I just read Germany manager Nagelsmann's theory concerning Flo's struggles . He said he speaks to Flo all the time and that each of our 5 attacking players want to be the 'star player', so it is hard on Flo. Is this his opinion based on watching us or from how he interprets their talks?
It's the way we attack, we just walk the ball up and by the time we try to get it to our 9's they are surrounded in the box. We should attack quicker, pass the ball forward and give them a chance to run at or with the center backs. Even Salah used to pass the ball forward with the outside of his foot, ahead of our onrushing attackers. Now we just stand around waiting for the ball, with defenders standing next to them, lol. No one tries to make a run into space, shed their defender to receive a pass. When the forwards do, they are rebuffed for a sideways safer pass or one that takes them away from goal. When was the last time we saw crosses into the box?
Liverpool have contacted referees’ chief to raise concerns about VVD’s disallowed goal in the 3-0 defeat to Man City. Liverpool have told (PGMOL) that they do not accept that the decision was arrived at for subjective reasons. That no elements of the criteria needed to disallow the goal were met
I agree, there been done pretty indifferent stuff since then. I explained it away as winding down but a lot of people did harbour some concerns about Slot’s reluctance to freshen the starting line up and playing the same players even when they looked shattered. 3 points from 18 is not acceptable given the players at our disposal.
To what end? No need crying over spilled milk. If the shoe was on the other foot, we would have welcomed the call. Attention should be focused on how to get the Club back on track, before negativity creeps in.
Laying down a marker. Fair enough. At the same time, 4-0 or 5-0 probably wouldn’t have flattered City (they missed a penalty), so I agree that it’s little more than a box ticking exercise. It’s more with an eye to future decisions. Then again, Sod’s Law is always active, so chances are, when/if there’s a similar situation, we’ll be on the receiving end and the goal will be given.
That would have required analysis of the trajectories of the goalkeeper and the ball, not the trajectory of elucidating the letters in the rules..... Whether or not it would have woken us up as a team yesterday is debatable. Very dull performance after a very good one. Strange.
To the end of some ability to assess stuff for the involvement of actuality.... If that is a shot from outside the box - and Robertson and Donnaruma and the line of approach are the same, then I'm fine with the call, because its conceivable that the keeper makes a great reaching save, but it is not really conceivable that he was going to reach that header. Th ecall depends entirely, of course, on what the idiot making it is attempting to conceive....
Who knows what to believe when you hear attributed quotes from people outside of the team about why certain players aren't performing up to standards. In looking at the games, there are a couple of clear reasons why Wirtz hasn't made more of an impact so far - at least things that I have noticed. First, he's pushed off the ball too often, and he's not always pressing effectively. So he's a bit short on physicality and decisiveness at the moment. He often goes to press but isn't committing all the way, and ends up getting passed around. Second, I think he's not often integrating into the passing schemes (what there are of them) all that well. He seems to be making a lot of runs into open space, but 90% of the time no one passes to him. Whether that is because he's making runs that are unpredictable, or whether teammates don't have confidence in him being able to do anything effective with the ball is hard to know - but it is clear that he's been trying to get into open spaces, but often to no effect. Finally, I think he's holding onto the ball slightly too long before shooting or passing, and this results in passing lanes or shooting space getting closed down. This probably is down to him needing to adjust to a faster, more frenetic pace - but it could also be because other players are not moving in response to his movement and so he's left with no option but to hold the ball longer... You see a lot of the same problems with Kerkez, which makes me wonder if this is a more general issue. Even Ekitike has become less effective as the season moves along. It certainly would make sense if clear instructions are not being given to players about attacking shapes and passing lanes - or if they simply aren't listening to those instructions. What I increasingly am wondering is if players are not being given adequate pre-game instructions about where they should be moving and passing in offensive buildup (and by extension during positioning during defensive transitions). This could go a long way towards explaining the ponderous attacking transition, where we end up simply passing around a set defense (the dreaded D-shaped passing) rather than seeing players make effective half-space runs, give-and-go triangles, and end-arounds... BTW these were all things that were very effectively done to us by ManC yesterday. The upshot of all this is that I increasingly worry that our success last year was mostly due to a slightly less aggressive press, but that passing lanes and overall shape were effectively unchanged from under Klopp and co. But with the wholesale change of players this year that we are seeing the inability of Slot and his team to either come up with an effective gameplan, or alternatively to effectively communicate that to our players. In such a scenario you might expect to start seeing players get a lot more risk-adverse and probably also selfish in their gameplay. This could explain some of the lack of effective interplay between Gakpo, Ekitike, and Salah, and could also explain the lack of cohesion we see in midfield and the aforementioned inability of Wirtz to combine effectively with fellow teammates in the attack or during buildup. I hope this isn't true, but as we continue to see the same problems crop up in game after game it gets harder and harder to not lay this at the feet of ineffective coaching. We know the talent is there - we just aren't seeing it be reflected regularly on the field during games.
