When is Mapp coming back to play? Is it worth brining him now that the team seems to be playing well together? I think so, a rolfe-blanco-mapp midfield would be sick. I think Barrett is starting to show his worth, i kno it's just one goal but seriuosly the guy is pretty quick and gets a lot of chances, if he just learns to stay a bit more composed he could become a top striker in the league. Where do you think we really need new players most next year? Most people would say forward, which is what every team wants to get, but teams aren't made by a striker. I think the unit of Rolfe, Barrett, Carr, and Wanchope should be servicable next year. I think we could really use another winger.
If Rolfe continues his play in the playoffs I would not be surprised to see a German, Dutch or CC side look into his services during the transfer window.
I agree. The ship has sailed on this one. He isn't getting any younger either. Sometimes you have to cut your losses. I think it's pretty telling that Wanchope has yet to play a part in the playoffs.
Now the trick is to get rid of him without eating his salary. I believe he signed for at least 3 years.
I'm willing to wait until Wanchope has a full training camp behind him. It was only a year ago he scoring goals at the WC.
It'll have to be a German or Dutch side. He'd never qualify for an English work permit unless he has some sort of unknown option at attaining EU citizenship. And even with the German/Dutch teams, they're not usually too keen to go after our attacking players, usually opting to go after defenders, d-mids, or guys that are just pure speed. Our offensive players have a tendency to either end up injured (and Rolfe isn't known for durability) or out of the line up for the slightest drop in form, or attitude problems (Landon & Mathis) Germany 2006 almost fell victim to the way we punished Portugal. Not taking your opening opponent seriously. And they had problems with goalkeeping that eventually sunk them. I just don't think a training camp is going to do anything for him. He never was "fast", just fast enough to put himself in poaching positions, and that really doesn't seem to be there anymore. MLS defenders are generally pretty fast. He got to MLS because of his connection with Osorio, not because MLS really wanted to go out and sign him, and no one in MLS really challenged for him, even after the WC and he started bouncing around. If it wasn't for JCO, he'd be back in Costa Rica playing for the Phone Company
At the time Osorio didn't have a lot of choices and it wasn't a bad gamble and they needed someone but next year we need someone more consistent.
Actually, it was rumored Red Bulls were willing to offer Wanchope a Designated Player contract but he turned them down... mostly because of the turf.
It is obvious that Wanchope hasnt lived up to expectations this year but I also agree that a full training camp is needed along with him adapting to the style of play, if its even possible. Most of the Fire goals have come from quick attacks with Blanco releasing the forwards on through balls and not from slowly building the offense and crossing it in which may suit Wanchope more at this point in his career. Wanchope is better in front of goal than being played for through balls where the strikers still need to do some work. Barrett, Rolfe, and Carr have the speed to play that style. Granted, Wanchope hasnt taken most of his opportunities when he gets them. Some people need more time to adapt but he can be a good target player and his goal against Columbus to win the game massively helped the Fire for the playoff run. To give up on him now is not the right thing to do.
I realized this thread was about Mapp and not Wanchope...so out of all players on the team, he should have the highest trade value. Defense is set for at least another year so if you can get a great right midfielder or a striker, it may be worth it.
Or we could go with a line-up like this without even making a trade or pick-up (assuming only Armas retires): --------------Pickens--------------- Robinson---CJ------Sega----Conde- ---------Pause----Guerrero-------- --Rolfe-------Cuauh--------Mapp--- -------------Rooney #2------------ IMO, that is one of the stronger line-ups on the continent. Very talented and balanced all over. The only question mark is whether Barrett can handle that role. If not, Wanchope may work there or we could then sign a forward.
that's a great looking line up, i think the defense is pretty well set but could maybe use one more strong defender. Also could use someone in pause's spot like a really good player we could pick up with Armas' retirment and gettin rid of the Curtin bros
1. Armas may or may not be retiring. 2. Pause has played as well or better over the last 6 weeks than at any other point in his career. 3. You're suggesting that we lose both Armas and Pause, but replace them with just 1 player? Other than that, you've got a point.
PLease god no! No more Armas. The guy is done.. We have a Reyna in the making. he is going to take up valuable cap space and spend half the season on the bench next year. We just dont need that. God love him but he needs to call it quits. The league is getting too competetive for guys like Armas and brown to have one good game and three bad ones and still make us competetive.
What planet are you living on? I don't think I saw CJ have 3 bad games all season, let alone in a row. He's playing some of the best defense we've seen from him in years. And while it's clear Armas not where he used to be, since Osorio's arrival, I don't think I would call any of the games he's had bad. Not saying I wouldn't totally understand them retiring (or in Armas's case, not changing his mind about retiring), but just because they're long in the tooth doesn't mean they don't have things to offer the club.
That is a very strong lineup (weak point is the striker). Sega and Conde can play either spot they're currently at (both are strong in the middle and can run the flanks), though I'd rather see Conde in the central spot. Rotating in and out of that lineup with something along the lines of a 4-4-2 diamond would work as well. The obvious need in the offseason is to find a second striker who can put the ball in the back of the net. Barrett is currently in form, but he's been streaky in the past. Maybe Osorio can bring him into truly great form, but I'm not wagering the farm on it just yet. Armas looked dramatically better since Blanco and Osorio's arrival, but seeing him retire this season (hopefully on top) is something I hope to see. Brown, despite a rough start is playing great soccer. I thought he might be done early on, but having him around for another season or two is looking like a worthwhile investment. Five months ago the 2008 season looked like it could be a rough one. Now? Defending or contending for the title is a reasonable expectation.
