Meh, it takes time to gel. So far, only a few players have handed in excellent performances under Poch. But those few include Weah, Puli, and Musah who would take up the '3' in 4231. He could also compete for a spot in the '2'. In any event, depth is nice.
At what point are we overthinking this? It all seems relatively simple.... Tillman is a 22 year old player who's playing really well at very high levels of the game -- PSV are dominating the Eredivisie and have been more than respectable in UCL. He's arguably one of the best players in Holland. PSV are bound to get a big payday when he moves to a bigger team in the not to distant future. He's potentially a humongous piece for the US. The fact that this statement is so far from, "He's bound to be one of our top players of all time," is a testament to our player pool because only a few years ago, Tillman would be on pace to be an all-time great. It seems the floor-ceiling spectrum for him is from decent role player to all time great. The most probable outcome is that he is an important player who appears consistently and starts a good amount, including some big games.
What a ball from Malik Tillman pic.twitter.com/oxVnVtC1rq— USMNT Report 🇺🇸🇹🇷 (@USMNTReport) December 1, 2024
Pure speculation on my part, but I think for Tillman and the USMNT it just comes down to consistently putting in effort off the ball. I do think even if not consistently we have seen flashes that Tillman can very much get attacks started for the US, or at least have us looking dangerous in transition, but I also think there have been instances where he has also looked slow at best and disinterested at worse in helping defensively. You can get away with that at PSV in the Eredivisie against most teams, but as you get into situations where you are going to be asked to do more, it could cost you time. I put a lot of it simply down to youth and Tillman flat out playing for teams where he and his teammates are head and shoulders above the opposition. As he matures, and hopefully when he moves on to a tougher league, he will adjust a bit. But no reason not to call him up or as I've seen some call him a fraud. I do think it's fair to have some questions on how he will translate to more challenging leagues, and I also think until he shows more commitment off ball his chances under Poch will be limited, but I also think we can acknowledge the tools are there and he is having what will be an all time season for a USMNT eligible player with PSV
We've seen him play well in the Champions League for three years now against competition better than the Eredivisie. For Pete's sake, a month ago he had a goal and two assists in a game against the team that finished 3rd in La Liga last year. Last year he had goal contributions against teams from the Bundesliga, La Liga, Ligue 1, etc. And not the crap teams in those leagues other. We're talking Borussia Dortmund. Yes, he beats up on subpar teams in the Eredivisie. Pepi does that. Dest did that. Ledezma is currently doing that. Last I looked, Pepi hasn't scored a goal this season against a team in the top half of the Eredivisie. But those aren't the only games that these guys play well in. Tools and tools and tools. I'm 100% convinced that if an American-born kid moved from MLS to the Eredivisie, and did what Tillman is doing at 22 years old................people would be going nuts for him. Imagine if Luna moved over to the Eredivisie next year and had 24 goal contributions across all competitions. People would be losing their minds. They'd be demanding that the USMNT coach figure out how to take advantage of his skills. Instead, we have this consternation about Tillman. I don't really get it. We hire a coach like Pochettino in order for him figure this out. Malik is 100% one of the most skilled players in our pool. [Tillman is 22 and is currently our 4th leading scorer in the Champions league all-time. And he'll likely pass Beasley into 3rd really soon.]
I don’t understand it either. Over their careers, top players show signs. When they grow, you see it play out. They have these performance surges that plateau, and then they have another, and another, and so on. Malik has done that at each club he has played for. His pattern of evidence speaks for itself. He grows in performance, influence, and stature at every club he has played at professionally since his wee laddie days at Bayern, which were not that long ago. The dude is making a name for himself as a Champions League performer, which will move him up the lists of many clubs who compete for trophies. Malik is on the top player trajectory. There is no reason to doubt that he will continue to rise because it’s all that he’s done thus far. When his career meets its ultimate plateau, we will see signs of that as well. There have been no signs that he is slowing down. As we see in his CL performances, Malik plays up to the competition. He is one that Pochettino will want to have for the World Cup when playing for a win or needing a goal. At this point I would call that a done deal unless things change dramatically. Stylistically, the guy is fantastic to watch. He’s all elegance and grace. He’s the closest thing we have had to an Ozil-type.
