The main one you forgot is Ligue 1, a league that enjoys a domestic tv deal worth EUR 668 million per year. Also, Kiev is in Ukraine. Personally I wouldn't rank Scotland very highly, they are about to drop out of the UEFA Top 20. Turkey, Belgium, Denmark and Switzerland however deserve a mention. There is also the K-League (the best league in Asia)
For sure the French league is easily the 5th best European league. Also to not derail this thread, here are some than compare Leagues. https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1589863&page=5 https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1397406&page=18
You either A - highly underestimate HS football in Texas B - highly overrate the standard of JC football, period C - don't really know the state of football in Texas ... If it were that easy, the WNBA/Minor League Baseball/Semi-Pro Football etc etc would have much higher att numbers than they do.
Are you saying the level of play in TX high schools is higher than JuCo? Prove it. Are you attributing this league's attendance to its quality of play? If so, that's hard to believe considering it gets beaten by Central American and Caribbean clubs on a regular basis.
Relative, is the highest in the USA, if fans only followed the best soccer in the world then there would only be leagues in Spain and England. Argentina has better attendance than Brazil, yet Brazil has better teams (by Libertadores records). Shit look at college Football vs NFL, Many College Schools get higher attendance than NFL teams, yet the game quality is much better in the NFL. I would say the UFL has better football quality than College Football yet they averaged less than 15K per game (UFL)
You're leaving out loads of leagues As mentioned above, France, Russia, Also Turkey, Ukraine, Belgium. There's probably a few others like Swizerland, Austria etc that the MLS is no better than. Maybe the Uruguay League too. Also, The League Championship is definitely higher level than the MLS, and probably a few other 2nd tier championships as well. Now way the MLS is anywhere near 12-15. Somewhere around 20th-40th would be a better estimate.
I live in Texas and played both HS and College ball here. I know it. You made the ridiculous blanket claim that HS football in Texas is low quality, and that JuCo was better (again, blanket). I called you on it. The onus is on you to back your retarded claim. Do you not even remember what you wrote ? You specifically mentioned the reason for attendance being the "high number of cheap, and many times free tickets." I was talking about (again an asinine) assumption of yours that the league only gets people in the stadiums because of cheap/free tickets. American sports fans don't really work like that on any kind of large level. If it were the case, the WNBA etc etc would see much higher attendance. Follow now or do I need to go even slower ? People go to the MLS matches because they want to regardless of perceived quality or ticket price.
Low quality compared to the pros. And high school would be lower than college by definition. So the onus is on you to back it up. Do you know how to read? Read my post again. "Main" does not equal "only". You don't know English too well. Perhaps you're a foreigner or illiterate. Go back and read my post and look up the words I use since you obviously don't know the language. I said "main reason", not "only reason". Not regardless at all. If prices were higher, attendance would be less. If quality were higher, attendance would be more. As I said, the main reason is low price for tix. If you don't know the difference between "main" and "only", then take an ESL class. You need it.
So your proof of how HS is lower quality than college, is to talk about pro ball ? Holy hell. WTF are you even talking about "by definition" ? HS is a lower level educational institute than college in terms of when you go to each level. However, not in all cases is college on a higher level of education than HS. Everything has degrees of variance. You're also talking about junior college, not full fledged 4 year schools or even Division 1 level. Since you're so into definitions, you should check out just what a junior college is. It's help out your understanding quite a bit. Obviously I know how to read, but deciphering your drivel is a separate task in of itself. "Main" has a pretty strong connotation. You're essentially saying that if the MLS tickets weren't cheap and "many times" free, that there'd be nobody in the stands hardly. Perhaps rather than worrying about me reading, you should worry about understanding the words you use and what their connotation is when put into sentences. Things change with tone/implication/opinion. There's more to it than a simple definition of a word. ESL my ass ... you need language class. The quality is getting better ... and the attendance/ticket prices are getting higher as well. I know, you're having trouble understanding that at the moment. LOL retards.
You're not proving anything here. I was 100% clear and concise. You're not too bright. No, that's not what I'm saying. Main means exactly what it means. Do I really have to link the definition for you? There should be an education requirement for posting here. Ok kid, I'll spell it out for you. Say you got 10 fans who go to a game for 9 different reasons. The main reason would be the one that motivates 2 fans. This is probably still too much for your brain. Don't make excuses because you couldn't comprehend. It's your problem if you take a different connotation than what was written. You can't assume anything more than what's written. Don't put words into people's mouths. You're the one who trolled because you couldn't comprehend English. I understand that fully, and what you said is pretty much irrelevant to the topic. But keep trolling, it shows your level. You describe yourself well.
Any way you wanna parse it, it's total bullshit. The Seattle Sounders attendance, by itself, at 38,000+, would outnumber the people who are getting in free or 'massively discounted' (unless in that figure you're counting normal ~20% group rate discounts) in the entire league in a week.
I'm waiting for you to provide anything to suggest your (outside) opinion that JuCo college football is better than HS football. I've not only given myself as an example (having grown up, lived, played HS, and played college ball here in Texas against all levels of football here), but also admitted that we're dealing with levels of variance withing both HS and college ball. You're flat out giving a blanket statement and doing nothing else .... I'm not worried about the Presidential approval poll not being in my favor on this one. LOL wow ... in that example, there actually isn't a "main" reason. On top of language classes, you need reasoning as well. I'm not the one making excuses. You're pretty defensive for someone that says he's right, yet has done nothing to provide evidence of such claim. I challenged you on a blanket statement you made and rather than provide evidence of how your statement is true, you've fallen into a troll war. You took the bait rather easily, and I'm willing to bet it's because you got caught with your pants down and you simply don't know what to do. The easiest thing is to get defensive and try everything to keep from backing up your point ... which is exactly what you've done. So please, by all means, show how right you are .... I dare you. I mean, it's not like you've already shifted the goal posts from "Juco is better" to "college is by definition higher quality" to "compared to the pros" .. or anything also: and the fact, for example: Houston has already sold out of it's 1825$ VIP level seats, it's 1800$ field level seats, it's 1725$ club level seats ... actually they're sold out of every season ticket package that costs more than 700$ Your theory is about as weak as your defense for your Juco/HS football statement, if not weaker.
