I think it's much more difficult to get into the ESM team of the month in the guardiola era than in 06/07 because the competition was much greater. We're talking about the peak of Xavi, Xabi Alonso, Özil, etc... It would be the same as Drogba competing with the peak of Suarez, Lewandowski, etc... Drogba 06/07 (best season with Mourinho) 60 games, 33 goals Benzema 11/12 (best season with Mourinho) 52 games, 32 goals Drogba 09/10 (best season with Ancelotti) 44 games, 37 goals Benzema 21/22 (best season with Ancelotti) 46 games, 44 goals Do you really think Drogba's peak is higher than Benzema's? Benzema with Ronaldo's penalties would be viewed entirely different in this generation.
Come on. Thats crazy take. Drogba also has overall 5 ESMs throughout 5 seasons (2004/5, 2005/6, 2006/7, 2007/8, 2008/9) While as you said, Iniesta in 4 seasons has 6. Thats based on those criteria.. but since when is ESM a goal standard for evaluating players? His 3rd best goal tally of the epl season is 12. In 9 premier league seasons he scored 104 goals in 254 games.. even if all goals were non penalty goals thats 0.41 non penalty goals per game. For a striker whose all around game is not strong at all, thats not impressive. Benzema is better than Drogba in all aspects: consistency, longevity, peak, form, big games (yes!), all around contribution on the field, primarily attacking option, supporting cast, international football, career outside Real / Chelsea.. during his time with Ancelotti and under different managers. The only aspect of the game in which Drogba is better is heading. Thats about it. And Lewa is better than any striker Ancelotti had albeit he managed him for only one season and tactically I believe he is not compatible with Cristiano who is a must pick so Benzema is the only logical pick to accompany Cristiano in the Ancelottis best XI attack.
Shevchenko was seriously compared to peak Ronaldo Nazario (not necessarily as an equal) at one time. Perhaps based on pre-Ancelotti Milan form and/or Dynamo Kyiv form moreso, but whether in the mid 00s, or shortly after Ancelotti went to Milan, I think he was showing enough to put him as a good option (whether Ancelotti himself even agrees or not, I'd put him in an Ancelotti XI I tend to think). 'White Ronaldo' was the nickname. An ode to peak Andriy Shevchenko at Milan and his 2001 stunner v Juve (planetfootball.com)
There is no way you could watch Drogba at the peak of his career and can come to that conclusion. His main value was in his non-goalscoring aspects actually.
Making an attempt for a Claudio Ranieri XI: Francesco Toldo; Ciro Ferrara, Laurent Blanc, Marcel Desailly, Javier Zanetti; N'Golo Kante; Riyad Mahrez, Rui Costa, Pavel Nedved, Brian Laudrup; Gabriel Batistuta
Benzema required 7 penalties to score 27 league goals in la liga 2021/22 which is highest scoring season to date To me that is a joke in all honesty And he also missed 4 penalties He didn't win a single one of those penalties either because of course he was an inept dribbler with one highlight reel dribble to represent his career That was vinicius Jrs job 5 - @realmadriden's Vinícius Júnior 🇧🇷 has won five penalties this season in all competitions, more than any other LaLiga player in 2021/22. Unstoppable. pic.twitter.com/mjdhqVEvHj— OptaJose (@OptaJose) March 14, 2022
I might be misremembering but he was no Zlatan Ibrhaimović Do you have some game from top of your mind that would suggest that?