Last season he had no goal contributions against the BL or La Liga teams he faced. He had an assist (10 yard square ball for an outside the box curler) against a Ligue 1 team who finished 7th in the table. That was his only goal contribution in the CL last season. It’s also not the case that finishing luck went against him. He had a combined .9 npxG+xA last season in the CL. That’s .16 per 90.
Part of this is that you're not crediting him with the assists transfermarkt gives him for "earning" PK's against Sevilla and Dortmund last year. Some sites give those as assists, some don't. In fairness, the assist against Dortmund was particularly ridiculous as he actually butchered his first touch and was then fouled, the other assist came from some decent in the box maneuvers against Sevilla that lead to a foul and PK. I'm not sure what argument is most convincing, but considering there was zero chance of a goal in either instance whatsoever unless Tillman did what he did, which lead to the fouls, it is more or less, a "kind of" assist in both instances, even if in one case, he played with the touch of a donkey and was insanely lucky that a Dortmund player was even worse in the moment than he was.
I think we can all agree that he's playing much better this year in the UCL. I don't think any of his performances, especially against the better teams, were all that impressive in years prior, but there's not a lot of point in arguing that now.
Folks dig themselves into rhetorical holes then double down to save face. The player just needs more reps with Poch.
The reason I note it is simply you can see an upward trajectory of growth from: '22-'23 (age 20 season) CL Qualifying goal and assist before getting blanked at CL with a truly wretched Rangers squad, zero goal contributions in season against any CL club or Celtic. The following year, (age 21 season) '23-'24 he produces a pile of goal contributions (I think 25-30%) against the top sides in the Eredivisie, as well as 3* assists in CL Group Stage+A knockout game assist that was absurd. In '24-'25, nearly halfway through his age 22 season, he's got 12 goal contributions, so similar pace to last year, and while he's been shut out in games against the better Eredivisie sides (3 matches so far), he's grabbed 5 goal contributions in his last two CL matches. Another note worthy of mentioning is that since tearing his ACL several years ago (I think it was '20 or '21) he's barely missed any time at all (knock on wood), with 5 total club games missed since joining Rangers 2.5 years ago, and then games missed for us during the summer of '23, and that's it. He's been quite healthy, which considering our injury issues, is a big win.
I think part of the issue with Tillman is the limited number of attackers the US is likely to field and who he is up against. He likely is one of our best 11 players in a vacuum, but we need to field guys outside the best 11 since we need things like center backs, a goalie, some steel in midfield, etc. Tilman is an offensive player and we will likely field maybe 4 of those and not all of those will necessarily be heavily tilted toward the attack. If you look at the US in a 4231, you have a goalie and a defensive line he's not involved in, most likely we will have two more appropriate options for the 2 deep midfielders even though he got some time there in the last game. That leaves 4 spots with more attacking players he is in competition for. We'll play Pulisic as an attacker, a striker (Pepi or Balogun right now). So, two spots left. Poch really seems to like Musah who has a better all-around game even if he's less effective attacking. That's 3 of four right there. Want more attacking verve than Musah, well, you have Weah. McKennie is also going to be in the mix. We still haven't seen what will happen when/if Gio gets healthy. We have half a dozen guys who may have the inside track over Tillman for 4 spots. Maybe you drop one of McKennie or Musah into one of the deep spots, still 5 guys for 4 spots before you get to Tillman. Drop them both deep (which would really surprise me, especially once Adams comes back into the team) and you are still looking at a tight fit and Tillman having to beat out someone of quality, playing at just as high or a higher club level and with better past US accomplishments. You're also throwing out your other deep midfield options like Tessmann and Johnny. This is also the big reason we're unlikely to give much playing time outside January camp to MLS options like Luna who would be competing for these same positions, it's already crowded with quality in these spots. A player of his overall quality in some positions would be a shoo-in. But, for a guy who will primarily be in the attack, he has a lot of competition for a small number of places. I see him as a solid option off the bench today and for me it is always important to have some quality attackers waiting to get on the field. We still have a young team and some guys will rise up and others will fade so it's not like he doesn't have a shot at the 11 over the next 18 months if he keeps improving and depending how other spots shake out as well as how we decide to play in a given matchup. Right now, it's not that he's outside the 11 because he's not good. He just faces a lot of competition for limited places and while I would be surprised to see a squad called without him on the roster, I don't think his being on the bench should surprise anyone..
