Los 23 que viajan (R)

Discussion in 'Chile: Selecciones Nacionales' started by MetroChile, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. chewie4917

    chewie4917 Member

    Sep 10, 2011
    I think that you’re right.

    Scientific evidence (for males) shows that Chileans, in general, are only of short stature compared to many of the wealthy European countries and the likes of the United States, Canada and Australia. Chile’s average height exceeds that of all North American countries with the exception of the United States and Canada. In South America, Chile is 4th, as the following list (http://www.averageheight.co/average-male-height-by-country) demonstrates:

    1. Argentina (1.7348)
    2. Brazil (1.731)
    3. Uruguay (1.718)
    4. Chile (1.71)
    5. Colombia (1.695)
    6. Paraguay (1.69)
    6. Venezuela (1.69)
    8. Peru (1.64)
    9. Ecuador (1.635)
    10. Bolivia (1.6)

    Even in calculations offered by other sources, the top 10 list doesn’t change much, with Uruguay and Argentina sometimes finding themselves in the top 2 positions, but never reaching an average height of above mid or high 1.73m. Gradual, silenced genocides over centuries (e.g. against Amerindian and African populations) and immigration policies (aimed at nationalising European immigrants) have largely allowed a country like Argentina to achieve this. Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia are at the opposite end. In any case, Brazil is usually in the top 3 and Chile is situated in position 4 in a number of other sources, always ahead of the likes of Colombia and Paraguay, two countries that have had no problems developing tall and competitive central defenders over the years.

    I can’t verify whether or not the tall players in Chile, at youth level, are the victims of a ‘weeding out’ process, but if this is true, then it is a problem with the football culture. Again, I can’t verify this. If this is indeed true and is a common occurrence throughout the regions, then rattle the cage a bit and implement change.

    I maintain my position on the value of a separate youth development organisation for football, which would only be accountable to the ANFP. If that alleged aspect of the culture is stubborn and persists and predominantly favours the usual types of players at local club level, then the mentioned organisation can exist as the alternative that sets the standard nationally. Such an institution would leave bias at the door, and would operate professionally, drawing on sports science and the knowledge and experience of successful systems from abroad. The cultural dilemma that we have been discussing would end here.
     
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  2. Ohiginiano

    Ohiginiano Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    El Teniente Stadium
    Club:
    O Higgins Rancagua
    Si hacemos "memoria" los defensas que llevamos a Francia 98 Margas, Reyes y Miguel Ramirez eran mas altos que todos los que tenemos ahora y el 2010 con Bielsa. Es un asunto generacional creo yo.
     
  3. Yañez

    Yañez Member+

    Oct 11, 2005
    Santiago, Llolleo
    Club:
    Univ de Chile
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Great post.
     
  4. JAIME CHILE

    JAIME CHILE Member+

    Apr 26, 2006
    V.Alemana y Stgo
    Club:
    Cobreloa Calama
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Chile siempre ha tenido centrales altos en los Mundiales.

    Incluso Bielsa tenía a Ponce para darle estatura a la defensa.

    La excepción es esta selección de Sampaoli.:mad:
     
  5. toepunt

    toepunt Member

    Aug 24, 2003
    North America
    chewie4917 repped this.
  6. chewie4917

    chewie4917 Member

    Sep 10, 2011
    Good article with some good points.

    Ideally, I would want at least one tall centre back (e.g. 1.85m and above) who has quick enough movement (quick enough off the mark, with a good turn & quick response) and can pass the ball well enough from the back.

    Unfortunately for the shorter central defenders, not all of them can be as lethal in the air as Puyol (1.78m) and Ayala (1.77m) were back in their prime, and even these two were on the higher end of 1.7m.
     
  7. JAIME CHILE

    JAIME CHILE Member+

    Apr 26, 2006
    V.Alemana y Stgo
    Club:
    Cobreloa Calama
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
  8. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Súmales a Francisco "el murci" Rojas (que era titularísimo con Acosta), a ver que tan alta era nuestra defensa de entonces.
     
  9. Ohiginiano

    Ohiginiano Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    El Teniente Stadium
    Club:
    O Higgins Rancagua
    ME referia a los defensas centrales, ok?
    Murci era chico, pero VIllaroel y Castañeda eran mas altos, igual que Aros. Y ROnald Fuentes tambien era de estatura mas regular.
     
    Rickdog repped this.
  10. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
  11. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Para ellos, allá en Europa, los mundiales siempre se juegan durante "su" Verano.
     
  12. phat

    phat Viking

    Feb 13, 2006
    Montreal
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Por qué juegan Vidal en un amistoso. Estaban tan preocupado por los médicos de la Juve. Ahora han hecho una mala decisión y que se perderá el primer partido?
     
  13. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    #438 Rickdog, Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
    Porque aquí en Chile, son igual de tontos que allá en Italia.
    Solo piensan en el "hoy", y no piensan en el "mañana".
    :confused:

    En todo caso, nunca se proyectó tenerlo de vuelta para el primer partido, sino que para el segundo y/o el tercero. Ahora con esta última "tontera" corre el riesgo de no estar en ninguno.
     
  14. SIN DIOS NI LEY

    Sep 11, 2012
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Jorge Sampaoli is well-known for forcing his players, no matter how injured they are or the caliber of the match.
    Unfortunately, he was not a pro player and has some ugly attitudes towards the footballers from time to time.
     
  15. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Sampaoli no lo obligó a jugar.
    El tonto que le pidió y rogó que lo dejaran jugar un poco ante el público de Chile, fue el mismo Vidal.
    Sampaoli fue el tonto que le aceptó.
     
