************ brought up some good points on another thread on Long Seasons vs Short Seasons and I figured it would make a good new thread. For me the good on Short Seasons: -Get to enjoy La Liguilla twice a year -Keeps me interested -Keeps it competitive For me the bad on Short Seasons: -No time to develop young players -Injuries will kill you -A bad start will kill you -Losing players to international duties will kill you What's your opinion?
I dont believe the myth that young players cant develop under the short season format. Its just excuses many coaches use to cover up for their lack of confidence in young Mexie talent. It is a shame that many of these coaches are Mexican. Yayo de la Torre for example wasnt giving playing time to many of the pibes that were brought up from Tapatio. Once Hans came in he made Maza Rodriguez a starter and now Maza is even in teh National Team. I bet if Yayo stayed at Chivas Maza would be rotting in the bench.. Hugo Sanchez is another Mexie that prefers foreigners despite his pro Mexican stance. He seems to debute more new foreigners each season than give playing time to a youngster. He has brought in such strikers as Victor Muller, Bola Gomez and now Marioni. And he let go of Marquez Lugo who is also in the U-23 and last week scored the winning goal for Morelia where Mohammed is coach. Going back to Chivas, Hans has been giving regular playing time to Marco Parra who is eighteen years old and his compatriot Beenhakker has placed another young player in Americas starting Eleven with Francisco Ochoa who priomises to be a good talent. The only Mexican Coach i can think of that has played many youngsters is El Piojo Herrera at Atlante and he comes from the Lavolpe school. Now we cant forget about some of the players that have developed in the Short Season like Omar Bravo, Luis Perez, and Diego Martinez to name a few. Maybe not as many as we would like but we all know why this is not happening.. Now to get back on topic i dont see the purpose of having a Long Season if the Championship will be decided in a Liguilla. Whats the point of being the best all season if you wont have anything to show for it. You still have to go to a Liguilla were the 8th best team has been given another oportunity to Win.. Only way i would go back to Long season is if the liguilla was eliminated. 1st place team is Champion and along with 2nd and 3rd place teams have a ticket to Copa Libertadores. 5th and 6th place teams earn a ticket to Copa Sudamericana and the 7th and 8th place teams get to play in the prestigious CONCACAF Champions Cup.. This should also help clear up the Calender and will help teh Mexican teams which have been affected by poor MFL planning.
I dont believe the myth that young players cant develop under the short season format. I never said that young players cant develop under the short season, but you can not deny (if you do, numbers, stats, will not be on yourside) that with a short season, clubs have to act fast to salvage a season. And usually the coach is the first to go and with new coaches, comes along new players and new tactical ideas. I know you cant deny that because you did say the following Like I said in the other thread, being dead last in week 9 of a 38 game schedule is not the same as being dead last in week 9 of an 18 game schedule. With 38 games, you have a lot more time to salvage a team Capitan Furia was let go from Queretaro after the 3rd week after acquiring 3 straight draws. Then comes in a new coach. I think it was last season (or maybe the season before) that a total of 8 coaches had been releived of thier duty by the 8th week. Its just excuses many coaches use to cover up for their lack of confidence in young Mexie talent. Not all coaches, but more so club execs. Cruz Azul went with an all Mexican (youth) team after they had released thier foreigners. They did it for the wrong reasons but it paid off. They made the playoffs. But then they go out and get more for foreigners, a new coach and now a new coach. Players do not have time to play together. Coaches do not have a lot of leniency. It is a shame that many of these coaches are Mexican. This is another issue that is meant for another thread, but Mexican coaches are not even given the same leniency and yet... have won 13 of the last 15 titles. It is no secret that they are not given the same treatment as a foreigner (which is is wrong since it our league). So they are under more pressure to win. Yayo de la Torre for example wasnt giving playing time to many of the pibes that were brought up from Tapatio. And was he really given a chance to work with te youth? Getting a new coach and going with 18 year old players like Palencia, Carmona? Once Hans came in he made Maza Rodriguez a starter and now Maza is even in teh National Team. Yeah, because Omar Rodriguez & Heriberto Morales crossed heads with Vergara, Vergara decided to let them go. Vergara even told Hans he didnt want them to play? Remember? Then he apologized and said he shouldnt have expressed his feeling like that and apologized to them, but the grudge still continued? And now, Omar and Heriberto are playing with Chiapas with the best