Make Copa America 4 year west hemisphere tournament

Oh really? Out of the 22 players of that Copa America team only 9 were called up to the WC.

 

I don't know where all the CONCACAF guys get all this talk about mergers and all Americas cup, DOn't you get it ??? we want nothing to do with you, is very simple, Copa America is our Tournament is the oldest tournament in the world , and we will not change the name because U feel left out.
Other than MExico and the U.S there isn't any other team that can help our tournament get to the level of the Eurocup, even with them it still will not at the level, U guys think the addition of Guatemala and Cayman Islands will help us get there? I think not. Anyways I Nicolas Leoz is on the record as saying that it will not happen , he doesn't think much about your league and thinks that something like that will just devalue our cup, I can still remember the big devate 10 years ago just to let U.S and Mexico in the cup, but to be fair I think Mexico has earned the right to be there.

 

Both USA and Mexico played in the 1993 Copa America (13 years ago) and I doubt they were invited at the last minute.

Regardless, the Football world has changed over the last 10-20 years and one result is that the Copa America has been devalued, even Brazil and Argentina don't send their top team any more. On the other hand the Euro gained both popularity and prestige when it changed from 8 teams to 16 teams (in 1996).

If the 6 non-CSF teams are as bad as you think they will be eliminated in the group stage and none of the CSF will have to play more games then they do today. Why do you think that this will devalue this tournament?

If CSF doesn't do something, this might become a U21 plus 2nd tier players tournament and not the great championships that it used to be. Keep in mind that more and more star players from south America play in Europe and more and more European clubs don't want their players play in the Copa America (or for the NT in general).

 

You mean a minority of Europeans.
It's great that Europe has half the world's top 32 teams, but the other half are deprived of the competition they deserve.
UEFA would lose little if anything by switching from EC to WC, while there is much to gain for everyone else.

 

that’s right, when your continent has half of w.c spots, is very obvious that continent has the bigger chances to make a good performance

i would like to see a w.c with only 5 European teams, do u think in that case we'd see 4 european teams in semifinals???/

and let's give the actual 16 European w.c spots to another continent like Africa or Asia they don’t have the best football in the world, but we'll see them in the second round, in quarterfinals, semifinals, and final, only because they are the majority and is obvious that would happen

 

When there would only be 5 European teams, then I'm 100% certain that all 5 reach the knock-out stages, at least 3 or 4 will be in the QF's and the semifinals would be made up by any of the following 7 teams: this 5 European teams, Brazil and Argentina.
The teams from the rest of the World are just not good enough yet to give that confederations the same amount of spots as Europe.

Just look at the precentage of teams reaching the last 16 and the QF's this year:

Europe: 71% in last 16, 43% in QF's
South America: 75% in last 16, 50% in QF's
CONCACAF: 25% in last 16, 0% in QF's
Africa: 20% in last 16, 0% in QF's
Asia/Oceania: 20% in last 16, 0% in QF's

According to statistics every confederation should have 50% of it's teams in the last 16 and 25% in the QF's, so it's clear that Europe and South America teams are much better at the moment than the teams of the other confederations, so it wouldn't be right to give them as much spots as Europe.

 

I have nothing against that North and South America creates one big tournament that is played the same year as the EC, but I don't see why you want to abolish the EC.

 

It's not our (Europe's) fault that the other continents can't arrange meaningful tournaments. Uefa have managed to make a tournament that's almost as exciting and prestigious as the World Cup. There's nothing stopping Concacaf or Conmebol doing the same.

France had to get past Switzerland and Spain. Italy had to get past the Ukraine and the Czech Republic. Portugal had to get past England and Holland. Germany had to get past Sweden and Poland.

Do you think that instead of playing England, Holland, Sweden or Spain, they'd instead played the non-qualifiers from South America, Asia and Africa like Colombia, Morocco or Uzbekistan, that their routes to the final would have been harder?

In fact all four teams would have got to the semis with even more ease. Remember that the South American teams were knocked out by European teams. Adding Colombia, Uruguay, Bolivia and Venezuela would not have stopped Argentina throwing away the lead or Brazil being a complete shambles.

 

It would have been easier for France, Portugal, ITaly, and Germany, had they all qualified, to make the semis. It would have been harder for Europe to send 4 of its 6, instead of 14, teams to the semifinals.

Likewise, it would have been easier for Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, and the Ivory Coast to make the semis, and more likely that one of them would have accomplished this.

