Manager's best XI

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Sexy Beast, Jan 18, 2023.

  1. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Point taken, just I'm wondering if Boateng was that good when he was at his best, as I also fail to see how he received individual accolades given the small amount of games he played too.
    I haven't seen both of them much. Just I have no doubt that Kholer was already one of the Europe's finest at his position at Bayern whilst I doubt about Boateng being at that level. Kohler was an inamovible piece of his teams, Boateng less so. Then there's the 2013 CL title but Bayern missed the opportunity to play the EC '91 final for a few.
     
  2. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    For reference, both have won the "German footballer of the year" and "UEFA Team of the Year" awards once each. On being an "inamovible piece" Boateng was Bayern's most capped UCL player as of 11/12. At UCL 12/13 he got a red card in the group stage and ended up missing 3 games but definitely was the starter
     
  3. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Yeah, that's why I say "point taken" but he's a bit too much of an "on/off player" to my taste, in career (and won some prizes/ inclusions in diverse best 11's for lack of better, maybe).
    I don't completely discard him but think there's a match with Kohler like there are other matchs to make the 11 between brackets for other positions in your selection so Kohler could at least be mentioned).
    But yeah I think that Kohler was a better footballer. At the same time, perhaps I missed something about Boateng (can't remember anything special about him from what I've seen, the few I've seen).
    It's possible my views really are not objective about some post-2010 players, if not earlier.
    I see and recall now that Kohler could also miss some games.
    Then, the technical aspect of their game doesn't even have to be the decisive argument as to know who fits better in the Heynckes 11, just think that Kohler's name could feature in brackets next to Boateng's name (minimum). I mean he's not to be overlooked, especially in front of Boateng who is not Beckenbauer I'd say, who is not untouchable in this 11 imo.

    Then, that's it. I don't even know which one I'd pick now... probably would go for a WM formation.
    There's Sanchis too.
     
  4. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    While we're at it, @PDG1978 :

    Amoros (Wenger's AS Monaco)

    1987/1988 (champions)

    Day #1) ASM - OM : 3-1. RB, 4. 1 possible assist, for a deft shot at the edge of the box, involved in another one by his pressing then kind of a decisive pass for a shot that is deflected before the goal was scored.
    D2) Lens - ASM : 1-3. RB, 5. 1 or 2 assists (1 being a transversal pass for a shot outside of the box, the other a cross for a header).
    D3) ASM - Le Havre : 2-0. LB, 4. Scored the first goal on free-kick (83'), Hoddle add the second with a header (87').
    D4) Montpellier - ASM : 2-1. LB, 4.
    D5) ASM - Toulouse, 5-1. RB, 4. Scored the second goal (31') lobbing Bergeroo in a face-to-face.
    D6) the link is broken. PSG - ASM : 0-1. Hateley scored.
    D7) ASM - Niort : 1-3. RB, 2. Scored on pk for the 1-1. Monaco still are the leaders in the league, though.
    D8) ASM - Laval : 2-0. RB, 4. 1 assist from ck for a header by Hateley (who scored the 2 goals of the game). Amoros also "outflanked the defense at the 41'".
    D9) Cannes - ASM : 1-1. LB, 3. 1 yellow card.
    D10) ASM - Bordeaux, 1-0. LB, 4. Served Hateley ideally for a diving header that was not conclusive. Missed a pk for a foul on Hateley. Hateley wins another pk and takes it himself this time for the lone goal of the game.
    D11) Toulon - Monaco, 0-0. Did not play.
    D12) ASM - Lille : 1-0. LB, 4. 1 face-to-face with Lama who "is constrained to release the ball twice". "Masterful save by Lama against Mège at close range, who had been launched by Amoros".
    D13) Brest - ASM : 0-2. RB, 3. Scored the second goal en force, from the pk spot (84').
    D14) ASM - St.-Etienne : 2-1. RB, 4. Scored the opener on pk.
    D15) Matra Rcg - ASM : 1-0. RB, 4.
    D16) Monaco - Nantes : 2-1. LB, 4. 1 assist in the depth for the 2-0. Mo Johnston then makes it 2-1.
    D17) Nice - Monaco : 0-0. RB, 2.
    D18) ASM - Metz, 2-1. RB, 3.
    D19) Auxerre - ASM, 0-0. LB with 3 CB's or MF in a 4-4-2 ? 3. 1 yellow card. The game is rated 10 out of 20.
    D20) ASM - Lens : 3-0. RB, 3. Game rating : 10 out of 20 as well.
    D21) Le Havre - ASM, 0-0. RB, 4.
    D22) Montpellier - ASM, 0-0. LB, 3.
    D23) Toulouse - ASM : 1-1. RB, 4.
    D24) ASM - PSG : 2-1. LB, 4. 1 assist to Ferradge. 1 pk won, transformed by Mège. 2-0 then 2-1.
    D25) Niort - ASM : 0-0. LB, 3.
    D26) Laval - ASM : 0-0. LB, 4. Mérelle (Niort GK) deflects a free-kick shot by Amoros with the fist.
    D27) ASM - Cannes : 4-1. LB, 2.
    D28) Bordeaux - ASM : 3-1. RB, 4.
    D29) ASM - Toulon, 0-0. LB, 4.
    D30) Lille - ASM, 0-1. LB, 3.
    D31) ASM - Brest : 2-0. LB, 3.
    D32) St.-Etienne - ASM : 3-0. LB, 3. 1 yellow card.
    D33) ASM - Matra Rcg : 3-0. LB, 4. The referre did not call a pty for a handball whilst Amoros penetrated the box.
    D34) Nantes - ASM : 1-0. LB, 3.
    D35) ASM - Nice : 1-0. RB, 3. 29' : breakaway and powerful shot by Amoros that Matriciano stops not without difficulties".
    D36) Metz - ASM : 2-2. LB, 4. 68' : "superb 22 meters shot by Amoros from free-kick", goal. 88' : "the match point is missed by Amoros, ideally served by Sonor".
    D37) ASM - Auxerre: 3-2. LB, 4.
    D38) OM - ASM : 2-0. LB, 3.