Shevchenco is the CF of ancelottis team and it's not even a debate for me I am the opposite of you championing modern day players above classical ones I did that in favour of Neymar over luis figo I even argued for Luis Suarez 13/14 being as good as peak Ronaldo nazario against the bottom 10 teams of the league table But there is no case for benz over Shevchenco And the peak of Drogba in domestic league football is demonstrably greater than Benzema Didier Drogba: Was the highest rated player (8.32) in the 2009/10 PL season with 29 goals & 10 assists #cfc #TBT pic.twitter.com/yslkVRCgbn— WhoScored.com (@WhoScored) January 7, 2016 I dont think sexy beast appreciates how legendary and unique this is It is the second highest rated premier league season since 2010 The peaks of Salah,hazard,De bruyne,aguero etc are well below this Drogba didn't require a single penalty for this either Its one of the biggest tragedies that iniesta fraudulently made the 2010 podium because 2009/10 witnessed at least 5 all time legendary seasons Messi Ronaldo Robben Fabregas Drogba Sneidjer
https://www.transfermarkt.com/rcd-espanyol-barcelona_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/2594497 https://www.transfermarkt.com/valencia-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/2594642 https://www.transfermarkt.com/real-madrid_deportivo-de-la-coruna/index/spielbericht/2594652 Cristiano assisted 3 of those goals Subtracting Cristianos assists he scored 21 non penalty goals in 2015/16 And 20 non penalty goals without Cristiano in the team So his ceiling is 20~ non penalty goals Hes a Normal guy
So by your logic. Drogba scored 28 non penalty goals in 32 games in 2010. Only 2 ESMs that season. Chelsea scored 102 goals In 2008, 22 year old Ronaldo, winger scored 27 non penalty goals in 34 apps. 7 ESMs United scored 80 that season. 2010 is one of for Drogba, like 2018 for Salah, but you would not put Salah in any serious conversation. A great season, but not something unheard of and its clrarly an exception to his career. I said nothing on Shevchenko. Its interesting convo on hwo would he fit with cristiano
Cristiano was obviously alot more then those 27 non penalty goals In the same way Drogba was alot more than those 29 non penalty goals You have the wrong image in your head of Drogba for some reason And his peak in ligue 1 is a higher tier as Benzema for lyon 🇨🇮 Congratulations, @didierdrogba !The former @OM_English and @EAGuingamp striker has been voted by you, the fans, as Ligue 1's top striker of the last 20 years! 👑 pic.twitter.com/DDRaViOOjW— Ligue 1 English (@Ligue1_ENG) May 9, 2020
I can agree that on a domestic level Drogba was superior to Benzema (the difference is not that big). But at European level, Benzema is ahead of Drogba. And for a lot. Benzema on 21/22 scored 10 goals in the knockout stage. Something we only saw with Cristiano (on a bigger level) in 16/17. He destroyed PSG, Chelsea and City while Drogba in 09/10 failed to score or assist against Inter. In both games. I think both were close at league level and Benzema MUCH better in the UCL. So overall benzema peak remains higher than Drogba's under Ancelotti
Drogba is not even 20 non penalty goals a season. 9 seasons in epl, 6 seasons with 25+ games. Reached it twice. 3rd best goal tally is 12. In the span of his prime (2006/07-2009/10): 60 non penalty goals, 111 apps. Torres in 4 seasons with Liverpool, once played more than 25 games and his 3rd best goal tally is 14. (2007/08-2010/11) During his time in Liverpool Torres had: 65 non-pen goals in 102 games. The same rate as prime Drogba that encompases basically his only 2 (statiscally significant) great seasons in epl.. so you would argue Torres in Liverpool is an at the level of Drogba and ballon d'Or winner Benzema? Should I bring Van Persie, Rooney, Cristiano, Henry, etc. stats? (I am saying this to counter the predictable argument that "it was much harder to score in epl back then". It's clearly not some all time impressive stats by Drogba relatively to the time.). Statistically, Drogba has only one impressive season, 2010. In terms of averages, he doesn't stand out from the sea of good strikers and attackers in epl at the time, let alone the whole Europe. So Drogba wasn't an exceptional goalscorer and stats don't go in his favor. Cool. Perhaps he is much more than stats.. I don't remember him as such, but let's go there. If he doesn't have much to offer or stands out all around against comparable attackers, there is really nothing to argue for here, except for hazy concepts like big game player, mentality, leadership, etc. There are countless players like Drogba that come and go and do few impressive things that through certain lens can be viewed as something that nobody has ever done.
but Drogba scored a goal in ucl final. That's bigger than sustained impact on the big stage throughout a decade.
Fernando Torres in his 18~month prime was 100% a more devastating player then any version of Benzema ever
What about Van Persie? Rooney in his prime? Also better? Peak peak Van Nistelrooy is surely better than Benzema as well? He was deadily Such a shame that football world doesn't have great strikers for the last 10 years. French Ronaldo Nazario Torres has 10 non penalty goals in 36 games in la liga 2006/07 prior to joining Liverpool. season prior to that one he also had 10 goals in 36 games. Joins Liverpool and scores 24 non penalty goals in 34 games... continued smashing the average in the next 3 years and as 26 year old joining Chelsea, becomes bellow average goalscorer for the rest of his career (That's an all time great?) just to make it clear that epl in late 2000s wasn't Serie A in 80s in terms of the difficulty in scoring goals. It's just that it lacked all time goalscorers.
Weren't we comparing Drogba 09/10 with Benzema 21/22? Because if you look at other seasons, then Benzema also had a better final in 2018 than Drogba in 2012.