team in the MFL. SO dont be opening your legs so fast for Hans for thinking he made Maza. I bet if Yayo stayed at Chivas Maza would be rotting in the bench.. I bet if yayo or even Guzman would have been given the same type of treatment Hans got, they would be around the same place. Hugo Sanchez is another Mexie that prefers foreigners despite his pro Mexican stance. He seems to debute more new foreigners each season than give playing time to a youngster. He has brought in such strikers as Victor Muller, Bola Gomez and now Marioni. And he let go of Marquez Lugo who is also in the U-23 and last week scored the winning goal for Morelia where Mohammed is coach. He is not anti-foreigner. Parejita, Fonseca, Lozano, etc... HE has had the youngest team n the MFL for 2-3 consecutive seasons. Trujillo, Marquez left for contract reasons. Going back to Chivas, Hans has been giving regular playing time to Marco Parra who is eighteen years old and his compatriot Beenhakker has placed another young player in Americas starting Eleven with Francisco Ochoa who priomises to be a good talent. Jesus VS... stop opening you legs to them so fast Yeahh beenhaker really works with the youth.. Torres Torres Efren Santiago... i can go on. He debuted Ochoa because Rios went under the knife. http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/pls/impreso/noticia.html?id_nota=210638&tabla=notas If you dont feel like reading that link, it came out today and basically it saying that Rios is in next game, Ochoa is out. The only Mexican Coach i can think of that has played many youngsters is El Piojo Herrera at Atlante and he comes from the Lavolpe school. the school of Lavolpe and his disciple? 23 years and one title... the school of Lapuente and his disciples? 25 years and 11 titles... And yet, the lavolpistas get preference because they talk a good game and keep saying they are offensive. Now, i dont like Herrera, but he does not debut a lot of players.. i dont blame him for that since Atlante is nomadic Now to get back on topic i dont see the purpose of having a Long Season if the Championship will be decided in a Liguilla. Because we are not as fortunate as the UEFA. We dont have Champions League, UEFA Cup, Interto Cup, League title, FA Cup.. Our Champions league consist of Saprissa, Communicaciones, FAS, Harnet Gardens, Galaxy.. might as well play a champions league with ourselves. Whats the point of being the best all season if you wont have anything to show for it. look above You still have to go to a Liguilla were the 8th best team has been given another oportunity to Win.. Well, one can be cup champ and the other league champ... but.. we dont have the incentives like UEFA. Only way i would go back to Long season is if the liguilla was eliminated. 1st place team is Champion and along with 2nd and 3rd place teams have a ticket to Copa Libertadores. 5th and 6th place teams earn a ticket to Copa Sudamericana and the 7th and 8th place teams get to play in the prestigious CONCACAF Champions Cup.. the travel is not feasible. You say it like Santiago is 2 hours away.
I don´t think its the season. I like the short season as it makes it has 2 finals. And 2 Champions. I think the problem of pressure its the media and fans. When you have the sports media saying how its a huge failure if America, Chivas, Cruz Azul, UNAM, Santos or Toluca don´t win the championship or get to the liguilla, then you have will always end with a team full of failures. I can´t believe how f#cking idiotic they are at times. While everyone in the world would like a league like Mexico, where everybody has a chance to win the title, they actually look at it like its a bad thing. What the hell do they want? A Scottish or Paraguayan league where its either one champ or the other ? Cruz Azul is a fine example. They had a couple of good mexican strikers and then everyone went on about how bad a year it was, eventhough they almost eliminate Tigres. Then they bring in Luciano Figeroa. Now everyone is piling on him but when he was brought, it looked like Andre Marin was jerking off to him every night. I remember reading letters from fans that were saying how they already had Cacho and why do they have to bring Figeroa and thinking that it was a dream since everyone looked to be behind it. That is always the case. In Televisa you have Alarcon and other ranting about how all those foreigners are leading the list, then they rant on some team for not winning a championship right now. What do you want? Where are the people who rant about how the stupid Televisa vs TV Azteca conflict, hurt soccer and society in general? Its like the stupid espectaculos show where they rant about everything the star do when they are just the worst kind of reporters, living like leeches from them and doing nothing of value. I think that short or long season, there needs to be a better running of the teams. A lot of foreigners, suck and are just taking spots away from Mexicans ( Tabares, Federico Dominguez, Palacios, etc).And it would be the same if it were a long season. If they had better planning, they will know that they have more opportunities to become champions with the short season.