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  16. SIN DIOS NI LEY

    Sep 11, 2012
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Sí, seguro.
    El Pelao carga con una larga lista de lesionados y carreras terminadas. No tiene el beneficio de la duda conmigo.
     
  17. Yañez

    Yañez Member+

    Oct 11, 2005
    Santiago, Llolleo
    Club:
    Univ de Chile
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile

    Vidal is not injured, has some swelling but thats it. However, he is far from being match fit, which is why, we assume, he will miss the first game. For all we know, he could perfectly play in the first game. He was set to miss the game even before he came on, he was even set to not make it to the WC at all.

    As for SinDios, same old boring story, "I hate Sampaoli because bla bla bla"
     
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  18. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Oh yes he is injured, my friend. He still hasn't recovered from his former injury, as he is still going through it now.
    The swelling is just a sign that his recovery is not going well. Don't believe all the crap the doctor of the NT is saying about it being normal, as he is simply trying to cover up his own mistake for allowing him to play, where almost anyone with a little knowledge on the issue, knows that he was wrong by doing so. Vidal shouldn't have played against Northen Ireland. Even playing him against Spain as his first match after surgery, would've been premature, but since he played lots before it, now he might not even make it during the whole WC (including the finals if we get there). Among other possibilities, he might even need to practice a new surgery to his knee, now.

    I told you before, the same thing and you didn't want to believe it.
    This type of health issues are not something over to play with.
     
  19. Yañez

    Yañez Member+

    Oct 11, 2005
    Santiago, Llolleo
    Club:
    Univ de Chile
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Dont agree at all. Many people, who do not see the day to day of Vidals recovery, said he wasnt even going to be able to go to the WC. They said he had absolutely no chance. You were one of these people and now here we are.

    I believe the most viable person to believe, that is, the doctor who treats and works with Vidal more than anyone right now. If you believe a little swelling is an injury, then he is injured, thats it., my friend.

    And no, nobody is playing with this injury, no need to tell me that as I dont have to tell you that. Its a given.
     
  20. phat

    phat Viking

    Feb 13, 2006
    Montreal
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    From what understand he should have not played until at least June 7th. Which is still early because of the type of operation/injury he had in early May. Makes no sense to make him come back for a friendly. Especially after the drama the Chilean NT created when they sent their doctors to Italy after the injury/operation was announced.

    Sampaoli tiene la culpa por haberlo jugar... Esto es seguro.
     
    SIN DIOS NI LEY repped this.
  21. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    I never said that. What I said was that it was preferable to call some other player instead of him. As I have always said that the normal recovery for someone who has suffered what he suffered would take between 8 to 12 weeks, in the best of cases.
    Since day 1 (I was the first, to point it out here, in this "chilean" forum), I said he was "cagado"
    As a fan, I would love to see him recover and play. But if not fully recovered, I would prefer to not have him back.

    Well the doctor who performed his surgery (Dr. Ramon Cugat in Spain), recommended him to not play for at least 8 weeks and gave specific suggestions that if he wanted to play at the WC, to not play any friendly game before it.

    A swelling is a sign or symptom, of a process affecting the body or part of it. It doesn't happen over nothing.

    By playing him ahead of time, as the good old doctor of the NT, also has access to a whole bunch of medical literature that supports the idea of how long it takes for a patient to recover from this type of illness. If he decides to not take in account, what this literature suggests, then he is taking a call on his own (we doctors, call it "playing" with the patients health condition. Non-doctors, sometimes call it as negligence).
     
  22. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    #447 Rickdog, Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
    That's what Dr. Cugat suggested to Vidal, but as he can't avoid the patient from doing whatever he wants or decides to do afterwards. After all, it is Vidal's knee and it is him, who decides what to do with it.

    Btw, the chilean staff went to Italy, because back there, the "Juve" decided to pospone his surgery and even played him, when everyone knew he needed rest and/or surgery. If he would have had the surgery back in April, when it was required, nothing of what is happening now, would have happened.
     
  23. phat

    phat Viking

    Feb 13, 2006
    Montreal
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Sigo a Chile (a causa de Bielsa y los jugadores que juegan en Italia), y creo que pueden sorprender. Pero esto es un desastre para Vidal, es un jugador muy importante para el club. Mi opinión en el fútbol, es que jugar para el club es más importante y espero que esto no impide su carrera.
     
  24. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Si lo hubieran operado o tratado en el momento oportuno en Italia (antes de jugar los últimos partidos por Copas europeas para la Juve), hoy, estaría casi totalmente recuperado. Para jugar todo el mundial y despues para inmediatamente ponerse a disposición de su club. En la Juve le dieron más valor a lo que se jugaba entonces y le restaron importancia a su valor futuro. Son igualmente responsables de lo que hoy, le afecta a Vidal.

    Discrepo en cuanto a que tiene más importancia, si el club o su equipo nacional. Hoy es empleado de la Juve, mañana lo será de otro club, luego de otro, luego de otro,....... etc. En cambio, siempre será jugador chileno (no importando por que club y donde este juegue), y por ello, siempre podrá defender al equipo representativo de su país.
     
  25. phat

    phat Viking

    Feb 13, 2006
    Montreal
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #450 phat, Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
    Juve lo descansó durante los partidos que eran de menor importancia. Juve luchaban por 2 trofeos. Confía en la Juve que no se arriesgan a un jugador como Vidal si era una preocupación importante para su carrera. Es un jugador importante para el club y su proyecto.

    No es cierto que siempre puede defender a su país. Él sólo es recogida porque juega bien para su club. Raro que recogen a un jugador por su nombre. Siempre por lo que has hecho últimamente.
     

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