Malik Tillman

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Maximum Optimal, May 31, 2022.

  1. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    He had 11 combined tackles and interceptions in the match against Zwolle. He had not had more than 6 in any other match this season. Last season he only had more than 5 combined tackles and interceptions twice, he had 6 against BVB in the first leg and 8 against Volendam in the league.
     
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  2. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Tackles plus interceptions. He's pointing out that Tillman had a defensively active day. Many of us have been pointing out for some time that Tillman's effort and aggression tends to wane, and that he usually plays a complimentary piece to other more aggressive players who dictate the match, more passenger than driver. 11 tackles plus interceptions in a match would seem to contradict that.
     
  3. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nobody who watches him play for PSV would say that. Earnie Stewart himself highlighted Tillman's defensive potential and the number of balls he wins when acquired him for good this summer.

    Tillman is leading PSV in T&I, not Veerman, Shouten, Till, or Saibari.

    Who are PSV's drivers?
     
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  4. In this sunday's Dutch footballshow Studio Voetbal they were talking about Malik and highlighted his defensive contributions.
    So I'm a bit confused about the perception he's "lacking" in defensive efforts.
     
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  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It shouldn't be confusing. I really can't see how people watch full games of him and can't see him floating in and out.

    PSV did ask him to play a defensive role against PSG and he did do well there, apparently, focusing on it. And apparently, his impact was higher against Zwolle. That's great.

    But if you've watched any of him in a typical game in an attacking role, he takes plays off. Once in a while, he will press strongly and win a turnover, but he's often lax in playing passing lanes or consistently applying pressure.

    It doesn't hurt PSV because their opponents can't do much against them, but it becomes much more apparent for the US when we are playing a physical team or a team more our level.
     
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  6. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Because he generally has been.
     
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  7. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Things change. Like Malik has been subbed out at half multiple times to get his head in the game. Now that it’s taken hold great, but don’t pretend like he was always a 100% locked in MJ-style killer.
     
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  8. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Earnie Stewart watches him play a bit which is why he paid $12M to sign him.

    He’s a special player, special in every way. Playing in tight spaces, being able to play one versus one. His link up play is great. Then what a lot of people don’t know is his defensive work rate and the number of balls he takes away from people in midfield. It’s uncanny. His development has been fantastic.”

    https://www.instagram.com/ussoccerplus/p/C4jUjkZvN9A/
     
  9. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Um, I think you misread. me. I meant that he has generally been a fairly lax passenger rather than a driver. Because, generally, he has been.

    I remain open to evidence. This is evidence to the contrary.
     
  10. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    No, I did not. My post was a “yes, and”.
     
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  11. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    TimB4Last repped this.
  12. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Bosz subbed Malik out at half for indifferent performances on 10/29/23 against Ajax, 3/30/23 against NEC Nijmegen, and 8/18/24 against Almelo. I’m not including 9/28/24 because if my memory serves me right he was fine and they had a CL match they wanted him fresh for.

    Then around 9/6/2024 this guy you might have heard of, Maurizio Pochettino, said that Malik needs to become more consistently competitive/intense to unlock his potential. I’ll trust my eyes and Poch’s. I said he has improved, and he has, hopefully there is no backsliding into passivity.
     
  13. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Johnny really did have to sit out to recoup his leg this last window which was 2 friendlies. The difference in how he performed after rest was considerable improvement.
     
  14. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    https://www.espn.nl/voetbal/artikel...gd-mijn-moeder-sliep-voor-ons-in-de-woonkamer

    Continued

     
  15. LuckofLichaj2

    LuckofLichaj2 Member

    Oct 14, 2021
  16. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I don't really understand the amount of criticism this guy gets.

    I remember Jermaine Jones saying he felt he didn't get the appreciation for his contributions to the US than he would have gotten if he was US-born.

    When you see the criticism a player like Malik gets, you understand comments like that.

    For heaven's sake, Malik Tillman is 22. Still very much developing and a work in progress.

    It's Pochettino's job to figure out how he fits into the jigsaw puzzle of the USMNT.
    What I do know is that Poch called Malik an "unbelievable talent" in a recent interview Pochettino has forgotten more about soccer today than I'll know in my entire life. So I do take him at his word on that..................

    Malik will figure it out or he won't.
    The incessant hammering of him is a little silly, though.

    Malik is a 22 year old that played in the Champions League group stages last year. Meanwhile, the board throbs for 21 year old Diego Luna of Real Salt Lake.
     
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  17. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Poch also said that for Malik to realize his enormous potential he needs to become more competitive, more intense.