    37 games played (in full), 6 goals (2 fk's, 3 pk's, 1 deft ball in a face-to-face with the GK), 9 assists (in the final ranking, there are less to be detected in the games reports). 3 yellow cards.

    Average rating : 126:36 = 3,50.
    RB (15 times) : 4, 5, 4, 2, 4, 3, 4, 4, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 3. Average rating : 53:15 = 3,53.
    LB (20 times) : 4, 4, 3, 4, 4, 4, 3, 4, 4, 2, 4, 3, 3, 3, 4, 3, 4, 3, 4, 3. Average rating : 70:20 = 3,50.
    "WB" or MF (sometimes it looks like it's quite easy to know sometimes not at all... once, in Auxerre) : 3. The back-4 is credible but then it's impossible to guess his exact position at midfield, especially since Hoddle did not play. I'd tend to think Métais played as DM instead of Dib (who's missing too), Rohr at his usal position on the right, Mège displaced from the left to the centre instead of Hoddle and Amoros at LM but why not Rohr instead of Hoddle and Amoros on the right or Métais anywhere but at DM so that would be Amoros here? At this time, there are some inconsistencies or innacuracies in the ordering of the players as to know if it's "flat" from right to left, left to right or a diamond starting with its base, or 2 by 2 in a 4-2-2-2, by column or firstly by naming the 2 "DM's", secondly the 2 "AM's".
    Possibly it was sort of a hybrid thing too, workable enough in order to have different possible organizations during the game anyway.
    So, yes, it can be either a 4-4-2 with Salomon and Sonor respectively as RB and LB and Amoros at midfield or a 3-CB's setup Salomon-Vogel-Battiston with Sonor and Amoros as "WB's", both on either the right or the left side. Battiston not being listed in the middle of the possible three-man central defense would lead us to think it was a 4-4-2 but we never know; on this one it could have been Vogel as the "libero" within the three, although in a 4-4-2, he played alongside Battiston more as the stopper, in theory. Vogel was more renowned for his physique than for his technique, was good in the air... well, why not, for this match in particular?

    So the PSG away game report's link is broken and here's a video and here's the lineup but that doesn't help to know who played where, as I came across too much possibilities while checking the 38 match reports (and the previous and next seasons). And once Sonor comes in for Ferratge, the team possibly has been remodeled and Amoros and/ or others possibly played another position for the remaining twelve minutes. How they played there is even a deeper mystery than in the Auxerre game.
    I'd put a coin on LM in a 4-4-2 in Auxerre (with just Mège moving from LM to Hoddle's #10 position and with an Auxerre team, it's not clear either, which was probably probably playing a sort of 4-4-2 or "4-2-4" given the nature of the players although they must have had defensive duties... 0-0, 10 out of 20) but won't risk anything on this one game in Paris.

    Here it is for part 1/2.
     