Yep. And because our defense is overall weaker, and because we're likely to let Christian play looser, players who can defend or assist in other roles are going to be seen as better fits. Fans seem to very much value Tillman's stats and his his obvious offensive skills, but I really can't see him playing in an important game over a player like McKennie or Weah. They are both two way players who bring things that Tillman doesn't offensively, even if neither is so precise on the close in passing. Tillman doesn't have Weah's verticality or one on one play, and he doesn't have Wes' over the top passing or X factor, though he probably has the skill to replicate the former (and his aerial game). And, of course, Reyna is a very similar player but far more versatile, IMO. I will say this: I'm not entirely sure that we really know where Poch values Musah overall. He's gotten time at that sort of RW/RWB but that's been with quite a few players out that could affect that. What I do think is accurate is that between his speed and defense, Poch clearly values him as a wide player more right this instant. I think this is true for the next level of club play as well. It's why I still think that a shift slightly backwards probably increases his upside in terms of the best team he gets PT at. But I'm less convinced that he has the activity level to play there.
Yeah, we see this a lot. the number of true global difference makers who get a lot of freedom in attack is extremely small and the vast majority of players need to fill a role on big teams. For the US, we basically have Pulisic and the rest have to fit a role. I do think we've seen some strong growth out of Tillman so I don't think it's impossible he could eventually take a spot over Weah or McKennie, but he will need to continue to grow significantly for it to happen and Poch will need to value what he does bring more than Weah's pace and smart runs or McKennie's physicality and drive. That's a tall order. I honestly think Weah's ability to stretch the field and our lack of other smart runners keeps him in the game because his other traits are not particularly impressive to me. He rarely beats anyone on the dribble without a ton of room to run and his final ball isn't consistent at all which makes his production lacking. I think the ability to deliver a final ball is something extremely valuable that Tillman may have over either of those two and that's what I could see getting him on the field.
Dest being out has caused a lot of patchwork schemes. No direct replacement? Then play Scally as a like-for-like but he can't because he doesn't have the skills. Play Scally as a RB/CB hyrbrid and then Musah all up and down the right side with McKennie swinging over at times. I do remember one of our better triangles was Dest, McKennie and Weah toying with defenders in the right corner waiting for one of them to get free towards goal. That would take Weah away from the left side though so we'll wait and see how that works with possible Reyna going left and Dest back at RB. maybe LW is a spot Tillman can do if everyone else is back.
Sure. Tillman is still somewhat young and he certainly has the skills and physical tools to be one of our best players. And even right now, if you want a guy to play centrally and have other attackers run onto through plays / play off him, he's your best option aside from perhaps Reyna. If we were back in 2019 with Berhalter's original gameplan ... he'd be perfect for the original 8/10 role. I could see a gameplan right now where we have Tillman central, either playing behind a striker with two wingers in the half space or simply behind two faster strikers and they play off him to get behind the lines. Pulisic brings it up, pass to Tillman, who has a choice to hit a streaking Pulisic or Weah (or even McKennie), who either attack the goal or hit it to a striker (or if Tillman's feeling frisky, him following). Poch ran a lot of the 121 central attack dynamic with four guys who could all flip around and Tillman would fill that mold. So would a three man version with him as a 10 or a false 9, if he could get his work rate up a bit. The questions there would all be hold do you set up the defense. And that's the rub. The four man version of that is pretty offensive up front for a team that likes to counter press. The three man version works better but you are sitting a striker. Tillman's style offensively fits Pochettino pretty well. But he'd had a better shot at PT right now if our talent level were higher relative to the competition. I think a lot of the decisions against Jamaica were driven by defensive concerns over their wingers, for example. I think Tillman can both play better for us now and improve over time. But when people talk about unlocking him or being a Top 5 player for us ... I think the reality is that if we're really healthy ... he's not. And if we're not really healthy, we need a player in his position to really do a lot of things. Which hasn't been his jam.
Good discussion on Malik's personality. Consistent with Earnie's comments when he bought him and what PSV are working on with Malik.
Was left off the U.S soccer end of year nominees despite his PSV/Champions League performances. Got to show it for the National Team too.
It is a steep pyramid. Tillman is moving up. Guys like Aaronson and LDLT are being crowed out. Generally, the nationally team only needs to go two deep. When there are injuries three deep. And rarely when there is a cluster of injuries at a position four or more deep. Tillman has arrived at the two deep level. Cracking the first 11 when everyone is healthy seems unlikely.