Re: Re: RDL is my dad. That was the best [insert 'funniest'] thing I've read in a while. 'Columbus Crew is world class' because they beat up on the Barca B Reserve 4-0.
I prefer the short seasons. Coaches complain about not having enough time during the short season to try young players, etc. But really, how much of that went on during the long seasons ? For the most part, I recall youngsters being brought in sporadically, or only late in the season (weeks 34 - 38) for a few minutes. Was this enough to try out youngsters ? Foreign players always had preference. Anyway, my biggest complaint about the long season was that basically, coaches played very conservatively. They knew the season was long and so they played not to lose. If they lost 5 or 6 games, their cliched response was always 'well, it's a long season, no need to worry'. Made for some very dull games during the winters. Things only picked up as the liguilla approached. The games are much more intense now, week-in and week-out.
Why should they give up the 2 championships and the 2 liguillas so that directivos can f#ck it up. They are still going to bring foreingners and the players won´t have a chance. The problem is not the long or short season but the increase of money in the MFL. Now all South American players want to go to Europe or Mexico. It has become a purchasing league. And its with every single team that is bringing the dough and buying all these south americans. Now you have the top talent going to Mexico, so much that the teams have to take break during the WC qualifiers in SA. I don´t know how it hurts the calendar when the Libertadores stared with the short seasons. Argentina has short seasons. And they have more fan pressure since their fans are rabid. The press is always hounding. Yet they produce young players by the boatload. The problems is that this league is buying the players and Argentina is selling and they go the easy route in just ponyng up the dough and buying the players that fill those holes. The Short season is not he problem and it just makes the league more interesting.
Why should they give up the 2 championships and the 2 liguillas so that directivos can f#ck it up. Having foreigners is not the problem. We have always had foreigners. They are still going to bring foreingners and the players won´t have a chance. The problem is not the long or short season but the increase of money in the MFL. Yeah, money is a problem as well. Two liguillas generate more money and the more successful you are the more money you get every year and many owners look for a quick fixer upper to get quick cash. But without money, that too would also cuase a problem. Now all South American players want to go to Europe or Mexico. It has become a purchasing league. And its with every single team that is bringing the dough and buying all these south americans. Now you have the top talent going to Mexico, so much that the teams have to take break during the WC qualifiers in SA. I don´t know how it hurts the calendar when the Libertadores stared with the short seasons. I dont think we criticize ourselves for making money. Im glad our league can make money. every league in the americas would kill to make what we make. I gaurantee you that if a southie or central american player had the chance to earn what he was earning in Mexico back home.. he would choose to play back home... Thats not because they are more ambiotious.. thats just because they need to eat.. Argentina has short seasons. And they have more fan pressure since their fans are rabid. The press is always hounding. Yet they produce young players by the boatload. And Nestle introduced powdered milk in Africa but their marketing entry plan failed because they forgot to overlook the infrastructure and clean water was not readily available. Car manufacturers thought twice about sending cars like Moco, Nova to Mexico becuase of the name.. The moral of the story is... what works in one place may not work in another... doesnt mean that its wrong, just means different circumstances.. Im tired of hearing what they do here and there. Its a moot point. I think you have been paying too much attention to the media and Lavolpe.. Whats next? have a Monterrey national team training under a Lavolpe disciple? Have a Guadalajara national team under a lavolpe disciple? DOnt you remember when he proposed that idea? Because thats what they did in Argentina? they had a Buenos Aires nat team and a province nat team.
They used to have Jalisco teams playing so Lavolpe is not being original. The point of Argentina I think is valid. What will a freaking long season do? Will they eliminate foreign players? Youngster will be in every game? You say Mexico always had foreigners but its not the same thing, They aren´t the same foreigners. Now all of South America is interested in Mexico while before they didn´t pay attention to Mexico. Not only are they better foreigners now but before the good ones used to be ignored ( I was even surprised that a chilean once told me that everyone in Chile was surprised when Reinoso was capped to the world cup becuase they didn´t know him in Chile or that he was a star in the world cup). Now we even have guys starring for Argentina. Thus now the owners have the capability to fix all those holes with a better quality. Chiapas can go get a Cabañas, Puebla a Quinteros, Monterrey a Guille Franco, etc. I´m not blaming them for making money but for using it on a short term and not for the long term and promoting the youth teams. A long season won´t change squat if they don´t realize what they are doing wrong. I don´t get how a long tourney without a limit on foreingners will help anything. The pressure will still be there as it will only be 1 chance to win a title per year. I like 2 seasons just fine and it´s not the problem.
