4-0 vs Girona in CL (2 goal contributions), named player of the match. Since we're moving goal posts is a favorite predilection with Tillman: His erratic scoring with Rangers was erratic against the entire league, not simply feasting on the bad teams, and sucking against the good (same with CL, where he was impactful in qualifying, but not in a group stage where Rangers were annihilated by everyone), Tillman actually had a poor scoring record against 2 of the worst teams in the league+Celtic, while scoring against some of the mid table sides, and the worst. With PSV he's had a similar trajectory, not terribly impactful in big games in '23-'24, then much more impactful in big games in '24-'25 in league play, same with CL. I'm sure the Girona performance will be tossed aside because Girona got a red card in the match (after Tillman's assist and goal, not before), or that Girona sucked this year will be argued (actually Girona is in a giant pile of similarly mediocre La Liga sides that won between 11-13 league games and have a season long GD between -4 and -12. They have the same win total this year as 12th place Valencia and a GD of -12 to Valencia's -10,and are only 4 points away from Valencia in the table, heck only 6 away from 10th place Mallorca), but the reality is: after failing to win any of their opening 3 matches, and absolutely having to get 3 points at home vs Girona, he put in a man of the match winning performance with a goal and an assist in the first half to essentially put the game away. I'm not arguing that you're wrong period or anything, obviously you have a much firmer hand on the facts and the particulars than me. I just think that currently the evidence with the guy is more confusing in a statistical sense, as are the performances. It is very difficult to suggest firmly that whatever he's done at Rangers and PSV is predictive that he should be a stud or leading man for the USMNT, or for a midtable big 5 club, it's merely suggestive that everywhere he's gone in his club career, he's been a key guy: winning young player of the year for Rangers and the SPL itself, immediately walking into both starting lineups and playing a key role in the sides grabbing CL relevance, and performing in such a fashion that both coaches see his talent, and in Bosz's case, rely on it, with fans believing that he was a primary reason that after a litany of injuries, they scrambled past a tumbling Ajax to win back to back titles. None of this means he is a star in waiting or ever may be one, it just means he's proven incredibly important for his big club teams since leaving Bayern Munich 3 years ago, all the while having had very little impact, and usually a subpar impact in our shirt. To this point, I am assuming he will get more attention from Poch, not less, because he and Luna are currently the only options worth a damn in terms of creativity and attacking prowess from Central Midfield (especially if McKennie is hurt). I imagine Poch will work his damndest to unlock similar performances for the US. I hope they will come, I can't say I know they will.
I remember him being very good and disruptive pressing Arsenal. I can't remember the particulars of each game to say if they were against "top 5 league opponents" or not, but I think he looked really good in other Champions League games that he played.
I'd probably quibble a bit with "incredibly important" and settle for "played very well" -- I think both his teams were (relative to league) stacked and could easily absorb him leaving / his absence. That said, your paragraph here is a big part of what I was getting at when I kicked off this twelve page firestorm or whatever. There's no denying his performance at club and no denying his lack of impact for the US. In his seven games with us, he has an MLS assist and basically a good 20 minutes. For the record, I think quite a few posters here have really good points. His time with the US is a relatively small sample. And the context of his performance at PSV is super important and a viable explanation -- Malik's game is more passive than you'd expect from the numbers and so he's going to be wildly more productive on a team like PSV. He's an attacking mid that needs more service than you'd think. But there's still a disconnect, and now that we've moved from the explanation of the week in Berhalter to a new coach ... that one doesn't hold a ton of water. And really, given Malik's performances, it never really did to me. The coach doesn't make you unable to receive a ball under pressure. So the questions remain: Why? And: How long do you wait on Malik Tillman when someone like Diego Luna came in and immediately had a larger impact on the game with far less time? (And as for Brenden ... Tillman will need 14 goal contributions in his next 1,700 USMNT minutes to even match the so-called donkey's productivity for the US. That's just under Pulisic's career pace. So get cracking, Malik!)
Goal posts are firmly rooted in the ground. Girona are 15th in La Liga, don’t qualify, so hit me with the next one.
He was the 6, PSV got completely overrun but PSG finished very poorly. Malik was not a “force” but he didn’t embarrass himself.
