This is a fairly long story but read the third paragraph from the bottom. http://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/premiership/2006-2007/sport_sto1181190.shtml Demerit in the Copa?
Well that confirms what I think we all know should happen this summer. Good find. I am more excited about our "B" team in the Copa than watching our "A" team in the Gold Cup. "B" team players: Mapp, Demeritt, Simek, Spector (maybe), Pearce, Cooper, Rolfe, Bradley, Klejstan, Reis, Cannon, Parkhurst Just throwing some names out there who I think will make these games very entertaining to watch from a USMNT perspective. We all know what LD, Howard, Bocanegra, Gooch, Cherundolo, DMB, EJohnson, Ching, Clark, can do......2-0 v. Mexico, another Gold Cup ....yadda yadda yadda (I totally jinxed us now)
I wonder if this comes from, "Bradley was here asking about Jay playing in Copa America, the coach said yes, so voila." Or is it, "Well, the US will be in Copa America, Jay is one of the best US defenders, so I'm guessing he'll be in Copa America. There's some other tournament too, you say? What's it called?" Good little tidbit though, regardless.
I can understand your excitement to see them play but I am very concerned about putting that type of line-up out there against a squad led by Messi and Tevez in our first match. The excitement could quickly turn to horror.
Then let them get their butts handed to them. That's what international soccer is all about. I get really tired of seeing new players introduced against minnows. I would rather see our B side in Copa over 3 games to see who really steps up to the plate.
Oh don't worry. Your "jink" is far outweighed by their Permanent State of Denial and their "if we play like this, we'll beat the US nine of ten times".
agree. for me, some of the excitement is that maybe some of these b squad dudes will actually show well against these titans in the most competitive games we'll ever get against them outside of a world cup.
I disagree with this. What purpose does it serve to have a less-than-optimal team get thrown to the wolves? How do you evaluate a forward - say, a Kenny Cooper or Jozy Altidore - if he doesn't get any service from a piecemeal midfield? How do you evaluate a midfielder - say, a Benny Feilhaber or Nathan Sturgis - if the under-duress defense bypasses him with their clearances? How do you evaluate a defender - say, a Jay Demerit or a Jonathan Spector - if nobody has the experience to organize the back 4? We're a good team, but we're not THAT good. Even our A-team has trouble holding possession against weaker teams...now our B-team is supposed to "step up to the plate" away from home, against tougher competition? Among new players, the two biggest successes this year were Bornstein jumping into the fray against Denmark, and Bradley manning the midfield against Ecuador. In former, Bornstein debuted at his home stadium against a weaker opponent. In the latter, Bradley debuted at half-time, in the US, while surrounded by A-team players. Having a total B-team go down to South America and expect to show something is unreasonable and is setting up these players for failure. Any success will be despite the situation, not because of it. As such, I don't see how such a scenario helps any player analysis.
Unlike one and done friendlies, this guarantees a group of players at least 3 games, so we get a chance to see who responds over a period of time. This is how you evaluate players. One shot games aren't the way you do it. It leads to anomalies. If player X has a bad game, then how do they respond in the next? If Y is good in one game, do they continue that to the next, or drop off? How does chemistry develop between players, etc? True evaluation is done over a period of years, but this high pressure evaluation is also important.
This is why Bradley gets paid what he does. IMHO, he brings Keller in for the Copa to be the starting GK. McBride said he would be availabe and it wouldn't surprise me to see him brought in primarily as a veteran/leader. You throw in Pablo possibly, Wade Barrett possibly and some more experienced players and you have some veteran talent mixed in. You balance the team with some veterans that is how you do it. Results IMHO do not matter. I am watching players and how they perform. If we get results, great because they get us more games against quality opponents. How are we going to learn about Simek if he isn't under seige from Messi and Argentina? V. Guatemala or some CONCACAF minnow? no.....let Messi run at the kid all day. Let's see how he does. We should be realistic about it though and recognize that most defenders are going to struggle with Messi all day. I know how much fun that is goign to be on bigsoccer though where we see a match and overreact just a bit.
agree. players get better by playing against better players and learning. the sooner we figure out which of our young players do that more effectively than others the better.
so they can figure out how to deal with the wolves in a tough international environment? did we have a less-than-optimal team to put out there against Ghana? i'd rather these guys get this experience now (at the CA) and learn from it, and perhaps be better prepared to handle it should they find themselves on the field (due to injuries or cards or whatever) in a deciding third group game at an upcoming WC.