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  5. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    ... or Auxerre played their more usual 4-3-3 with Cocard, usually a RW/ FWD at midfield (he's curiously listed as a MF in a pre-season thing but why not if it says so). So i won't bet on that one either.
     
  6. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This is my take on Fergie's all-time XI:

    Fergie XI.png

    I remember Fergie mentioning that Irwin would be the first name on his all-time XI teamsheet, so I've happily included him in here. I rate Evra more highly than Neville so I've shifted Irwin to the right where he was a natural at before moving to the left to accommodate young Neville.

    The name I had the most trouble leaving out was Bryan Robson. Everyone associated with the club holds him in the highest regards, including Fergie himself. However, I feel that Robson's best years were already behind him by the time Fergie arrived in Manchester in 1986. I would have no problem naming Robson ahead of Scholes in a Man Utd XI, but for Fergie's, I think Scholes gets in ahead.

    Stam is another one I was seriously considering, and on peak alone, he would be in. I feel that with just three seasons under his belt, it was a bit lacking in sheer number of games, especially as he had his injury problems in the 3rd season. On that note, I was considering between Pallister or Vidic, and I feel the latter comes out on top quite comfortably.
     
  7. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Here's a personal favourite of mine, Hiddink's XI:
    Hiddink XI.png

    It was not an easy one to do, as he moved around a lot. Unsurprisingly, the team is mainly made up of the players from the two PSV teams that he had the most success with. They make up 7 of the 11. J.S. Park gets a special inclusion for his success with both PSV and S. Korea.

    I'm not sure if Bergkamp and de Boer are the right decisions as they only had a short stint. I wanted to include players from every "success" Hiddink had and I think both did enough during Hiddink's first run as Netherlands manager to be included here. An alternative to de Boer that I was considering was Yuri Zhirkov.

    On that note, I wanted to include Arshavin for his performances for Russia under Hiddink. His EURO2008 performances were maybe the best anyone had under a Hiddink's NT.

    Lastly, Terry was chosen as the Chelsea rep. His first caretaker stint for Chelsea was quite successful. He was very fond of his FA Cup success and his team came closer than anyone to knocking out the legendary Pep's Barcelona that year. Terry lobbied him to be signed on permanently, and his dressing room leadership was vital to bringing the team together under Hiddink during a difficult time.
     
  8. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Zagallo is a fun one:
    Zagallo XI.png

    With Zagallo, I think the key is to be careful not to pick too many of the 1994 WC stars as he was only an assistant manager. So his team is more a combination of the 1970 WC squad and his 1997 Copa America & Confederations Cup victories, with 1998 WC final loss as an additional consideration.

    I went with Taffarel because he was the starting GK at all the major tournaments in 1997 and 1998.

    Central defense was a bit tricky. Aldair probably deserves his inclusion. Piazza, for more than just winning in 1970, he was also chosen as captain (under Zagallo) in 1974 as well.

    Chose C. Alberto over Cafu because he actually won the World Cup, which is better than Copa America and Confed Cup, and was captain of the 1970 team.

    Dunga was an easy choice, but I'm not sure if Mauro Silva was the right choice. Copa America 1997 was his only standout achievement under Zagallo. Gerson is probably the better choice, as I think he also had a club career with Zagallo, but I made the tactical choice to pick a more defensive player. I wonder if Clodaldo may have been the better option though.

    Pele and Jairzinho were easy choices for me. Pele mainly for his 1970 WC Golden Ball performance. Jairzinho has that and more, as Zagallo was also his manager at Botafogo where he won many titles. This meant leaving out Rivelino, which was a difficult decision.

    Ronaldo was another easy decision as he was Copa America MVP, Confed Cup Bronze Boot, and of course, WC Golden Ball winner, all under Zagallo. Romario gets in mainly for his Copa American and Confed Cup wins, the latter he won Silver Ball and Golden Boot.

    On that subject, the young Denilson actually won Confed Cup Golden Ball under Zagallo, but that's not enough to overtake Pele, let alone Jairzinho.
     
  9. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Del Bosque is another fun one, although there were some decisions I'm not sure about at all:
    Del Bosque.png

    I thought about Puyol, but with only one tournament under Del Bosque, I felt Hierro is more deserving.

    The midfield was stacked, unsurprisingly. I wanted to include Fabregas, but couldn't justify it. Xabi Alonso was a name I found very difficult to leave out, but Busquets, Xavi, and Zidane have that midfield locked down. Even Iniesta had to be moved out to the flank.

    I wanted to include Villa as well, but 2010 was his only standout tournament for Del Bosque. So he was in a similar, but slightly better position than Puyol. Not enough to ever really contend with Raul though.
     
