Man United v Arsenal - 9/21 [R] (inc CL results!)

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Achtung, Sep 17, 2003.

  1. KevTheGooner

    KevTheGooner Help that poor man!

    Dec 10, 1999
    THOF
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Andorra
    No doubt, the reason we escaped with a point yesterday is due to his poor form. He had other chances besides the PK that he scuffed.
     
  2. TxTechGooner

    TxTechGooner we're having fun here, no?

    Feb 24, 2003
    didnt manyoo bum rush the ref during the FA cup at old trafford last season? early on in the match... i remember tackles flying in from everywhere and they were incensed~~ at any rate, can vieira ever do any wrong? nah!!

    and what was van nistelrooy gunna do at the end? throw a punch at someone, he did just about what i expected a cheat to do.....
    not slagging off.. its a fact what players and managers think about ruud~
     
  3. Potomac Red Devil

    Aug 12, 2003
    Indiana
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "and what was van nistelrooy gunna do at the end? throw a punch at someone, he did just about what i expected a cheat to do....."

    please explain just how Ruud cheated at the match yesterday...
     
  4. USsupport

    USsupport New Member

    Aug 4, 1999
    Arlington, VA, USA
    please provide links to the quotes from players and managers. except for Wengers as we've all heard his views....

    thanks.
     
  5. Potomac Red Devil

    Aug 12, 2003
    Indiana
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "No doubt, the reason we escaped with a point yesterday is due to his poor form. He had other chances besides the PK that he scuffed."

    I can think of at least two:

    1) Missed a wide-open goal with a header in the first half. He was moving backward, but still anything down would have gone in.

    2) He had a horrid touch on a through-ball in the second half...can't remember who played it to him (Ronaldo?) but a decent touch would have put him 1-1 with the keeper.
     
  6. Achtung

    Achtung Member

    Jul 19, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I swear, you Arsenal fans all sound like a broken record. "Ruud cheats, Ruud cheats, Ruud cheats, Ruud cheats, Ruud cheats...." on and on and on. Funny how I never hear any other fans complaining about his play. Everything else I feel has already been summed up in this thread, plus what I posted in the "Suprise, Suprise, Wenger dodges blame again" thread.
     
  7. TxTechGooner

    TxTechGooner we're having fun here, no?

    Feb 24, 2003
    ask ipswich town when they got relegated by his acting.. listen, im a big dutch supporter and i am not "oh since i support arsenal i see things thru red and white glasses" RvN is a pratt on the pitch, ask edgar davids as well, im sure they get on together~~ when franny jeffers would dive round the pitch for the gunners, every supporter will tell you that he is a diver as well.... just deserves for sir ruud IMO~ missing that PK was so priceless.... and seriously, what's the BIG deal about pushing and shoving??? happens literally the whole game long.. no punches were thrown and certainly no fights~~ makes the return trip to highbury all the more exciting.. wonder how RvN will be treated by the supporters in london... wow....
     
  8. Motterman

    Motterman Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FA Statement

    Obviously, as it was only "a little pushing and shoving" nothing will come out of it, right? :rolleyes:
     
  9. house18

    house18 Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    St. Louis, MO
    Just saw the Fox Sports World Report highlights again and they just confirmed my earlier post. Now on to you. So players leaping into the air and landing a solid forearm/elbow to the back of a players head as he is walking away after the whistle "happens literally the whole game long?" So running 15 yards (didn't get a chance to measure the length of Vieras run at Ruud after getting the red) to try to get at a player after you've tried to talk the ref out of your second yellow "happens literally the whole game long?" So gang rushing a player and giving him a two handed shove in the back as he's walking away after the whistle "happens literally the whole game long?" And finally the point that proves you are wrong...Roy Keane was doing the peace making and you say this "happens literally the whole game long?" Give it up, your team did a fine job to come up with a draw and get the point they wanted and then showed no class or restraint at the end. You can say all you want about Ruud, but every team has a player like him and most of them don't score 44 goals (in all competitions) like he did last year.
     
  10. TxTechGooner

    TxTechGooner we're having fun here, no?

    Feb 24, 2003
    neva said the bloke wasn't a helluva goal poacher!~
     
  11. Eindhovuh

    Eindhovuh New Member

    Aug 29, 2003
    Holland
    What are you talking about? If you're dutch than you're a shame for all the dutch people. Ruud is the best striker of Europe. And what do you mean with "what's the BIG deal about pushing and shoving??" It isn't allowed to hit somebody on his face after the match.
     
  12. Achtung

    Achtung Member

    Jul 19, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Someone forgot to tell Mr Wenger...
     
  13. van_da_man

    van_da_man Member

    Aug 4, 2003
    UK
    arsenal are now just a laughing stock.

    wengers line ''the consequence was punished instead of the source''......fukin pissd me off so much!
     
  14. Eindhovuh

    Eindhovuh New Member

    Aug 29, 2003
    Holland
    Oh man, I HATE Arsenal
     
  15. USsupport

    USsupport New Member

    Aug 4, 1999
    Arlington, VA, USA
    Phishy: still waiting on the backup for your claim about the "facts" about what other players and managers feel about RVN...
     