Your logic is twisted. It may have not "stopped Argentina from throwing away the lead" but it may have stopped Argentina from having to play the hosts in the quarterfinals. Brazil may have not played any better, but France probably would not have qualified given their difficulties with Israel and Ireland.

Also, I don't think the poster is saying that Europe is to blame for having a more balanced conference (I wouldn't say better, since they've won less WCs than South America, and they've won 0 outside of Europe, whereas South America has won in North America (3 times), Asia, and Europe). I think the poster is saying that the interest of football overall should be considered, and that a WC every two years would be more utilitarian.

Of course, without the EURO, how would England stand a chance to win anything?

 

Exactly. The European Championships have been built up into a vastly successful tournament from relatively small beginnings - orginally just a four team finals tournament and only in '96 that it became a sixteen team tournament. I love the EC because the first round is more competitive than the WC and you see more matchups between big (and often bitter!) European rivals. The rotw is just going to have to live with the fact that the EC is not going away.

Where some other confederations have shot themselves in the foot, imo, is by attempting to hold two yearly events, half of which then clash with WC qualifying and aren't treated seriously by competing teams. A pre-requiste in building these tournaments up is moving to a four yearly cycle, which I believe Copa America is doing (?). Having a combined Americas tournament with qualification would be great, particularly as CONCACAF seems clueless in organizing a credible competition for itself.

 

Yes, "Uefa has managed to make a tournament that's almost as exciting and prestigious as the World Cup", but why not replace it with a tournament that is exactly as exciting and prestigious as the World Cup?

How about "geography?".
To get 16 teams of that caliber we'd have to bring in every continent other than Europe. It wouldn't just be a local tournament.

 

The advantage of Confederations tournaments is that they can help built the game within a confederation. It gives teams who only have a marginal chance of WC qualfication the opportunity to play against better teams in the region. It also allows countries that have no hope of ever hosting a WC the opportunity of having a finals competition in their country.

 

I didn't realize you were elected President of FIFA. If FIFA wants a 2 year WC it will make one, and I doubt UEFA will boycott it.
If you prefer Slovenia and Poland to Brazil, Ivory Coast, Mexico and Korea, then yes the EC first round is more competitive.

Well I agree that a four year local tournament would be better attended than a two year local tournament but people really aren't that excited about seeing Mexico playing the US over and over with the occaisional guest team from who knows where, so I doubt there's much CONCACAF could do on its own. You need a solid number of top teams to make a great tournament.

Even combining with CONMEBOL wouldn't yield 16 WC-caliber teams. You call for an Americas tournament "with qualifying". How many of the south american teams should fail to qualify?? There are only 10.
Basically you are patting UEFA on the back for achieving something it alone is suited for, and ideally suited at that.

 

UEFA holds the trump cards here as a WC without European teams isn't much of a World CUp given that a clear majority of the best teams come from Europe. Given the huge success the EC now is in terms of both revenue generation and developing the game in Europe (particularly with its imaginative selection of hosts) there is no way that UEFA would agree to scrapping the EC for a WC every two years.

The accurate comparsion is Slovenia and Poland to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Togo,, Japan, Angola etc. The bottom line is that a 16 team EC first round is more competitive than a 32 team WC first round, because there is a smaller percentage of hopeless teams in the former.

I think 16 teams would be fine, just as Africa seems to manage a pretty reasonable tournament with 16.

And a boatload in CONCACAF. A joint tournament by defintion would need qualifiers. The number of South American teams would depend on how well they did against CONCACAF teams in qualifying.

There's no reason why a four yearly Cup of the Americas couldn't be a credible tournament. Hardly Europe's fault that the current Copa America and, particuarly, Gold Cup are organized so poorly. Put your own house in order before moaning about Europe's success.

 

Asia and Oceania are not one confederation, nor do they have a common qualifying system. AFC had 0% qualify and OFC had 100%. If you want to group OFC with anyone then they should be grouped with CONMEBOL as thats who they played in qualifying.

 

Then why do we get invites all of the time?

 

Europe doesn't hold anything. Go ahead boycott the World Cup. Not gonna happen. If it did happen, that would be fine by me, as the rest of the world would get a quality tournament every two years which is what I'm after.

Well quality teams like Nigeria, Cameroon, Senegal, Uruguay and Colombia didn't even make the Cup and I doubt you can name 5 European non-qualifiers who are better than that. Those teams could hardly have done worse than Serbia. Togo and Angola were lucky to qualify but that's why they play the qualifiers on grass not paper. Last time it was Ireland in and Holland out.
To go by one (albeit dubious) objective standard, 15 of the FIFA top ranked 32 teams are non-European so really there's not much objective difference.
This isn't what this debate is about anyway, we should agree to disagree.