  10. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Mourinho named his all-time XI before, and it's a difficult one to argue against:

    [​IMG]

    I thought maybe Sneijder would be a consideration over Ozil, but the Dutchman didn't play enough games under him to qualify, I think.
     
  11. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think what you say about Robson makes sense (albeit Guerin Sportivo put him in their 1987 calendar year XI I, like I posted yesterday on IceBlood's thread), and Stam/Vidic I guess too (like I implied I wouldn't necessarily feel the same as you on Vidic/Pallister but not sure whether that's a stylistic preference difference, you only knowing relatively older Pallister, me being nostalgic lol or what - I feel both could be got past by brilliant and/or speedy players at times though I think Vidic was a bit more tenacious and hard to shake/evade in close battles around the area...however Pallister was a bit quicker, with long legs to make recovery tackles well, and better on the ball in terms of bringing it forwards...and possibly a better scorer with shots and/or headers too although that wouldn't be the deal breaker as such I think).

    On Irwin though, he's one of those right footers who did do better and seem more at home on the left I'd say (just for info: I'm not invalidating your call, and understand it), even though initially he did play quite a bit at RB.
     
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  12. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I know it's been a controversial one, but here's my take on Ancelotti's XI:
    Ancelotti XI.png

    Unsurprisingly, the team is filled with his Milan and Madrid players. I wanted to include a Chelsea player as his League/FA double in 09-10 was very impressive, and the team played some of the most entertaining football of the Roman era. If I had to choose, I would probably have gone with Frank Lampard actually.

    Wanted to use the X-mas tree formation simply because Ancelotti is so associated with it. Funnily enough, I think he used the diamond formation maybe even more often, including at Chelsea.

    Did is obviously not the best, but he was chosen because he spent many good seasons under Ancelotti.

    Nesta was an easy choice, and so was Ramos to me. His header in the 2014 UCL final alone made him an easy inclusion.

    I'm actually not sure at all about Cafu. He didn't actually have too many games under Ancelotti despite spending quite some time in Milan, due to being at an older age and also had some injury troubles.

    Also not sure about Maldini's position, as he was more of a CB under Ancelotti. However, it's the only way to fit all of Maldini, Nesta, and Ramos.

    I'm very comfortable with the midfield trio. Pirlo is the iconic player of the Milan team, rightly so or not, and Seedorf was an excellent performer for Ancelotti's entire time there. Modric delivered for Ancelotti during both of his UCL wins with Madrid.

    Kaka and Ronaldo are pretty obvious picks.

    The controversial one is probably Benzema. I will admit that Shevchenko was easily the best striker under Ancelotti, but it's not quite as clear cut as I thought. A couple of Sheva's best seasons came before Ancelotti arrived, and Sheva's first couple seasons under Ancelotti had its troubles, for sure.

    There is something to be said for Benzema as part of two UCL-winning teams, playing two different roles. I don't think Benzema of 21-22 is too far behind Sheva 03-04, especially once you take into account his UCL campaign. Remember that Madrid of 14-15 scored a record amount of goals, and I think Benzema's facilitative role played a part in that.

    The front three was always going to be made up of three Ballon d'Or winners. In this case, I think it makes sense to pick a striker who might be better for Kaka and Ronaldo, than the straight up outright better player.
     
  13. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Don't you think Di Maria was a better player under Mourinho than Hazard? I think I could even put Di Maria and Hazard on the wings, Özil as #10 and Cristiano as #9. About Sneijder I don't think he compares to Özil. In the great season of Sneijder's life he had 15 assists. In the same season Özil had 29.
     
  14. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Hazard was the best player in the EPL under Mourinho, and I think more naturally talented than Di Maria anyway. Although, there are rumors he was part of the cliques that pushed out Mourinho.

    I wouldn't drop Drogba either. There's a reason Drogba was a favourite of his.

    Sneijder claim to fame was different to Ozil anyway. I don't think Ozil would have 29 assists playing for Jose Inter Milan, for example. Sneijder would fit the defensive identity though.

    As I said, in the end, I think it's hard to argue what he's picked.
     
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  15. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I don't think Hazard would be the best player in a league with Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. Much less playing on the same team as Ronaldo. Even Neymar failed to be the best player in LaLiga.

    I think the best version of Drogba came later with Ancelotti in 09/10 (and he was left out of your list of Ancelotti's best XI). The 06/07 version is considerably inferior.

    Still, I don't think Sneijder playing in Özil's place at Real Madrid would be close to 30 assists.