    Basically Malik fixing something within his control would be one of the best things that could happen to the national team. So far he has one of the largest deltas between club performance level and national team level of any player in USMNT history. That’s why he’s the subject of so much discussion. I think it should just tend to even out and fix itself, but then again, I always gave Chandler the benefit of the doubt because of his club form.
     
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  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think people have this idea that anything mental is simply a matter of deciding to do something, but changing personal tendencies takes a long, concerted effort and can be more difficult to actually improving physical elements.

    For Malik to actually be the play he can is going to take a material level of work on his part.

    Poch can help improve his US efforts by simply limiting his role as it is limited at PSV. The numbers won't be as good because the talent gap and club/international dynamic, but if he doesn't have to come back for the ball, and he can have players like Pulisic play off him and take the lead, and we're fine with inconsistent defense ... yeah, he will look pretty good at times.

    Asking him to be the #1 option, or to help in the build up, or to play constant defense will simply require him to work at that. But it isn't as simple as "oh, I'm going to try." He floats. That's who he is. Changing that is hard work.
     
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  19. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    It's pretty simple.

    He's been dreadful for the USMNT.
     
  20. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    So has Cardoso....

    Still plenty of time for both of them to pick it up.
     
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  21. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is no coincidence that the same people who are shitting on Tillman also incessantly shat on JJ.
     
  22. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since you insist on being clueless.

    2:53 Malik great pressure forcs a poor Jamaica pass.
    3:05 Malik pressures and wins the ball leading to a 3 v 1 transition that the US should have scored on
    3:55 Malik with great vision drops the ball on Puli's foot from a pass from the half way line. With a good touch Puli is in on goal.

    There are a few more ...

     
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  23. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very promising sign for Tillman that he has picked up a true hater in his BS thread just like McKennie :thumbsup:
     
  24. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    #249 grandinquisitor28, Nov 1, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2024
    I think its simply a combo of two things people hate:

    1. A sense of unearned caps based on "in the shirt" games where he's been remarkably non-goal dangerous for an attacking field player.

    2. From a fan base that's historically been inclined to hate diving and soft players and a lack of intensity, and prized toughness, to have players that are soft, lack intensity AND aren't contributing, it's for many, infuriating as player traits.

    It doesn't matter that he's been productive elsewhere, if he isn't doing it here, if you combine that with a sense of softness, and a lack of intensity, it's a true killer.

    Simple as that. I kind of get it, especially if I put my old soccer coach hat on and remember something as simple and basic as faculty vs student games at schools I used to work at, and one of the things that always stuck out is that despite having the "slackers" rep from the 90's, gen x teachers and early millennial teachers would always wipe the floor with younger and more athletic teenagers because we ALWAYS played with significantly more intensity, even in fun scrimmages during the season. It was one of those things that was undeniable. For sure there are a gazillion athletes who play with great intensity these days, but on average, if you take silent generation, boomers, gen xers, or early millenials, and put them out there with later millenials or gen z'ers, as long as the athleticism difference isn't too wide, the adults are going to put the wood to them based on intensity alone because we grew up in an environment where not playing with intensity was totally unacceptable pretty much everywhere. So I guess I can see some aspects of the critique of him from there.

    But yeah 1.) and 2) are precisely why Tillman gets so much stick. When you combine a lack of intensity, a perception of softness, with a lack of production? Well, a ton of people are going to want to "turn the page" immediately.
     
  25. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Admittedly I was probably a Roldan hater, but I think the fact that he earned 37 caps and nearly 1700 minutes before we finally moved on. Tillman's had far fewer caps and 1/3 the minutes, and unlike Roldan, he's in demand in Europe, but yeah, it's a little bit of me being forgiving of Tillman in a way I wasn't with Roldan, and the basic reason why for me is that Tillman has produced for CL qualifying, to some extent at the CL level, has drawn interest for transfers from basically all the big 5 leagues including the biggest in the EPL, and is valued generally as a 20 mill plus player. That's orders of magnitude more valuable than Roldan, and the scouting interest in his talent is equally orders of magnitude stronger so I'm automatically going to be more forgiving period. Eventually he'll be dropped if we can't figure out a way for him to work and function effectively in American set ups, but so long as he's playing well in Europe and drawing this much superlative interest, its going to be damn hard to justify passing on him. We can count on 1 hand, maybe 2, guys as valued by the European scouting market as Tillman has been EVER. I'm sorry, but I'm gonna give guys like that more chances, not less, to figure it out. It's another thing entirely when its a Roldan, or a flash in the pan like Hoppe or whatever.
     

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