Malik Tillman

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Maximum Optimal, May 31, 2022.

  1. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Finally coming around.
     
  2. dethfire

    dethfire Member

    Jun 24, 2005
    It was a bit hard to judge his time at PSV because I just couldn't rate a lot of Eredivisie teams, but compared to our players on the gold cup team, he's head and shoulders the best player out there. so much control, strength and composure. I get the hype now.
     
  3. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Remember that special relationship Poch had/has with Dele Allie …
     
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  4. NYdog

    NYdog Member+

    United States
    Nov 6, 2024
    United States
    Played well in the Champions League and PSV was a much better team once he came back from injury.
     
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  5. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    now we start becoming love


    "I think Malik is a talented player, that is obvious that everyone can see. What changed I think of course is I understand him better now. First few times, October/November, when we met for the first time, I think was difficult to create this relationship that the player need and the coach need to trust and to trust each other. That is about time. I seen now after a few weeks together, I really start to understand him and him starts to understand us. He’s very special, very special talent, very special kid, he’s a fantastic kid. I think we are like in PSV, all in love with him, now we start becoming love. Myself and the coaching staff with him creating this relationship. I’m so happy because I think when people say yes you need time, yes we do need time because we need time to create that link that can provide the players to perform, fight for you, and die for you, and the same for the coach. Trust and knowing that the players are going to fight for you and die for you. And that is why I’m so happy because he’s a talented player, one of the most talented players I think we have in USA."



     
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  6. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    his new Dele Alli ....
     
  7. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    #607 grandinquisitor28, Jun 17, 2025
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2025
    Some haters wondering if they need to figure out what aisle crow is in (but really, how often do they ever eat their crow?)....

    Otoh, that was T&T, yet another hideous version of T&T.

    So gotta respect the nuance there, not exactly a tough opponent, otoh, that pass is that pass against anyone, it's just defended better and maybe doesn't lead to the break through, even if it was still picture perfect beauty.

    What's exciting to me is that when players have a cold run this long (3 years), it can get in the head, like Altidore's bad run with Hull and Sunderland, Wood's in Germany, Sargent's with Norwich, and to break the bad run w/a great run of form: 2 starts, 4 goal contributions, regardless of the relative opponent quality, has to be a positive.

    Hopefully he builds on it in the knockouts (I'm not convinced this Saudi Arabia is nearly the test a game against Costa Rica. and Canada would be). Fingers crossed w/these performances, he's found his national team mojo and is here to stay as Poch seems to imply.
     
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  8. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Mmmm, for the Eredivisie, 6 of 19 goal contributions in '23-'24 were against top 4 sides, not bad, this past year, only 1 of 14, so 7 of 33 I think. But he had a jump up in production in CL as well. A year ago he had 3 very sketchy assists that weren't counted by everyone and were not inspiring as assists even if you wanted to count them. This past CL he got the 5 goal contributions, including a tour de force performance against Girona that helped solidify PSV's return to the knockouts in a man of the match performance.

    He's been dropping breadcrumbs that he's a legit weapon since the fall of '22, it has always just required some hope, and projection to fully believe it, but the reality is: Rangers Young Player of the Year in '23 (and the SPL Young Player of the Year) stepped right in as a key player for PSV in '23-'24, and there seemed to be an attitude that Tillman was probably the most valuable asset on the roster this past season, some evidence for that includes both their asking price, as well as their collapse after his injury and return to form and a title out of nothing following his injury recovery.

    Lots of evidence, but you've got to trust the projection, and the anecdotal evidence, it's a lot of hope combined with reviews from his coaches, the raw counting stats are solid, but don't say superstar, but the past week has been fantastic for him (and to my mind, also for Luna, Freeman, and hopefully Freese taking over the GK gig).
     
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  9. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Tillman has really come into his own at PSV, and it was nice to see some of the same nifty passing he showed there vs T&T. OTOH I can’t recall seeing our guys less pressured on the ball ever.
     
  10. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    They were pressured, it just came late and into their legs.
     