So you admit to troll baiting me. Pretty juvenile. I told you the onus was on you regarding Juco. I visit this website from time to time: http://jcgridiron.rivals.com/default.asp Juco recruits good players. I don't think the average HS team would beat the avg Juco team. We're talking HS gridiron as a whole, not just the best teams in TX. main [meyn] Show IPA adjective 1. chief in size, extent, or importance; principal; leading If a reason outnumbers the rest, it is the leading reason, in other words, the MAIN reason. So I do know language and reasoning better than you. Yes, I know there are fans who would pay top dollar to go to games in this league. But don't underestimate the amount who go mainly because of the affordable prices. I've talked to a good number of people, and it seems that that reason outnumbers those who go because of quality of play or sheer love for their team regardless of price. It may not grossly outnumber the rest, but from what I've seen, it still does, thus making it the main reason. The leading reason. Obviously, there's no way to prove it concretely, but neither are the other theories. You're the one who got defensive and trolled. You gotta remember that the posters on this site represent the minority of fans. There aren't that many hardcores out there, there are more casuals. I stand by my theory, go ahead and stand by yours. Neither can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
No, anyone would have read your original post as a cheap shot. The implication--that you could basically discount almost anything enough and get people to show up--was as clear as it was wrong. The sports graveyard is littered with leagues that offered cheap/free tickets but weren't worth the price at free. (I notice, btw, that you changed 'cheap, and in many cases free' to 'affordable' later on. Well, Mr. Webster, those words ain't synonyms.) As is his want, HttK chose perhaps the worst method of dissecting your statement, which is to actually engage on the 'debate' about HS vs Juco, a debate that is both totally irrelevant to the point and completely trivial. . . . . . . . Other than that it's a logical contradiction on its face. You're arguing that HS is worse than Juco, but that it attends better because tickets are cheap. . . . umm, did you think Juco tickets were expensive? Maybe, just maybe, there's a different motivating factor of why people go to HS games? That's a classic troll technique, too: make a tendentious statement, affect supreme confidence, provide no proof or even rational explanation for it, and when confronted back down to 'well no one can prove anything.' You taunted the guy a few posts back for not proving anything, so where are we?
The league averaged 17,844 per match last year. Here's the season ticket totals I could find and verify as completely accurate or pretty damn close (also a thread here on BigSoccer https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1848332): Toronto: 16K RSL: 7-8K Vancouver: 15-16K Philly: 12-13K SKC: 11K Seattle: 32K (from 2010, no number but up in 2011) Portland: 11K That trend line is certainly on the side of paying for the tickets rather than going to the match simply because they tickets are "cheap" and "many times free."
I disagree, but whatever. It really is hard to measure. I see most of those leagues as debatable as to being better, and definitly not out and out better. Championship I disagree with. Turkey, Switzerland and Belgium I disagree with. They might have a team or 2 that are better than our best, but not as a league. (I dont use "they play in the Champions League" as automatic criteria as being better. Not saying you do, but that is an arguement I sometimes hear from other..)
Well that is the issue, most leagues are ranked by their top few teams, so if a league has 3 good teams but 13 shitty teams, that league will rank better than a league with 16 average teams, that is the only objective way to rank leagues, everything else is speculation. (Even that only works with in their Continental Federation).
I disagree, but whatever. It really is hard to measure. I see most of those leagues as debatable as to being better, and definitly not out and out better. Championship I disagree with. Turkey, Switzerland and Belgium I disagree with. They might have a team or 2 that are better than our best, but not as a league. (I dont use "they play in the Champions League" as automatic criteria as being better. Not saying you do, but that is an arguement I sometimes hear from other..)
In the end leagues are ranked by the best they have got to offer. Nobody cares about the average finish of an Olympic delegation, it's about the medals you bring home. It's the nature of sports. It's all about the best. As for MLS, I would say it will soon be knocking on the door of the Top 20.
Soon to me would be post 2015. 2014 is going to be an important year for MLS, that is when all the TV deals expire, can MLS get more than the 28-32 Million per year (more if we include local and Canada) MLS gets starting next year. Also 2015 is when the next CBA agreement expires; we will see what the CAP gets set at after that year.
Uefa cl isn't the club world cup but it gets more attention. Euro cup prob beats the confed cup in ratings. Where was the parade when USA beat Spain??? People believe crap. Look at attendance for Atlanta 96 more ppl went to see brazil than to see more worthy teams
I'm not so sure about that. I think people realize that you can't judge the Scottish Premier League based on the Old Firm.
I think people do rank them based on the top 2 teams, but you are right it usually comes with but after those two the league sucks. The issue is that those two teams are the teams that represent their league in European competition, so what ever ranking that league gets is because of those teams. Spain can be another league, some people think that La Liga is better than the EPL, because Barca and R.M. may be the best two teams in the world (today, we will see if RM chokes again in the CL) but the EPL has a few more teams that are almost as good as those two (well as RM in prior years, no team is as good as Barca). The issue that holds Spain back and why is considered #2 by most is the that EPL has more teams that do better in the Champions than the Spanish teams, so most rankings come down to how well your top teams (be it 1 or 5) do in the International competitions, the better they do the more teams you get (money has a lot to do with it also) the more teams you have in the competition the more likely that some of them will crash and burn like the other Spanish teams this (and most) years.