Hubba's analysis is pretty insightful, it's hard to read because it is really pointing to ineffective coaching at both the strategic and tactical level as root causes. I assume the front office has to take significant accountability for the selection of smaller players like Frimpong and Wirtz who would face real challenges in the Prem simply because of their size (at least Frimpong has blazing speed). But the apparent coaching shortcomings are the antithesis of the image I have had of Slot, to me a classic detail oriented, meticulous planner and preparer. However, the performances speak for themselves. I'm at a loss at this point for how we get out of this mess.
I hope I'm wrong. But I just am having a hard time figuring out why we've seen such a fall-off from players who have been consistently good over the last 2-3 years (not all of them are aging out), and why we see the same issues over and over. After yesterday, RM and AV look to be more the aberrations than true corrections. Slot is going to have to come up with some dramatically better team play if we are going to see any semblance of reliably good results going forward this year. Maybe they've been working on a different formation... Maybe they've been working on different styles of buildup play and passing schemes, and we just haven't seen them yet. But to my eye, we just keep putting out the same players in basically the same formations, and they are using the same passing schemes in every game. We did see a bit more vertical passing against RM and AV, but that disappeared again vs ManC yesterday. When we did initially attempt it they easily broke up our passing play, and that was it... back to the same old same old. Advance up the extreme flanks (even that wasn't working that well yesterday). We'd generally get bogged down in late offensive transition and then it was back and forth and back again between our CBs, defensively positioned MFs, and FBs - all outside a set low block and no one was moving off the ball that effectively to open up space. At least in preseason we looked to be trying to have an open, creative style through the center of the field - if a bit weighted to the left center. But we were so open on counterattacks that this appears to have been abandoned for more or less what we played last year. But we don't have the players (or it at least doesn't look like it so far) to play that way effectively this year. I get the impression that the plan was to play much higher, and try to overload the low block with quick, incisive central movement - with extremely high FBs providing both overlapping and underlapping runs. But this experiment failed almost immediately and was abandoned - but with no idea what we are supposed to do in its absence... Again, I hope I'm wrong...
I hope the manager and his staff spend the international break coming up with something different. If I was the manager, I would start using Joe Gomez at fullback. Both fullback positions are a disaster right now, and Joe is only 2 seasons removed from being outstanding at both left and right back. Against Frankfurt (with Salah on the bench) we saw a system that looked like it made sense. I would lineup with this type of shape: GK Konate Virgil Gomez Gravenberch Szoboszlai Frimpong Wirtz Gakpo Isak Ekitike Frimpong (or Bradley) starts at right back, but plays high and wide. Gomez starts at left back, but his main job is to stay close to Virgil and prevent counters. We should have signed a left footer for this position instead of Kerketz. Arsenal signed Hincapie when they already had 3 other players just like him. That’s who we should have signed. I would drop Mac Allister because both of the center mids in front of the back 4 need to be athletic and able to cover ground. Gakpo provides the width on the left. The attack runs through the three new signings who are the future of the club. Salah won’t be happy at a sub, but he’s some weapon to have off the bench. Plus, he will soon be leaving for AFCON and we need a plan to play without him. Alternatively you could start Gomez at right back, and play Robertson high and wide on the left. In that scenario, you would drop Gakpo in favor of Salah. GK Gomez Konate Virgil Gravenberch Szoboszlai Salah. Wirtz. Robertson Isak Ekitike In January we should be signing another centerback or even 2. Guehi can play in this Gomez role, but we may just want him to knock Konate out of the team based on current form. I would also like an Arsenal style left back, who is really more of a centerback. We should also be signing a winger who can take on defenders. Somehow we ended up with a squad in which the only player who does that is 17 years old.
Salah being off key seems a good enough reason to play Grav Mac Gakpo Wirtz Szoboslai Isak/Ekiteke This is where Szob played mostly for Leipzig
On reflection, it is stunning that we are having discussions and debates about fundamental team set-up and tactics almost a third of the way through the season. Just stunning.