The solution is simple....... limit to three. That way the clubs can make the best investments and get the best players available.
How many is that now? How many coaches have been given the boot this season? let me see.. Alfredo Tena (MEX) Querétaro Osvaldo Batocletti (ARG) 3 Rubén Omar Romano (ARG) Monarcas Antonio Mohamed (ARG/MEX) 6 Enrique Meza (MEX) Cruz Azul Luis Fenando Tena (MEX) 9 Daniel Guzmán (MEX) Veracruz Tomás Boy Espinoza (MEX) 10 Wilson Graniolatti (URU) San Luis Pilar Reyes (interino-MEX) 11 Osvaldo Batocletti (ARG) Querétaro Carlos de los Cobos (MEX) 11 Pilar Reyes (interino-MEX) San Luis Carlos Reinoso (CHI) 11 Well thats not too bad right. At least the ratio is not 1 a week like it was 2-3 seasons ago. Next in line - Ignacio Palou (Puebla) Hugo de Leon (Monterrey) Boy (Veracruz) De Los Cobos (San Luis) Eduardo Acevedo (Tecos) Miguel Herrera (Atlante) Truly a Lavolpista! Is losing but keeps telling his people he plays offensive.. So that makes it a lot better Says they are in a rut, but still plays very offensive.. great Han HassleSomethinghaf Not a bad coach in Chivas, but will leave to be a GM type . Says that the base of work is there, but if I know coaching and egos, no one likes to be told how they will play.. so a new "process" will begin when Chivas' best coach in the world shows up next season
Why are you counting Pilar Reyes if Graneolatti left and Reinoso is taking the job? And if Atlante is stupid enough to fire Herrerra, when Atlante has been playing very good the last season and mostly the mistakes is because the hyped up Chamagol has sucked and they moved and can´t draw fans, they the directivos are the morons and it won´t change.
Why are you counting Pilar Reyes if Graneolatti left and Reinoso is taking the job? Well, I' d like to think that clubs already have a plan B if Plan A does not work, but I am being to much of an optomist when I say that And if Atlante is stupid enough to fire Herrerra, when Atlante has been playing very good the last season and mostly the mistakes is because the hyped up Chamagol has sucked and they moved and can´t draw fans, they the directivos are the morons and it won´t change. if he is playing a style for one or 2 guys and both those 2 guys are hurt or in a slump.. what does that say about his coaching abilities? I dont think Alejandro will buy that "I am an offensive coach" crap for much longer
He got them to the semifinals just last season! And if they hadn´t been hit with injuries or Chamagol had tanked chance after chance, they would be better. This is the same mentality that I´ve been criticizing and that wouldn´t change even if it were a long season.
updated version let me see.. Alfredo Tena (MEX) Querétaro Osvaldo Batocletti (ARG) 3 Rubén Omar Romano (ARG) Monarcas Antonio Mohamed (ARG/MEX) 6 Enrique Meza (MEX) Cruz Azul Luis Fenando Tena (MEX) 9 Daniel Guzmán (MEX) Veracruz Tomás Boy Espinoza (MEX) 10 Wilson Graniolatti (URU) San Luis Pilar Reyes (interino-MEX) 11 Osvaldo Batocletti (ARG) Querétaro Carlos de los Cobos (MEX) 11 Pilar Reyes (interino-MEX) San Luis Carlos Reinoso (CHI) 11 Eduardo Acevedo (URU) Tecos Julio Cesar Uribe (PER) 14 Next in line - we shall see... changing coaches after 14 weeks is beyond me... the club still has to honor the contract (for the most part unless thier is a performance cluase which there probably wasnt one since he has been there a while) and then pay this new coach...and lets not lie to ourselves. HE is not a new coach... this is his 4th time coaching Tecos Tecos is like Cruz Azul.. they showed some stats and Cruz Azul has gone down the past couple years. And when they clean house, they come back with coaches that are or have been with the club before....
no seriously that last two place teams of the mfl should be sent to the concacaf champions cup.Aleast they'll send their A team so the centroamerican teams don't think that their the best in the concacaf region