This was a dead rubber against a rotated Arsenal side that did not care. Malik had no shots and two key passes for .1 xA (meaning they were two below avg chances). He did hold up pretty well and connect effectively.
Mate, every non Old Firm team in the SPL that season (and tbf, every other season) was bad. The points gap between 3rd and last in the league that season was smaller than the gap between 3rd and 2nd.
Facts are often useful for folks who want to look at things objectively. DateOpponentScoreMinutesComments 6-2-22MoroccoW3-0sub-25 6-11-22GranadaW5-0sub-45 9-23-22JapanL0-2sub-23 9-27-22Saudi ArabiaT0-0sub-14 9-9-23UzbekistanW3-0sub-9 9-13-23OmanW4-0AM 71 11-17-23TrinidadW3-0RW 66 11-21-23TrinidadL1-2sub-25 3-22-24JamaicaW3-1CM 76Musah, McKennie, Tillman 3-25-24MexicoW2-0sub-1 6-8-24ColombiaL1-5sub-28Cardosa, McKennie, Reyna 7-2-24UruguayL0-1sub-1 9-7-27CanadaL1-2CM 62Cardosa, Musah,Tillman 9-11-24New ZealandT1-1sub-24 10-13-24PanamaW2-0sub-12 10-16-24MexicoL0-2AM 63 Musah, Busio, Morris 11-15-24JamaicaW1-0sub-69sub for injured Cardosa, DP with Tessmann
I think the most likely explanation has to do with a lack of familiarity between Tillman and his US teammates, maybe the system(s) that the US is using, and maybe even the culture within the US team. If there aren't major signs of things clicking for Malik by the end of the Gold Cup, that's when I'd start to worry about what he is able to bring to the national team.
Folks who are only looking at Gs and As from Tillman are really missing half his game. That is not the important part of his game at PSV and not for the USMNT. Take a look back at his 2 v Jamaica performances. There was a moment in the last match at Jamaica where Jamaica had a break; Malik made a lung bursting run to catch, corral, and ultimately win a throw in IIRC. Sunffed out a very dangerous opportunity for Jamaica. Malik was an early sub for Cardosa in that match. No way Cardosa makes that play. Those are the kinds of plays Malik makes for PSV!
He is going to have his detractors around these parts until he makes an impact for the USMNT that even remotely resembles his play for PSV. He hasn't played that many minutes for the USMNT but he has been oddly poor in a few of those games... especially early on. I think he has flashed a bit more in recent outings but nothing like what we see on a regular basis for his club. I do like that you pointed out that play.... because Tillman's ability to catch up to players from behind and put in a challenge is underrated IMO. He isn't your traditional destroyer type at all but he has some skills/smarts when it comes to pressing and tackling that I find intriguing. He sometimes plays a double pivot or even a single 6 for PSV and has shown some deep lying play-making ability. I would still rather him play a bit further up the pitch but I could be sold on him playing a double pivot for the USMNT. The dude is a serious talent and I think he should be in our best 11. Make it friggin work. 3-5-2 would be optimal IMO. CP - Balogun Jedi - Adams - Tillman - Johnny - Dest McKenzie - Robinson - Richards
And I've heard this said before, it's not a new argument. Dundee, Ross County, Kilmarnock and Livingston were all 31-46 point window, a wide spread, but with a GD that was across the board -23+, Hearts, Hibernian, Motherwell and Aberdeen carried GD's of +6, +2, -2 and -4 (in random order), which is orders of magnitude worse than -23, -24, -25, -30 which were the four worst GD's of teams that finished 8th, 10th, 11th and dead last. So yeah, I fully understand, that Celtic and Rangers dominated the league, and everyone else is significantly worse by several orders of magnitude, but even at that level, Hearts and Hibernian were far far better than Dundee or Ross County or Kilmarnock etc. The reality is: his goal contributions were spread out haphazardly, like an up and down player who was playing his age 20 season, which he was: He got 4 against 7th place Motherwell, +2 in GD, 3 against Hearts who qualified for Europa and finished +6 in GD, 2 against fifth place Hibs who finished -2 in GD, another 2 against dead last Dundee with that -30 GD, 1 against 3rd place Aberdeen and their CL Playoff qualification and -4 GD, and one apiece as well against 9th place St Johnstone and Ross County. He had all of 3 total goal contributions against the 4 worst sides in the SPL that year, Ross, Dundee, St. Johnstone and Kilmarnock. That's what is telling to me. He had 6 goal contributions against teams that qualified for CL or Europa League Playoffs in Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen, and only 3 against the four worst sides in the SPL by far in Dundee, Ross, St. Johnstone, and Kilmarnock, the worst of the worst and far worse than Hibs, Hearts and what not. It suggests a young player that is, shockingly, inconsistent, as young players are, rather than one feasting on ---- teams.