I go back to geography. You could practically fit Europe inside the United States, yet any travel to Argentina or Canada is a huge undertaking for teams on the wrong side of the equator, and developing-world economics doesn't help.

Well I've already explained why it's so much easier for Europe to hold a successful tournament. You seem to think that tiny broke-ass Carribbean nations flying back and forth to Buenos Aires every four years is all that's needed to solve the "poor organization" that's holding back millions from attending the Gold Cup, and I don't. (Though I'd rather have this than the current format, but CONMEBOL doesn't want us for the same reason UEFA doesn't).
We both know however, that a World Cup every two years would be a smash hit watched by billions around the globe.

 

It'll be better with a Copa America every 4 years, the geograpy won't be a problem as the Caribbean can have their own qualifiying group or something so they don't have to travel.

 

I guess U didn't read the part where I said that USA and Mexico are the only decent teams in CONCACAF, also U I guess U didn't see the part where I said Mexico has earned the right to be there.

If there were 6 half decent teams in CONCACAF they would have invited them already, but there aren't and even though Copa America's prestige has been going down lately they still refuse to even consider the Idea of having a Copa America that includes Concaf, U know why?? because they think that even a bunch of subs and young kids , are better than having small islands and most central American teams in the cup.

The General feeling in South America is that Mexico is a good team that has something to offer to the tournaments (libertadores too) and I'm pretty sure most of us would like to see Team USA there too , but that's about il.

 

Okay Im kinda confused so somebody might wanna clear this up for me. Tell me what this post is about. This is what Im getting so far. I know the world cup and Euro cup are every 4 years. And it works out that 2 years after each world cup is a euro cup. It seems World Cup is thinking of chaning it to become a tournament every 2 years. This would mean that UEFA (the European sopccer group thingy) would have to decide between these world cups and their Euro cup. Am I getting this right so far?

It also seems that ppl are saying there should be other tournaments such as Euro cup with other soccer groups but becuase of geography these would be difficult to do. Am I getting this right?

 

Yea, you're getting it right but I don't think FIFA has any plans to change to every 2 year World Cups, it is just some members here who wants to do that and some who don't.

 

Well, that's settled then. WC every four years, EC every four years with a "Rest of the World" Cup the same year. Moaning over.

 

You're right, but as Australia is now a member of AFC I have grouped them with Asia to give an idea of how teams performed that are now in the same confederation.

 

1 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Roberto Abbondanzieri [/FONT]​

ARQ2 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Pablo Cavallero [/FONT]​

ARQ3 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Roberto Ayala [/FONT]​

DEF4 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fabricio Coloccini [/FONT]​

DEF5 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Gabriel Heinze [/FONT]​

DEF6 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Clemente Rodríguez [/FONT]​

DEF7 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Facundo Quiroga [/FONT]​

DEF8 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Leandro Fernández [/FONT]​

DEF9 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cristian González [/FONT]​

VOL10 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Javier Zanetti [/FONT]​

VOL11 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Juan Pablo Sorín [/FONT]​

VOL12 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Andrés D'Alessandro [/FONT]​

VOL13 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Javier Mascherano [/FONT]​

VOL14 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nicolás Medina [/FONT]​

VOL15 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Luis González [/FONT]​

VOL16 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mariano González [/FONT]​

VOL17 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Diego Placente [/FONT]​

VOL18 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mauro Rosales [/FONT]​

DEL19 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Javier Saviola [/FONT]​

DEL20 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Luciano Figueroa [/FONT]​

DEL21 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]César Delgado [/FONT]​

DEL22 -

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Carlos Tevez [/FONT]​

DEL































This roster is a pretty heavy side that played Peru CA '04. Mind you in 2
years things changed ( I mean I think Zanetti deserved a spot, Messi appeared, and DAlessandro dissapeared) , but if you look at Tevez, Saviola, Lucho, Mascherano, Sorin, Heinze, Colocinni, YAyala, el pato... This was the backbone of your WC squad...

by the way I miss Scruffy Duffy's!

 

New format about COPA AMERICA

I hope that the Copa America will be became a competition by 16 teams like Europe Cup, Asia Cup and Africa Cup: 10 teams of the Conmebol, of course and 6 of the CONCACAF ( USA, MEXICO, CANADA, COSTA RICA and other 2 different every competition ).
What is your opinion?