Maybe it´s about a time for this, finally. Could be Grant´s departure is inevitable and already we´ve got two candidates, Hughton and Big Sam. Both popular among the players although being totally different kind of men. The first attracts me being a nice guy and the other being a man tough enough to bring back the fighting spirit style Hammers (remember Dicksy, Martin etc.). Also, when I remember Bolton with Big Sam, it wasn´t always just long ball. When I think about the owners I could imagine Sam getting along better with them than Hughton in a long run. Hughton would be my favourite if I had to choose between these two but I don´t see Sam totally impossible either. Comments?
I don't mind Grant and i don't think it's totally his fault with the situation we are in. The players are the ones playing poorly, and it could be Grant's tactics that isn't helping them. I don't know. Plus the money situation never helps where we might have to sell players. But We aren't really playing that badly. Sunderland wasn't that bad, we didn't have enough in the final third. And the same against Man City, but it was Man City at the end of the day. They have great players. We have been playing well at times and we are improving. Teams always have good and bad spells. But when we get a win or draw (Wigan for expample) we don't seem to push on from that and climb up the table. So that's when you have to look at another manager. A few weeks ago there wasn't any managers that could replace Grant but now Hughton and Big Sam are without jobs, they could be decent replacements. I'd prefer Big Sam though. He has more experience. So i wouldn't mind him coming in. If he wanted the job that is. He might say know if offerd. If we were to change managers then i think it should be in January. There are some close games around christmas time so it might not help the players. I wouldn't complain if it happend in Jan though. A change of manager could give the players a kick up the arse and make them sort out their form, but it might go the opposite way. Obviously if the other teams in 19th and 18th get too far in front then they'll have no choice but to sack Grant, but hopefully with the Jan transfer window the squad can improve.
Seems we have the same problem than Chelsea right now - after not getting points we just sit too deep. That old confidence thing. Probably changing manager and bringing somebody tough in could improve things, get things rolling to opposite direction. Maybe, I don´t know, just don´t. But what I´m slowly getting to know is maybe Grant isn´t the man to do that although You´re right, we´ve not been playing poorly. Don´t know about Big Sam either, being that popular hate figure among the romantics but still, slowly I`m getting to feel he could be the solution. Also, his interest in Bentley and Roque before getting the sack gives me impression him looking at right directions when trying to improve Bburns squad. So, seems there´s not much I DO know...
its hard to imagine us not looking for a new manager soon, you can only keep saying we are optimistic and we are playing well for so long. and then its time to admit that your obviously not playing well and something has to changer if we are playing so well, why do we keep losing... all the short articles and interviews are getting real old
I agree. I think Grant can still change things but he just has to go if we don't improve by mid-late Jan, unless we get even worse by then, as we are bound to see a changed squad. Sullivan and Gold will have no choice but to get rid of Grant. I think they have one eye on Big Sam and if won't hesitate to try and get him as manager. Although i hope he doesn't try to get Roque Santa Cruz. He'll want alot of money and he is always injured. And he is overrated. He had one good season at Blackburn. But i'd be happy for him to change my mind if he did arrive at West Ham.
I can't quite believe the support for Big Sam amongst West Ham fans. For years we accused him of boring, route one football with spoiling tactics and we were right. Because that is what he does. If we hired Fat Sam I would pretty much give up on our season and hope we do get relegated in the hope that would get him sacked as well. He built Bolton up from nothing. He taught them to punch, kick, chase every loose ball before punching and kicking some more. Sweep the ball into the net by hook or by crook and then defend the 1-0 lead for the rest of the game with eleven men behind the ball. Sorry folk but if that is what you want to see each week then you are supporting the wrong team. It may rescue our season but it is not what we want to see going forward from there. He went to Newcastle and was always a square peg in a round hole. Having spoken to a few Newcastle fans I can confirm that they never wanted his style of play there either. What's more it didn't work. His style of play didn't produce the desired results and he invited the chants "you don't know what you're doing" from the fans. We all know how it ended. Then at Blackburn he done very little to attract us. They currently sit 13th with eight defeats. Only one less than us at bottom. We all know his style and for years we have criticised it and see it fail at other clubs who try to play football well. Bolton, Blackburn or even Liverpool he belongs at. Newcastle or West Ham? No way. A better option would be for Liverpool to hire Fat Sam and for us to hire Hodgson.