  11. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    The haters can have a bit of a pass on this one because 1) the USMNT results have been so poor for so long that the bad taste gets attributed to everyone, 2) though Tillman has steadily been growing in a role, he had yet to have a break-out performance, and 3) Pochettino himself called for him to have more of a presence on the field. So, haters…don’t feel too obligated to your hate. You can let it go.

    The great thing about this performance is that he not only became present, he became that dude. Those guys who are always in or around the play on both ends of the field are rare. We don’t have another one in the pool. We haven’t had a guy that influential in every phase of the middle and final third since Landon Donovan. They’re much different stylistically, but Tillman attacks from everywhere between his own 18 and the other 6. His long ball is excellent. He can play it on the ground, in the air, across the field, etc, etc. He’s a crafty dribbler and will make the high efficiency play off the dribble. Through balls, etc, he can break two lines from his own half of the field and does so regularly. There is a lot there. He’s also faster than it seems to the eye. That’s before you get to his scoring, where he is able to score from multiple areas in multiple ways.

    He has taken well to Pochettino, and you can see the growth on Malik’s face in his countenance. He looks more serious and more ready for leadership.
     
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  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
  13. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    There were two sets of haters though, and neither had anything to do with the current run of bad form the media and fans are fixated on (the past year, or the past few months, I trace it back 2 years, but most haven't). First, there was a giant clump of chuckleheads who wrote him off after his FIRST FREAKING CAMP, three years ago. That was insane, but a good majority of the haters are of that group. The second group are more a mix of rationalists (using analytics data which is more tempered on him, or simple alarm at counting stats since he's been called up (usually ignoring the paucity of minutes and focusing on the total cap #'s, and years in the program).

    I'd be more tempered in my attitude of the haters, if I didn't know so many of them wrote him off immediately after his first window with the team, and if so many simply looked at the caps, lack of scoring and assumed he was a solid club player but a crap international that didn't "get" the international game.

    All this being said: it's just T&T, and T&T makes anyone look good, as the Pirate of the Caribbean illustrated years ago, Ferreira (who in fairness, I think is actually good, just not a striker, and not nearly as good as the other options at the time), for now, I'm just excited that he's playing really well and executing in a way he could against anyone (that pass to Luna is a fabulous pass regardless of opponent for instance).

    We'll see, he needs to keep laying the hammer down as the tournament flows to build momentum into the fall. Luna I'm already 1000% convinced of, Tillman needs to do it against the better of the crap sides in this awful tournament.
     
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  14. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    In a lot of ways I was more encouraged by the Turkey match than I was this one -- the skills have always been there for Malik (well, mostly), but it's the aggression / decision making / intensity that has lacked most of the time for the US.

    It is fun to contrast just on T&T, tho, as probably his worst game in a US uniform was that eventual 3-0 win over T&T at home in Nations League. We actually tried to use him much the same way -- as someone to play off (mostly Dest, IIRC, but also Reyna) and he just couldn't receive a pass or make those passes. He was getting bullied by the defense.

    The biggest difference probably was this T&T team, to be honest. They were not physical or aggressive. But with so much space, he could do his thing. Against Turkey, he had to fight for it more which I think is the question mark -- can he find the space for us when the defense is not terrible?

    I think so, but we will see.
     
  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I've never hated Malik, though I'm sure some throw me in that bucket. I defended him quite a bit after those first few matches when the loudest voices were that he sucked and would never be good (I really have no idea how people write players off after 10 minutes so easily).

    It's only when the discourse shifted to putting him on a level with the best of the core based solely on club play and basically always blaming others for his underperformance that I became a "hater." I simply said that he had to deliver. He's starting to, but I don't think he's there yet.

    I think there's been something of a step forward for Malik this window, but there were always a couple of things with him.

    The first, I still don't know why it was happening, but he had a string of games, that original T&T game included, where he seemingly lost all skill. My running assumption is still that he wasn't ready for how physical CONCACAF could be, but maybe we will never understand how such a skilled player became a donkey for a few games in a row.

    The other is basically intensity and aggression. Against Turkey, he defended with high energy so if he can keep doing that, it's about half of it. But the second will be how aggressive he is on offense against better teams. He was fairly passive despite playing well against Turkey -- a lot of backpassing, a lot of giving the ball up when he should press. Unlike Luna, I don't think he realizes that he's often the best option there. On this roster, he's got to realize that he and Luna are the others who are likely to make things happen. Backpassing to Johnny will kill any semblance of attack.