    But I recognize that it is difficult to argue. Mourinho has always played with great players.
     
  16. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I also consider Marcelo a much better player than Cole. And Casillas is a better goalkeeper than Petr Cech. Maybe Pepe instead of Carvalho too
     
  17. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm not saying that Hazard would be the best in La Liga, but I don't think Di Maria would be the best player in the mid-2010s EPL either.

    Jose loved Drogba since before he was at Chelsea

     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    How many more Oranje players are you going to bash down? I didn't comment to you previously but they are uncountable now (this ingrained sentiment is the origin of all those The Athletic et al. hitjobs).

    Sneijder was clearly better as Ozil in the 2010 and 2014 World Cup, and arguably also at euro 2012 (per WhoScored at least).

    Ozil was in the end (just as Sneijder) let go by Real Madrid, after which their golden period started. He was correctly regarded as someone who needed to go (and it wasn't tied to a presidential change).

    The difference is a fit Sneijder was defensively a very good and important player.

    That being said, Deco at his best was perhaps an even better player (even if the goals and assists stats do not show this).

    https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/28/chelsea-jose-mourinho-eden-hazard-no10-tottenham
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...ere-better-at-number-10-than-Eden-Hazard.html

    https://www.vi.nl/nieuws/mourinho-sneijder-nog-een-van-de-allerbesten

     
  19. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It's not really about who's better though. Otherwise, Sergio Ramos would probably be in too. Jose loves his tough rugged defender so it's understandable why he likes Cole. I think in a previous version, he had Gallas at LB?

    Keep in mind that the Cech-Terry-Carvalho were record-setting defense in his back-to-back title. Jose loves these leaders. Carvalho in particular, won everything with him back in Porto, then brought over to win more at Chelsea.
     
  20. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Di Maria provided 26 assists in his first season under Mourinho. He had a goal involvement very close to Hazard in 14/15 but with a higher % contribution. He was a considerably superior playmaker to Hazard and never had a team playing around him.

    In the thread "goal contribution of the best players" you can see that Benzema in 12/13 had a % contribution higher than Drogba in his best season under Mourinho (06/07) that's not being the main goalscorer of the team. He made a season with 20+ goals and 20+ assists.
     
  21. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I don't want you to see me as a xenophobe or anything like that. I have nothing against the Dutch and I apologize if I made it sound like that with my words. I'm analyzing it in the coldest way possible. I didn't understand your point about WhoScored because both in the 2014 cup and in the 2012 euro Özil had a higher score than Sneijder. Certainly Sneijder had a better cup in 2010. For me, Sneijder would at least have been in the top 3 of the Ballon d'Or that year as he won the treble with Inter and led Netherlands to the final. To be fair, a season before he left for Real Madrid, Özil already had 20+ assists in a season so I don't think he is a product of Real Madrid. Don't you think it's fair to say that a player who has 20+ assists for 5 consecutive seasons is better than Sneijder?
     
  22. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Ah yes, then it was my misinterpretation. I thought that was his best XI under Mourinho. But as you just explained, "It's not really about who's better".
     
  23. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yeah, but you're looking at it from a fan's perspective. Trying to figure out who played better under him using numbers that have a million variables. For this exercise, try and look at it from the manager's view.

    To you, because Di Maria provided more assists without having a team built around him, he is a better playmaker than Hazard. To Mourinho, Hazard was the main offensive star of his title-winning team. Di Maria never mattered to Mourinho as much as Hazard did.

    Similarly with Benzema. What matters to managers goes far beyond the numbers. Madrid functioned under Jose even without Benzema. Mourinho always viewed Drogba as far more important to Chelsea than Benzema ever was to his Madrid teams.
     
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  24. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I got It. In that case, do you think Ashley Cole was a more essential part of Chelsea's collective functioning than Marcelo was for Real Madrid?
     
  25. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think it's important to understand Cole's significance to Mourinho. When he first came in, he won with Gallas at LB. It was a makeshift decision.

    He always wanted a natural LB, but neither Bridge nor Del Horno was able to give his team the defensive prowess of Gallas and better offensive thrust.

    It wasn't until Cole that he finally had a two way impact LB. Keep in mind that Cole has proven himself at both end. He was part of the Arsenal Invincibles, playing the best football in the league, and he matched up about as well as anyone did against some of the greatest wingers in the world, such as Ronaldo. Cole would go on to be a key player for Chelsea, including some key battles with Ronaldo and Messi. I think Jose always wished his wingback could defend like Cole, so he holds significant emotional value to him.
     

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