The late 2000s premier league had infinitely greater goalscorers than Serie A 1980-1987 Fernando Torres 07/08 is a better striker than any Serie A striker of that time and he would outscore Michel Platini in domestic league football with his eyes shut Chelsea took treble Barcelona to the wire in 08/09 Without overbo it could've gone either way Liverpool emasculated real Madrid in the 08/09 CL round of 16 5-0 Arsenal destroyed Villarreal in the 2008/09 CL round 16 4-1 Liverpool knocked out Barcelona of the 2006/07 CL R16 Manchester United knocked out Barcelona out of the 2007/08 CL SF Chelsea knocked out Valencia out of the 2006/07 CL QF The only standout team from la liga in the very late 2000s was Barcelona Otherwise that league was catastrophically rubbish You are just in a dream world if you think Serie A 1980-1987 produced anywhere near these results
Yeah, I don't want to get into any argument with Sexy Beast by taking sides or anything, after the Argentina World Cup argument we had (I noticed he repped my Ranieri post actually and appreciate that: on that note I need to adjust that so see below*), but I know Drogba was certainly very hard to handle in 2009/10 for Premier League defences, and had an effective spell in 2006/07 too for example, and it's true he was a bit of a prodigy already in France I think (maybe even a bit more of an individualist on the ball as compared to at Chelsea somehow?). In terms of 'hard to handle' he probably would be above Benzema, but maybe Benzema does have a bit more class as a player/scorer. I don't have a clear/strong opinion about it anyway really, either way. Drogba did assist quite a few Lampard goals I think, although perhaps as a pure passer it'd be true Benzema has the edge (I'm not the best one to compare them anyway I think, especially while I'm still due to catch up on Benzema's 21/22 performances in a bit more detail). I think with the Ballon d'Or still being in essence a calendar year award that's probably how Iniesta got into the mix (along with general rep, and the World Cup where he was more key/involved/excellent in general than Fabregas of course, albeit Fabregas assisted him at the final moment obviously!). I think it's right that 2009/10 was not as good for him overall as 2008/09 or 2010/11 either side isn't it though, and yeah although end product isn't everything I'd think in league football if the Fabregas/Iniesta comparison was made for the whole season it could well be that Fabregas had a better one. At that point the main guide for seasons as opposed to calendar years was probably the UEFA Club Footballer awards (aside from ESM nominations): Sneijder indeed won the Midfielder of the Year (meaning 2009/10 season) indeed. Xavi was the 2010 World Soccer Player of the Year of course, maybe for a mixture of 2009/10 season and overall 2010 calendar year, but there were various possible avenues to go with that year/season I suppose - Messi's overall body of performances/stats, Milito the Inter striker being clutch and generally doing well etc.... *Yeah, so on the Ranieri XI - Brian Laudrup had left Fiorentina when he went there, so I guess I could bring in perhaps a slightly pre-peak Lampard or slightly post-peak Sneijder, and move Nedved to the left, or put Zola or Juninho Paulista on the left, or behind Batistuta to end with a 4-1-3-1-1 - or Juninho Paulista in the middle with Rui Costa in the 4-5-1 type system I used before...though maybe I'd lean to Zola, possibly more for the Napoli period albeit he did have a particularly good final spell at Chelsea under Ranieri - Ranieri wasnt his manager in 96/97 or at Parma either though of course). Maybe I should have put Buffon in rather than Toldo in goal even too: because it might be the call either way (considering only time with Ranieri as manager or not), since Toldo probably was a bit off his peak when Ranieri was his manager at Fiorentina, and Buffon did continue to do well through most of his career.
All of them have arguments Van persie during his last season At arsenal is a higher calibre player then any version of Benzema IMO With Ruud van nistelrooy you are comparing two different types of strikers but Ruud was ********ing deadly in his zone I dont care if he did this once Benzema could never create goals for himself from these types of positions Never ever not even once If I should be completely honest The First two seasons of Ruud van nistelrooy at Manchester United were probably the most devastating a striker has ever been in England this century I dont consider thierry Henry a striker for me he is a forward And so is Luis Suarez in his 2013/14 guise
Unfortunately, he had so many good games against us, you could pick almost any game, one of the worst ones being his performance in 2007 League Cup final. In fact, he was very much a big game player. Not just in terms of finals, which he was usually excellent at, but also in his battles against Rio/Vidic or in the UCL ties against Bayern or Barcelona.