Are you referring to that April Fool's thread? Other than that I haven't heard anything about him ever playing for the national team again.
Again, I'm not opposed to the tough competition. I am, however, against the idea of sending a team comprised solely of inexperienced players into our toughest competition since the World Cup. Something that MLSNHTOWN proposed sounds much better.
the last rime BB used a B squad it was guatemala and that was 0-0... ah, the group phase of copa america has NO guatemalas in it... the good thing is, they won't bunker like guatemala, they'll come out to play, and we'll get a far better read on the B group than guatemala offered.. if the B group advances out of group play, that's a solid achievement, alhough 8 of 12 advance....
I remember us speculating on a quote by Alan Curbishley about Spector prior to the WCQ's versus Costa Rica and Panama... Curbishley said something like "we've got a few players going out on international duty this coming week... Spector will be playing for the United States against Panama." We were wondering if he knew that we also had a game against Costa Rica that week, and that surely Spector could play in that one as well. Lo, and behold, Spector only played against Panama. Point being, I think the US coaching staff probably makes it very clear to these clubs what they'll be using their players for... They want to stay on their good side.
Jay is heading to Cali for the China camp/game, and Watford posted this article that suggests that Jay will be playing in both the GC and Copa... http://www.watfordfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10400~1017869,00.html
Any lineup we put out there is going to generate a lot of anxiety against Messi. As a fan all we can do is hold on, sick back, and take our lashings like grown men.
i'm beginning to feel more comfortable with the idea that we want to prioritize the gold cup above the sexier copa. at this point in the wc cycle, we are trying to identify good candidates for our wc2010 starting xi, and we get 2 full blown competitions with which to do so. the gold cup is our confed tourney, and a win there gets us confed cup games 1 year before the wc. a good showing in the copa would be nice, and if this were 2009 and we had a good idea who our wc2010 starting xi were, i'd say we should go full throttle. as it is, results don't matter now. seeing if we have some good talent that can respond well to pressure is our copa goal. is messi gonna cause us (and our defenders) anxiety? you bet. but if we are lucky, we'll leave the copa with some guys more able to cut it in 2010.
Anxiety yes, lashings not necessarily. Our first choice defensive players have experience playing in the World Cup, Bundesliga and Premiership. The players that were listed as a "B" team (almost a "C" team imo) have a little bit of MLS experience. Onyewu, Cherundolo, Bocanegra and our top defenders have played agains the likes of Pirlo, Rosicky, Totti, Rooney, Ballack, Gerrard and Kaka. They are not going to be intimidated. More importantly, they've spent several years playing together on the USMNT and developed a comfort level. One need only look at the second half against Germany in the pre-world cup friendly to see how an inexperienced "B" team can completely fall apart on foreign soil against tough competition. If we have the team that was cited initially, that could easily happen and it could be much, much worse. Personally, I don't see what good it does to stick our rising players who are inexperienced internationally together into a match where they may well lose 8-0 agains the likes of the power of Argentina. How on earth does that build their confidence??? I agree that you may want to try some of our newer players out interspersed with our more experienced stalwarts. However, to blood a ton of young and inexperienced players internationaly all together against a team like Argentina is suicide. I would argue that there is little to be learned from that and I hope it doesn't happen.
Let's not go overboard. RSL's reserve team would not lose to Argentina 8-0. Let the U.S. "B" (I hate lettered teams, I think that's bull) go at those Copa America clubs and see where we are at!
To further support this point, people should remember what happened in Costa Rica last qualifying round after we had already qualified for Germany and sent a B team down there. Ick. And this isn't Costa Rica we're heading to...