    Even against T&T ... he made some great plays but he wasn't hunting nearly as much as he could have. No big deal against T&T but hopefully against a Mexico or Canada he takes the game to them when pressed.
     
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  16. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    We'll see in the coming games, but what seemed clear here, is he imposed his game, from finishing, to setting up teammates to making quality runs, positioning, defending, all of it. Crap T&T make that easier of course, but I also think there's layers upon layers of evidence that Poch and friends have fixated on Tillman, Luna and McGlynn as the attacking centerpiece of this team, all 3 of those guys get attention and reps, and are playing as good as I have seen them play in the uniform, I think, though it's a big, big jump, that those guys feel empowered (hopefully Agyemang has disabused him of his fascination with said player, I think he's the fourth of that group, unfortunately). I can't understand why Tillman took this long, beyond the erratic drips and dribbles of minutes here and there, which are hard to build momentum on, but it does seem like Poch gets him....we'll see. This is a garbage tournament with garbage opponents and the group stage is always a horrific joke. The knockouts are likely to be vs Costa Rica, Vs Canada, and Vs Mexico if we play well (maybe Panama in the final if Mexico continues to suck), not many tough games he is likely to struggle in until the SF's if we make it that far. We'll see.
     
  17. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    #617 NietzscheIsDead, Jun 17, 2025
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2025
    Hopefully by the time that the stiffer competition rolls around people will have attenuated their understanding of his play in a way that allows them to contextualize what he is doing.

    If we watch Lamar Jackson shake free of two tacklers, launch a perfect 40-yard touch pass off of his back foot on the run while being tackled by a third, and it goes through his receiver’s hands and bounces off of their helmet, we don’t blame Lamar Jackson. We look at Lamar Jackson and think about how great of a play he made.

    Malik Tillman will receive a ball in his half, turn with a guy on his back, and while he’s falling over, he’ll hit a crisp 40-yard through ball on the ground with English on it that will slow into the path of an onrushing forward and that forward will bungle the play. When guys complete the play and Tillman’s awarded an assist, people acknowledge that kind of pass. But those are not schroedingers passes if the play is not completed. We know they exist because we can see them. People just have a harder time contextualizing those plays like we do in other sports because we don’t have the same depth, ubiquitousness, saturation, and historical development of media coverage in soccer as we do in a couple of other sports..
     
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  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    He made quite a few good plays. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the above, but I wouldn't say Malik dominated the game. And maybe he never does that -- I am definitely holding him to a higher standard. But I do think we're going to run into teams even in this Gold Cup with this roster where he needs to go make something happen more than be extremely strong executing when the game comes to him if that makes sense.

    But maybe that is his game and we just need to work to it. Which will be fine as well but if so, we shouldn't be surprised if there's some disappearing acts there.
     
  19. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    T&T believed that he was the main source of their problems. At half time Yorke marked him for destruction. They tried to get him taken off the field.
     
  20. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pretty sure Yorke at the half was like Tillman is making you look stupid do something about it.
    It was the coach reaching into the play with pride bag. It gave them a little life but I was most happy that the US didn’t respond to it and get themselves in trouble.
     
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  21. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Some of the tackles were so ungainly and brutish that it was shocking that they did not get carded.
     
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  22. Cynical US fan

    United States
    Mar 30, 2017
    Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are CONCACAF refs the worst in the world? It’s not only our roster or coach that work against us, but the ********ing refs. It is a miracle that more of our players aren’t crippled.
     
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  23. GoodHands

    GoodHands Member+

    AC Milan
    United States
    Jul 17, 2024
    No. CONCACAF refs are NOT the worst in the world. It has not been that long since we got to see CONMEBOL refs in operation and they were worse, mostly. CONCACAF refs are poor but CONMEBOL refs are bad.
     
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  24. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Apparently Poch has the same speech writer as Trump. Not like there is anything wrong with that.
     
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  25. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's so good you don't even know how good he is.
     

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