and sociology forum? Just for your info, every commentator and refereeing analyst in Brazil said Fred dived. All the talk was if Brazil deserved to win that game, because most people in BRAZIL (!!) considers that the bogus PK probably changed the game.

the only different things: people in Brazil and refereeing analysts (ex-referees) say that JC suffered a foul, that Neymar's foul was reckless and was deserving of a yellow. Most disagree it should be a red, although it was dangerous for Neymar himself because it gave ground for the referee to give a red.

and opinions are divided about Ramires tackle being a foul or not. Since he gets the ball first before touching the Croatian player.

but you saying Brazilians consider Fred is a hero for earning the PK with a dive is just your own ugly pre-conceived notion about brazilians.

 

Based on the second game I'm not seeing the "if a European/South American had reffed this game it would have been fine" argument gaining much support...

 

First of all, glad to hear the reaction in Brazil. Given the fact that a lot of Brazilians seem down on the World CUp itself and haven't warmed to this team (I've not heard of anyone saying Brazil played well), that isn't surprising.

However, as SocialLUrker pointed out, whether he gets the ball first isn't directly material, since you can get the ball first, while also scissoring your other leg around for a straight red, or pushing or any number of other simultaneous contact that rises to the level of "careless, reckless , or using excessive force."

I am guessing Brazil had the same feed at ESPN, with the distant center camera only, but were there any closeups of that or photos of that foul? I'm really curious whether the croatia went flying because there was contact or whether he tripped over the ball once Ramires got his foot around it also or something else entirely.

 

kk.. i see you talked a lot about PK call...
but i just dont understand this:

why at this Fred diving Lovren got a yellow card? :



but in this action just before Oscars goal, tackle on Rakitic wasnt even foul?:

 

And of course, I am dead certain that BS can argue your yellow and red card decisions to death just as much as we argue Nishimura's! I for one am going to demand instant replay and goal line technology on any decisions you issue...

 

An interesting passage from this Washington Post article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...cup-underway-u-s-players-can-all-feel-it-now/

"FIFA assigned an officiating representative to meet with every World Cup squad in the days before the tournament. American Esse Baharmast, a former MLS and World Cup official, met with the U.S. team Monday night for about 30 minutes. No particular points of emphasis were discussed, a team spokesman said, but players were allowed to ask questions.

Baharmast was at the center of controversy at the 1998 World Cup, when he awarded a late penalty kick to Norway against Brazil. The backlash was severe, but a day later, new video angles supported his ruling.

“Some rules may be hot – we have to watch out with tackling in the box, with holding on corner kicks,” said midfielder Jermaine Jones, who has a knack for collecting yellow cards. “So we just don’t touch the guys in the box.”

So it's entirely possible that refs were specifically instructed to clamp down on holding/pulling in the box. And it seems that players were advised of this as well, even if it wasn't stressed specifically.
Now I'm not excusing the call, which was wrong even if this is the case, and I'm certainly not excusing Fred for diving, but at least it might help understand what was going on in the refs head.

 

why at this Fred diving Lovren got a yellow card? : IMO dissent



but in this action just before Oscars goal, tackle on Rakitic wasnt even foul?:

I do not see a foul here, he went and got the ball clean. His momentum takes the leg of the Croatian out, I've many tackles like that and not only in the EPL. It could have gone any way

 

AWESOME! Thanks for providing that video, which is a TON clearer than what I'd seen before. ( and now I can cast a bemused look at the people who said it was "100% clear that it was a push" haha)

As for the yellow on Lovren, I think the consensus is that it was for dissent, although assuming Lovren prevented Fred's shot by holding him (Remember that's Nishimura's view) to be correct, I'm casting around for any interpretation of USB or something that might apply. I think it has to be dissent.

Boy, as for Ramires's follow-through after he tackles the ball away, I would LOVE to hear the views of more experienced refs than I about that contact. Seems like pretty stiff contact to collide with the player after the tackle like that. I'd have no argument with a whistle blown there, for sure.

 

That is a foul for me. This is the classic situation of going through a player to get the ball. How can you say he got the ball clean when he went through the player to get the ball and then also took the player out with the follow through? What's clean about that? This isn't a situation where the momentum of the tackled player causes him to trip; it was all the actions of the tackler that caused the contact.

I think a quick whistle on this gets no complaints on the field, if the proper tone has been set all match.

 

FIFA's Referee head defended Nishimuri. In the past, FIFA was usually silent on controversial calls.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/13/fifa-defend-referees-brazil-croatia?CMP=twt_gu

 

not sure why you are talking about Fred's dive, considering even in Brazil only a very small minority of self-deluded people don´t think it was a clear dive and a wrong call by the ref.

because Fred's penalty has like 99.999% of people thinking it WAS a dive. And from the ref point of view, it may have looked as if Fred was pulled (he doesn´t have the help of cameras, from HIS pov, it may have looked so)

Ramires tackled has no such majority of people thinking it WAS illegal. Ramires first touches the ball. If he commits a foul after or not is more open to interpretation.

I am still not sure. I've seen much worse in the Premier League with referees NOT CALLING a foul and nobody complaining, because the PL allows more these kind of tackles.

But since it´s Brazil playing at home and after already having a huge advantage due to Fred's dive, then this tackle which would go unnoticed at the Premier League or Bundesliga became a huge deal.

 

He rams his knee right up his coccyx. So like I said, Its 100% clear he came through with his trailing leg hard. And that is slow motion. Show it in live action and it is clear the force involved was excessive.

It was 100% clear in the previous video as well that he came through with his leg hard.

I am sorry you are too biased to admit this.

 

Would certainly explain the slight pause before the whistle went. That extra beat to think through, "No, not a foul. But the point of emphasis? Yes. Whistle."

 

well.. isnt this is just one of those two-leg tackles that have purpose to wipe out the player.. and not the ball..
as i remember from past champioships, every two-leg tackle was called as a foul, at least...

for me is just strange that it is "wors"e to pull player in the box, than going in his path and wipe him with two-leg tackle..

 

To clarify, my attitude is coming from less of a refereeing perspective and more of an overall perspective. From a refereeing perspective, we want those calls to be right. Based on what I've seen, I think he missed the penalty, got the GK interference call right, and I defer to him on the foul leading up to the third goal. I can't imagine what Nishimura is going through right now, nobody wants to miss a call like that on a stage like this. That said, was he the right man for the job? Sure. Would any of the other referees there have done better? Maybe, but maybe not.

From a bigger picture, we love sports because anything can happen. It's real, it's unscripted. It's actual people living their lives and their dreams. We hope that it's a beautiful combination to score a miraculous goal, a perfectly timed tackle, or a brilliant move to fake out the defense. Sometimes is a sitter missed, sometimes it's a howler in the 90th minute, sometimes it's a bad call. Either way, we watch sports for the narrative and the storyline. I don't think that's mediocre and I don't think I'm the only one.