I agree with what your saying, i'm not a massive fan of him myself. I don't really like him, he thinks he should be England manager when really he shouldn't. But he is the type of manager that could get us out of relegation trouble. I think anyway, you never know until he actually became manager. He is a good manager though. He has the fight of a relegation battle and could get the players to have that fight in them. His style of play is boot the ball up field but West Ham don't play like that, and the players we have don't play like that. He could change it, and to be fair that style works when your down the bottom, but then again he might not. Sullivan and Gold are West Ham fans and probably won't let him do that. It didn't work for him at Newcastle but it might at West Ham. I'm sure he would understand the 'West Ham way' and that, and he would work off that. But like you i'd rather we didn't get him as manager. I'm trying to see a positive if Sam did be our manager. I'd like Grant to stay and us improving with some new signings in January. But i don't think it would be that bad appointment. Not sure it would work long term though. Martin O'Neil would be a great manager for us. But i doubt he would want to. And he would probably want a fair bit of money. I think Grant is still our guy, it's just the squad that isn't perhaps. We'll see in Jan what they do. As we have all said if it gets worse and we keep on falling behind then you have to get rid of him. We might have to try something differant like Big Sam just to get us out of trouble short term.
As said, in this situation there´s not much I DO know, but I´m slowly getting feeling something has to be done quickly. Talking about Big Sam brings me to this question: What really IS the trad West Ham way and the nucleus of this club? Beautiful game or long ball? Nice&easy or fight? Or rather something in between? Maybe surprising but his Bolton era reminds me of many past things of ours: playing the ball fast up was much e.g. Arry´s way - to get the ball as fast as possible away from our own half. And the steam needed: Martin and Dicksy weren´t the first ones here and after them there´s been lots of other fighters, Hartson, Ruddock, Repka and stuff. So, how much of this West Ham style hype is for real, how much just romantics? An interesting issue. How do You guys see it? I just don´t like Big Sam a bit but I have a hunch he might - but just might - be the solution. Media simplifies things as we know, and I don´t see his reputation being a long ball fanatic being totally 100% true when looking back. The real issue for me just now is how to get the squad fighting for their lives? Defenders being ready to kick everything that moves? Players with burning eyes? Attitude! That is for me that is lacking. And I haven´t felt that for ages. And I don´t see Grant as an answer no matter how nicely we every now and then play and no matter how much I rate him as a man and decent human being. But, as said I just don´t know...
That, mate, is what we call panic and you're not the only one doing it. Many comments I have read on different fans' sites have sounded panicky. It causes us to make rash decisions and to lose sight of important things, such as the 'West Ham Way' of playing. If there is one thing that separates us from alot of other clubs it's this, so we should always aim to keep it no matter what we are faced with. I hope our owners are less panicky than the fans. We may have had some hard men in the past and that is not a bad thing, but ask yourself this. When can you remember West Ham having eleven 'hard men' on the pitch? My answer is never. We always managed to have some skill, flare and rare talent along the way as well. When thinking about times like (for example) Dicksy squaring up to Roy Keane, also remember occasions like Trevor Sinclair's goal against Derby where we played keepy up from the corner. Cole, Di Canio, Sinclair. The ball didn't touch the floor until it had hit the net and was easily a better goal than the GOTS that year (Bergkamp's famous 'turn' against Newcastle). The West Ham way involves playing with dignity. We don't take the easy option by packing eleven men behind the ball and/or playing the long ball. We have only ever done this as a panic move when things are going badly, to the chorus of boos in the background. Instead we try and show people that we care about the game by playing with style and finesse. OK this may seldom work, but we at least try. The Premier League is gradually forcing clubs to become more like Bolton. If we wean out the stylish play from this league and all play the route one physical game then how can we honestly say that this is the best league in the world? It isn't. It's just the most lucrative. Chelsea used to be route one under Mourhino. Now they play a better game. Add to them ManU and Arsenal and we have three of the top four playing the more stylish game. Liverpool dropped out after years of playing like Bolton and they were replaced by Spurms. As much as I dislike them I must concede that they do try and play the game properly. All this tells me that the stylish game played at it's best will always conquer the route one game played at it's best. So route one is a survival method in this league, not a method that will bring silverware. So what's the answer for us? I think we should aim to have a balance of hard players and skillful players. Hard players at the back and center midfield with skillful players up front and on the wings. Not rocket science really and certainly not a new strategy. The harder players at the back should keep clean sheets and help us score set pieces and the forwards and wingers should provide creativity to our attacking play. So, IMO, the West Ham way is all about creativity, entertainment and balance. Fat Sam does not come into this equation.
The last time I watched a game, I didn't notice the manager of any team make a tackle or pass, take a shot, or cross the ball! Our problem isn't the manager; it's the injury list! I'm absolutely convinced that the repeated absence of defenders like Jacobsen,Gabbidon, Ilunga and Da Costa, and especially midfielders Hitzlsperger, Collison, Noble and Behrami is the reason we can't put together a few vital wins. The best team has yet to actually play on a continuing basis; maybe it won't this season, and that's too bad. But I don't see where a new manager can do much better without the players he needs. Does anyone think that Alan Pardew had anything to do with Newcastle winning the other day? He'd only been there 24 hrs! And if Andy Carroll and Kevin Nolan or Joey Barton ,for instance, had been injured, I doubt the result would have gone their way. Once the best team is on the field, then the manager's tactics and strategy can be implemented. If they don't win then, that's a different story. But I suspect that Grant will be fired anyway, because that's what impatient owners do.