  16. Seedorf

    Seedorf New Member

    Aug 4, 2003
    Minneapolis, MN USA
    Being a Leeds backer, I almost never will argue on the side of Man Utd. However, actions of Arsenal was immature and shameful. So, I'm doing something I normally will not do.

    Maybe Ruud took a dive when Vieira was redcarded; it was a close call. But when Arsenal is acting like that's the first time a striker has ever possibly taken a dive to get a card is insane. I would like somebody to tell me that Henry or Wiltord has never taken a dive.

    Regardless if it was dive or not, the postgame mugging to van Nistelrooy was offensive. The FA needs to hand down some serious fines and suspensions, especially for Keown, Lauren and Parlour. Arsenal is the most unprofessional team in the EPL and the FA needs to teach them a lesson that actions like that will not be tolerated! Arsene Wenger, shame on you...
     
  17. USsupport

    USsupport New Member

    Aug 4, 1999
    Arlington, VA, USA
    I think I already stated this, but a draw was a fair result I thought as the peno decision looked iffy. so, when RVN missed I wasn't that bothered as I thought that it all worked out even but the behaviour of the aforementioned Arsenal players was not right. I'd be embarrased if the Utd players did that. (and I have been in the past when they crossed the line). all this banter won't stop the FA doing what they will and I think that it'll be no surprise to anyone if Arsenal come off worst in the inquiry. they got a well deserved point yesterday, but at what cost?
     
  18. Azabache

    Azabache Member

    Nov 22, 1998
    Essex Co.
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yeah, they played laughingly bad and still got the point at OT. I think that's really what's bothering you. Don't you wish your new pretty boy could actually cross as opposed to just crossing over?
     
  19. UnitedForever

    UnitedForever New Member

    Sep 22, 2003
    New Jersey
    Az...

    Don't you wish your team could make it through a match vs. United with all 11 men?

    Arsenal are a joke. Their manager oversees an asylum, filled with irresponsible, whining children. And Wenger himself is so self-deluded that it's tragic...a complete stranger to the truth.

    But I think it's a bridge too far this time for the runner's up...not even Arsene can put the genie back in the bottle this time.

    We shall see.
     
  20. Soccerholic

    Soccerholic New Member

    Mar 6, 2001
    Mile High
    FSW is showing this game Wed 8/24 at 8pm ET.
     
  21. giggs88

    giggs88 Member

    May 11, 2003
    Virginia
    please shut the *#*#*#*# up!!! van nistelrooy fouled viera and he got a yellow for it. same time viera kicked out a ruud and he too deserved a yellow for it. only problem it was his second, so he had to *#*#*#*# off. no use whining about it.
     
  22. Mac_Howard

    Mac_Howard New Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    Mandurah, Perth, WA
    Because of the controversy and the conflicting descriptions of what happened I taped the replay of the full game on Foxtel (I had seen the game live earlier and made my comments based on that). I've played and replayed the controversial events again and again. Here's what truly happened:

    1) Vieira's first booking. This was for persistent fouling - he had been called four times and three other occasions had fouled but advantage was played by the ref. A clear yellow card.

    2) Vieira's second yellow: Phil Neville mishit a pass intended to go over Vieira's head to the left corner flag. The ball flew high and was coming down roughly where Vieira was standing. He prepared to control the ball.

    RvN decided to challenge for the high ball. He jumped in clumsily. Vieira saw him coming and didn't jump. He made a back for him - he stepped forward a yard, turned 180 degrees so his back was to RvN and bent forward. This undercut RvN and caused him to overbalance and land on Vieira's back. Vieira was sent sprauling to the ground and RvN managed to keep his balance and landed a yard away. There was no other further contact between the two. The "stamping" that some claim to have seen was non-existent.

    Vieira, lieing on his side, kicked his right leg out at RvN. It was studs first to the groin. From the ref's, RvN's and the main camera angle's view it looked like a full kick. From the opposite angle it was clear Vieira pulled the kick at the last moment and didn't fully extend his leg. He clearly threatened but didn't intend to connect.

    RvN jumped back - as you would with a boot of studs thrust toward your groin. He didn't dive, he didn't feign injury, he didn't pretend he'd been hit. He thrust his arms apart and looked at Vieira with a look of disbelief and gestured to the ref "what's this all about?".

    The ref had already seen enough and was rushing to Vieira to book him. He didn't need RvN's reaction to make up his mind. It was a clear yellow card offence.

    Lehmann stormed out of his goal and was screaming at the referee in the most ridiculous manner. At first it looked like he was being given the cards - first yellow then red. When Vieira realised it was for him he went berserk. He knocked Keane out of the way and cannoned into the back of Giggs. Giggs head snapped back - don't be surprised if he's out next match with whiplash :)

    First Roy Keane and then Gary Neville restrained Vieira and calmed him down before he made things much worse. Vieira responded well to Keane's words and calmed down. Neville walked him off the pitch. No Arsenal player seemed to have the sense to do this and ensure he didn't make life much more difficult for himself.