Tillman's had a very good season with PSV. He should keep getting call ups. It's to be determined whether he gets into the starting 11, but not debatable whether he should be included in the roster.
Unless he's a locker room cancer he simply has to be a key piece of the 2026 puzzle. Forget his previous form with the nats. We can all see what he is capable of. We need to give him all the minutes we can in hope that he replicates that form with the national team. Sometimes all it takes is for the manager to say, "Relax, you're my guy. Go do your thing." Unfortunately, there's no real indication that Poch is interested in saying anything to anyone if he doesn't absolutely have to.
It’s not nothing to be player of the season in the Dutch league. I’d like to see him move up to the Bundesliga or Premier League and see how he adjusts.
Real questions for all of our players in this position is is it better to be playing in a lesser league right now than chancing sitting on the bench the year before the WC? Ask Pepi how that worked for him last time.
It’s pretty dumb to make transfer decisions based upon a World Cup a year away imo. The one exception maybe being a goalkeeper. If he moves on from PSV this summer it’ll be for the kind of money that can set him up for life. It’s entertainment for us. It’s a career for them.
Possible. In a broad sense, Tillman should be doing fairly well in both what Berhalter and Pochettino are trying to run. I do think there's something here in a more specific sense. PSV is a juggernaut with 11 guys on the field who can pass, receive and play a cohesive form of team ball. That's right in Malik's wheelhouse. He's not overly assertive, but he's skilled. He can wait for the ball to get to him in a good place and he's dangerous once he's there. He's not great at creating that dangerous situation, but he's very good at being a key cog in the chain and he's a good finisher. The US simply needs more out of their 10 than that. We don't have 11 guys who can progress and pass the ball; we have huge gaps in that especially with whatever is going on with Reyna and Dest being out. But even then, we're a skill step down. Pochettino tried to play Malik in a 10 role similar to what Pulisic has played mostly under Poch, and he simply didn't have the aggression or whatever to go back, get the ball, progress it and be in the attack. He stayed forward and let himself get taken out of the game. Does he have the skills to do that? Probably, but he didn't. And when Berhalter had him play the fulcrum point forward -- which is much more like what he does with PSV, he couldn't deliver either as the contact and pressure seemed to bother him. Eh. I'm not sure how that works. That seems reasonable and I would have him on my roster now. However, I'm not sure I would if Reyna was the Gio of old. And I think Luna should have first crack at a starter spot.
He can play in the Top 5 leagues. A lot of guys can. Most of our second tier guys for sure. It's more of a question of whether he can be a plus starter in the Top 5 leagues. Our ceiling doesn't go up if he's Joe Scally or Gianluca Busio.
I don't think there's a chance in hell he's either of those guys at the Big 5 level. Few realized Scally had remotely that level in him when he was suddenly a regular with a Bundesliga side back in '21, and everyone realized Busio had severe big 5 league limitations by the time he had graduated to the U20 level. I've been very happy that he's been able to play good soccer at the Serie B level, and borderline adequate soccer in Serie A. I always felt he simply was too limited a player, for all his particular skill to do it. Tillman is definitely a player Big 5 league teams can use, his problem, I think you're hitting at, is he may need specific quality and caliber of teams to thrive. If he makes an Altidore-like move to a ---- dumpster fire like Sunderland or Hull, or moves to craptacular messes like Bremen and Norwich, like Sargent did, yeah, he's probably gonna struggle, but so would 90-95% of good and elite players. It is hard to shine when you're surrounded by Walmart sell by date sale talent, you need at least adequate talent around you to succeed in not all, but most cases.