I was thinking this afternoon- after 5 games, we had 5 wins and a 5 point lead at the top of the table. The general consensus was "we're not playing well, but champions get results despite playing poorly. Just wait until the new signings gel into the squad and we'll be flying." And then the unexplainable happens. If someone would have said we'd get THREE F'N POINTS out of 18, we would have pissed our pants laughing. Then thrown poo at them. Then had them committed. It's beyond shocking. Beyond comprehension. The only good news, is that no team bar Arsenal is playing great. 2nd place through 9th is separated by 4 points. Normally if a team drops 15 out of 18 points, there's no way they can even dream of top 4. But we're 1 point off (so are 4 others). The next 9 league games are games we normally, should be expected to win. Say we go 7w 2d 0l. No, I wasn't sniffing glue today- it's possible! I'm not writing the season off just yet, but Slot needs to figure things out, and it starts in 2 weeks.
I was right there with you after the first five games… I was still there even during the initial part of the next phase. But as you say, how do you take this team and get a result of 3pts out of 18… But almost as importantly, looking consistently bad doing it. I could possibly stomach a bad run if we at least looked like we could win these games, but we haven’t. We’ve been pathetic… almost not worth playing, we’ve been so bad…
Thought I read somewhere that our form, results, etc. is that of Wolves in recent games. Good old Barney Ronay in The Guardian with a well-argued piece. He makes the interesting point that I hadn’t considered, that because Slot will be forced into changes during AFCON with Salah, that’ll be good for the side. As Salah should be dropped anyway but looks as if he’s an untouchable. AFCON, it appears, can’t come quickly enough for us.
Things are not that dire yet, believe it or not, this team has enough talent and desire within to win the CL. They cannot consistently do it week in week out for the PL, but on occassions they can step up for 120 minutes. If we manage to side step PL sides and get to the last eight, then they can and will shock and awe.
Not convinced about our putative prowess in the CL. Much like the PL, clubs have kinda figured us out (Galatasary), though why Real played as they did is a mystery and our victory there owes more to Xabi’s ineptitude, not playing the team in front of him, thinking he was playing last season’s team when we hammered his Leverkusen.
Foden and Silva are 5'7, while Doku is 5'8. The key is adapting to the physicality. It will take an off season geared towards getting stronger, to get the best out of Flo, Kerkez and Jeremie.
When a team is performing poorly the importance of accurately identifying the causes is key especially when that team is the reigning champions. And I think in our case there isn't one simple answer to the question but obviously one big reason is the turnover in players which we had this summer. Out went mature experienced players like Diaz, Nunez ,Tsimikas ,Trent , Kelleher and sadly Diogo and we bought mostly younger less mature guys . Also we let young Quansah go who I regarded as a solid part of the defensive unit . So we replaced 3 def and two replacements Frimpong and Leoni have mostly been injured and Kerkez has shown some erratic form. That along with Ibou's horrible form has made our once steady def look porous to say the least . Imo the def is the foundation of any good team and ours isnt good at the moment. Now at the other end Salah has hit a wall and is a shadow of his past self, Isak's lack of preseason conditioning a further injury has hurt us. We've replaced Diaz with young prospect Rio but the lad isn't able to contribute enough quite yet. With Salah's poor form , Cody's seeming single minded plan of only cutting inside means we don't have forwards who consistently take defenders on 1 v 1. We need some of that (see Doku vs us) . So for me we're wasting Hugo and we will waste Isak too unless we get more support from the wings. As for midf I think in general it remains our strong area but even there Macca has looked off and Wirtz clearly hasn't hit the expected heights yet. so even in our strongest position we have had issues. I think Arne has had some real difficulties trying to sort out so much disfunction in the squad and personally I believe when a team gets as unbalanced as we appear that will only be solved by bolstering the weak areas , strengthening to regain our balance. Despite our big spend we also recouped loads in sales so for me the transition is incomplete and still n progress. We have half Klopp players and half Slot players and Arne may not be able to properly impose his ideas, new system , different style if a number of existing players do not suit the way he wants to play. I think we have to be patient as hard as that is given the expectations at Liverpool but I do believe the changes made and being planned are not just for this season but rather to set up the team for the next 5-10 years . I expect more senior players like Salah, Robbo , Endo ,Gomez and likely others etc to move on in the near future as this new edition continues to evolve and hopefully find some kind of consistent stability.
I'm a half-glass full/empty at present. This team can beat most teams (when awake). We should not have lost to Chelsea/Utd or Brentford. Even playing dully. the problem is clicking into gear for all games lik that and going out and winning them. I think we have the players to manage a winning run - so, I'm holding off as of yet on where we are until the next sequence of games is a few in (hopefully a few wins in) onward/upward... to infinity.... and beyond....