    RvN was given a yellow card but I think more because of the rumpus than the challenge which was certainly clumsy but so are many others that don't bring a yellow card.

    3) The penalty. It was a good call. Yes, sometimes defenders get away with pushing attackers like this but they shouldn't. This one was also a little bit too blatant.

    Keown placed his right hand in the small of Forlan's back and pushed him to the ground as he went for Neville's through ball. It was unneccesary because Forlan was never going to get to the ball and all the more unacceptable for that.

    Incidentally, Keown made no protest whatsoever over the penalty decision. He simply lay on the ground and looked miserable probably contemplating the reaction he would get in the dressing room after RvN converted the penalty and Arsenal had lost a match they deserved to draw.

    Of course, RvN missed the penalty and Keown was unable to control his delight. His screaming in RvN's face - you must have seen the photo - wasn't pretty and clearly humiliating to a dejected player.

    4) The final rumpus. It began a few seconds before the final whistle.

    The ball was played forward to RvN on the edge of the Arsenal box. RvN had his back to goal and Keown was immediately behind him. Having already forgot about his unneccesary challenge that led to the penalty, Keown pushed RvN from the back. It could so easily have been a freekick from a yard out of the box.

    RvN played the ball back.

    An Arsenal player, I'm not sure which (maybe Gilberto) sidled up to RvN, hooked his right foot behind RvN left leg and pulled the leg away. RvN fell to the ground. The ref clearly missed a blatant foul just a yard outside the box and the start of the abuse.

    As RvN rose from the ground the ref blew the final whistle. Keown jumped up with delight and as he ran forward and past RvN he brought his left forearm down on the back of RvN's neck. It was quite a hard blow knocking his head forward and will doubtless be punished by the FA.

    Cole then ran across the back of RvN and dug his left hand into RvN's back. Then Toure ran into RvN from the left and pushed him as Parlour came from the front and grabbed his shirt. RvN broke away and made for the dressing room.

    As the cameras strobed around the players, Toure, Parlour and Henry were clearly out of control with rage in their faces and yelling and screaming at Utd players. This wasn't celebration, it was hatred and Wenger really has to take a good look at those players and their attitude and do something about it.

    Wenger's reaction to the whole thing was ludicrous. RvN did nothing in this game to justify his comments. It was a plain case of paranoid denial. Wenger has to recognise that his players are out of control and he has to do something about it. He has to take a lot of responsibility for what is happening because the reputation of his club is going down the tubes and with it, to some extent, the reputation of the English game.
     
  23. haven

    haven New Member

    Jul 9, 2003
    Boston, MA
    I've been thinking about this more than anything else. The other issue is simple.

    I think that it was one of those games where Man Utd deserved more than a point, but Arsenal didn't deserve to go home empty-handed. Slightly harsh on Utd... but the win would have been a bit generous.

    We outplayed them... but not by all that much.

    Arsenal's players are thugs. Plain and simple. What's truly amusing, is that nobody who doesn't support Arsenal is arguing otherwise. Liverpool supporters, Leeds supporters... not exactly Man Utd sympathizers. But they all seem to have drawn the logical conclusion.

    1. Yep, Ruud does dive a little.
    2. The occasional exaggerated fall is nothing compared to the continued violent conduct and poor sportsmanship evinced by Arsenal.

    I don't understand: how can any set of fans so obviously reject the nearly universal verdict, especially when most fans dislike the other team even more?
     
  24. ManchesterMets

    ManchesterMets New Member

    Aug 29, 2003
    Manchester UK
    Its just frustration lads.

    They do play exceptional football (when they tore apart borough, but they seem to be tactically naive.

    Why try and walk it thr all the time? When they were getting down the flanks and crossing it, they were much more of a threat, I think its true to say they are missing the british work ethos of scrapping and fighting for the points, if they're not playing well, if its not going their way, they cant seem to change it.

    As for the game, we deserved to win, although I think 1 nil would have been fair. Keep Ruudy taking the pens, he's got a bit of a dip in form, but he's still the best striker in the whole of the UK (maybe the world!), he'll shake this off and then we'll see him banging in goals left right and centre.


    Anyway, not being nasty, but its a great bonus having Viera out!!!!!

    Only thing is......both teams are helping Chelsea too much! They are a threat, they can and will challenge for the title, and they will be the top club in London.

    But Fergie is a genius, and the lads are the best gelled team in Europe.

    Man u forever - Its just another red revolution (again).
     
  25. Potomac Red Devil

    Aug 12, 2003
    Indiana
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "We outplayed them... but not by all that much."

    Yes we did...but they were packing it in pretty good on defense. A good central midfield could have cracked it, but we either don't have anyone in center who is playing well and/or we sold and didn't replace our good attacking central midfielder.

    Arsenal really played it brilliantly, to be honest. Get the point at OT and go home...
     

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