Originally Posted by SixKick Or we could go with a line-up like this without even making a trade or pick-up (assuming only Armas retires): --------------Pickens--------------- Robinson---CJ------Sega----Conde- ---------Pause----Guerrero-------- --Rolfe-------Cuauh--------Mapp--- -------------Rooney #2------------ IMO, that is one of the stronger line-ups on the continent. Very talented and balanced all over. The only question mark is whether Barrett can handle that role. If not, Wanchope may work there or we could then sign a forward. I don't think I would want to live with that Line-Up. Assuming there are no additions to the line-up, I would prefer to see for --------------Pickens--------------- Robinson---CJ------Sega----Conde- ---------Pause OR Guerrero-------- ---Thorrington------Cuauh--------Mapp--- ------Rolfe-------Wanchope------------ I do not want Barrett as a starter. I think the Fire should protect him (if they have to, depending on his status), but I simply do not think he is starter material. I think that Wanchope will be fine next season. If he is not scoring regularly after the first half of the season, he is gone. I can not believe that I am even partially suggesting Pause for a starting role, but I think he may be okay.
Rolfe is more value to us up top. You will see us with obtain a right mid in the off season. Thorrington was just a stop gap measure. This will be Osarios first off season. He will make changes. I'm sure Mapp's lack of fitness may be an issue with him. I would not be surprised to see him moved but, I would expect to get value for him.
Let me, already painted as Armashater #1, allegedly, assert that I don't know if Armas needs to fully hang them up, given his resurgence, but if he does come back, it needs to be as a first D-Mid sub off the bench and Osorio needs to work Pause as the central defensive/holding mid of the future, and develop Telesford or Soumare at the position or if that doesn't work, park Conde there until we can get another defender or def/holding mid. The league has passed him by as a starter, but maybe not as a sub/role/mentor player. He would also have to take a salary cut if he came back. 225K is too pricey for any d-mid in MLS, short of Shalrie Joseph I think he's here on earth and wherever you are, they must not get direct kick. Both of them had horrible games, especially when we lost Rolfe to injury and Mapp/Ivan to their nats teams, though it seems that to some degree was also due to players around them, but there were plenty of examples of just all around poor play from every player on the field prior to Blanco's arrival. IMHO, I can't see Armas having much to offer as a starter next season. I can only see that retarding the development of other players that will eventually need to fill his spot. Same with Diego, and to a lesser degree CJ, but I can't see him being a starter beyond 2008. As for anyone who thinks Wanchope should be penciled in as starter for next season, answer me this: Do you in all honesty think he could have got to the ball that Barrett nailed against DC? I don't. And no amount of off season training, rest, or training camp is going to make him faster. He's done as a starter. Barrett, Rolfe and Wanchope's replacement are the future.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying except this. Having DK, I saw every match we played this year, and yah, I concede that CJ had a bad game or two, but not much more than that. Even when we were in the midst of the full team suck, I saw CJ having good matches for the most part. The only reason he didn't start all 30 matches was YC accumulation. The statement originally made indicated that CJ was having more bad than good games, and frankly, having watched them all, I am convinced the only way you come to that opinion is unrealistic expectations of a defender or really good freakin drugs.
Now let's show what that lineup would look like when the FIRE has the ball: --------------Pickens--------------- Robinson---CJ------Sega----Conde- ---------Pause----Guerrero-------- --------------Cuauh--------------- --Rolfe------Rooney #2-----Mapp--- Now let's show what that lineup would look like when the other team has the ball have the ball: --------------Pickens--------------- Robinson---CJ------Sega----Conde- ---------Pause----Guerrero-------- --Rolfe-------Cuauh--------------- --------Rooney #2-----Mapp[walking around aimlessly]--- Note the acres of space left vacant behind Justin Mapp in the MF. Conde would then have much more than his share of work to do, and the goals would then flood in from all angles. Now let's show what the lineup would look like after ~60 minutes or so, irrespective of which team has the ball: --------------Pickens--------------- Robinson---CJ------Sega----Conde- ---------Pause----Guerrero-------- ---------------------------------- --Rolfe------Rooney #2--Cuauh-------Mapp--- By this point in the match, the MF has two utterly knackered [and one lazy] components: Rolfe, Blanco, and Mapp. Note the ZIP code of space left vacant in the MF. Space that may be easily exploited by opponents in MLS, leading to goals flooding in from all angles late in matches. Please don't be fooled. Justin Mapp is probably a winger in a 4-3-3, and nothing more. Rolfe has picked up more in ~5 weeks in terms of 2-way responsibilities in the FIRE's system than Mapp has in nearly 4 seasons! For this reason, I wouldn't have a problem with a FIRE MF that includes Rolfe in 2008. [Though I'd rather have him play up front.] IMHO, Justin Mapp would be best served to be traded to another team where his cluelessness without the ball at his foot isn't as big a detriment as it is here. There simply isn't enough room in the lineup for both Blanco and Mapp.