You´re absolutely right mate, I know I´m panicking. But you know, nearly Christmas and we´ve won just twice! And we´ve played against Sunderlands, Blackpools, WBA´s etc.etc.! I just can´t see any real improvement on attitude with things being as they are. And I´m afraid with the attitude Grant implements into the team we´re going to found ourselves in Fizzy Pop. And You´re right, we´ve never had 11 hard men - but then again, what team ever had? For me both Zola and Grant fell into this West Ham style -trap without taking into account the need for hard men. Just a solid & mean back four would do - actually that´s all we´d need. Plus one kevindavies. I follow You also on this balance thing but above all with a desperate fight and steam. E.g. Big Sam could bring that, but on other qualities, I just DON´T KNOW!
I suggest everyone reads the latest BBC report re: Grant today. I think they read some of my comments and lifted them almost verbatim!!!Can I charge them for that? So now Grant has only 2 away games to save his job; I'll wager he'll be gone in two weeks.
Fact of the matter is though, we'd be happy with whoever the manager was as long as they won games. Let's just see what happens. There are money problems but we have good owners that will keep the club going. We might get relegated but we are a big enough club to attract players, and fans, and get promotion back up to the premier league. Or slug it out near the bottom of the league if we stay up. The club is re-building but it might take longer then we liked. It might take a few years like the last time we got relegated but West Ham will be a regular Prem league team again. Short term pain for long term gain.
I totally agree with your comments, W_H. (all of them) and particularly the last comment, Allardyce is not the man for the job, should of course, Grant be given his P45.
Great Post lesliemoss, I agree (even though I miss Dean Ashton's first year with AP). I think we need to keep in mind if Grant is not the man for the Hammers he is a good manager and was given a 4 year contract. The money you loose breaking that contract and giving him the axe is a waste and can be used for a better player in January. Di Canio or Big Sam would be accepted in my book. Big Sam brought Ben Haim to the epl so I'm sure that kid will be happy, Di Canio has this energy, Still ........I go with .....Grant Grant the money and let's stay up.
Good point about the players leslie. The only thing I would add is that our players often look deflated, complacent and disorganised and this is down to the manager to sort out, whether he is the cause or not. Not that I am gunning for Grant to be sacked. I still like him. Just to say that he has a part to play in this as well as the players. Another thing to point out is that our owners have often said that relegation could mean financial melt down for the club. This adds a slightly different complexion to our predicament. The question now is 'would we have Fat Sam as manager as an absolute last resort'? If the decision becomes 'employ Fat Sam or risk going under', what should we do?
That´s the real worry for me. Earlier I´ve taken the view it wouldn´t matter much if we got relegated - been there done that. But now there´s both this meltdown talk Sullivan keeps stating and the new stadium issue. Although the latter is of course a decision for a long scale I wouldn´t want them making the decision between a Championship club and a Premier one. When was the decision to be made btw? I´m so much "Grant out" now - but then again, back-to-back wins now from the next two games and I´ll be so much Grants man and trusting him endlessly. Ridiculous eh?
I'm the same. Still, the guy hasnt done his job. He asked to be judged after 15 ganes. Well the games have been and gone. He should be gone too. Get Sam in by Saturday:that'll mess with their minds.
Dunno - either, heh - about this injury list issue mates. I follow You 100% we´ve been hit hard - but then again, we´ve always been and will be hit and in this mess are the other clubs as well. We have a desperately thin squad but so do also others fighting for their lives, always. It´s true we´ve been able to field close to a Championship side but still, although we´ve been playing good fooball quite often, we consistently lack the real fight. And good football without a fight, that won´t bring us wins from any of the matches, neither in PL nor Fizzy Pop - and, most of all, that kind of play just isn´t West Ham style for me. Think this three-matches ultimatum is quite competently thought from the owners. A fair chance for Grant to show something pointswise and fiqhtwise - and a fair chance for the possible new man (or woman: Katy Perry hmmm?) to have time to drag us out from the swamp we´re in. This weekend´s match will be grand. Up the Hammers (Jenna Jameson)!!!
Interesting these next few matches. Grant talked about them and now the owners are giving him these games to show he belongs. So what's with them.......does he need to win all three and wolves to keep his job? Does he need to get points off everyone to keep his job? What would you say each one of you would accept to put away the axe ? by the way.....I think the owners will probably axe him either way and are using these matches as a reason. He can loose one and they can say it was still not enough. I think the money lost on a termination there would be better spent on better players in January. After all it's Avram Grant, he has had success in his career that were all unexpected.........it's not Curbs or some horrible clown managing.
...and to put more spice into this: Grant denies to be given any ultimatum. At least he isn´t aware of any of that kind...
Keep Grant. There is no one out there who is better. Big Sam is just too hated in East London and his style of football would not be tolerated by any of us.