Location for Soccer only stadium

Actually the best possible situation would be a new soccer specific stadium near RFK- most proposals have focused on building it in the parking lot.

So that way, no one can complain about the "new" location making it inconvenient for them to attend games anymore.

 

Navy Yard. The area is targeted for development, and a SSS would be the perfect cornerstone.

 

In the past when I've asked for more specifics on the 'part' of the Navy Yard that is 'targeted' for development, I've not received good info. Claymore, could you expand on this Navy Yard idea:

Is this something that has been discussed by DC United, the District, AEG, or a media outlet as a possible site for a soccer stadium?

Is there a particular part of the Navy Yard that is up for development that is not controlled by the Navy?

Will the Navy and its contractors, who have developed all the available land that I can tell, want to continue their 8,000 person relocation and will this effect a new Stadium?

A few cross streets would be helpful. I frequent the area for drug buying and I would like to check out the new stadium site. (just kidding...I actually get my drugs around the corner from my house on Maryland Ave, NE.)

Cheers,
Tim

 

We could then coax Maradonna out of retirement

 

And here I thought you went to Nation like everyone else...

As for the SSS, I doubt if the Naval Yards idea is more than a Bigsoccer.com rumor that has gained legs. I've never heard anyone at DC United talk about any other site than RFK's parking lot. I believe that unless AEG wants to go it alone, the Sports Commission will dictate RFK as the site of any new stadium construction. Makes sense to me considering the infrastructure is already in place with highway and street access and a metro stop.

 

What do you think the capacity of stadium would be seeing that DC averages around 18000 a game?

 

Portland. Better soccer fans here. Everyone knows that.

LMFAO!!!

 

I don't have any specifics with regard to the actual Navy Yard site (cross streets, etc.), but Mayor Bow Tie held a press conference a few months ago detailing a plan to encourage development in the South Capital Street/Navy Yards area, which would include tax incentives and the like.

 

I used to drive by this area several times a week (for work, not drug buying...leave that up to Barry). The South Capital Street portion of Navy Yard area is not, in my opinion, even remotely suited for a soccer stadium without serious housing and building demolition. That section of the city has been down that road before. Although none of the structures are very aesthetically pleasing, and a significant number are vacant, I doubt that they all are set for immediate demolition.

I will look into the City's (and Mayor's) recent press releases for any info on what particular site we are discussing here. In the meantime, I encourage anyone to take a look at the widely available aerial photos to help focus in on if there is available land. I personally am unable to visualize any suitably sized vacant or brownfield-type land that sits on that corner of the Navy Yard. By the way, the nearest part of the Navy Yard to South Capitol is two blocks away, and that is already occupied and/or redeveloped by the Navy.

Cheers,
Tim

 

Semmingly a stadium that seats around 24-25k would seem ideal..

Keeping the maximum capacity relatively low drives up ticket demand.. The atmosphere will also be much better, though I do find it hard to believe that the atmosphere could be better than RFK..

If I had my way, I certainly wouldn't build a SSS like Crew Stadium.. While it is unique in American soccer circles, it is completely open air and the atmosphere is pretty null and void, though I will concede that the place was jumping during the Mexico WC qualifier.. Building an overhanging roof makes all the difference in the world.. Why do you think RFK rocks so loudly with only 15k in the stadium?

I think it's pretty safe to say that MLS will probably never even average 20k until SSS are built for nearly every team...

 

Downtown Silver Spring...Metro and beltway accessible, land for a stadium, lots of parking...a lot closer to me.

 

IMBY - the opposite of NIMBY

 

What a day to be cultured. A bit of soccer and bit of the "Arts" the would be sweet. Maybe they could join up and have a Halftime show.

 

I figure since the metro will come out to NoVa in a few years. Dulles Airport is there. Most of them live there. The office is there. Just Make it in Fairfax or in Loudoun County. And I hope the stadium will not look like the Crew High school stadium. I think we should make a 35,000-40,000 person stadium for WCC and for MLS finals and Friendlys.

 

I've got to disagree with the very original post that started this thread. Most DC teams relocate to NoVa and not Maryland? Give me a break. FedEx field? And didn't the Caps and Bullets play at MCI for a decade or two? Other than the NoVa Royals, what pro team is located in Northern Virginia.

What's true about this area is that NoVa fans grouse about going across the river and complain that too much stuff for the area is located in Md. And Md fans grouse the same way. I'm active in a couple of professional groups that lay claim to the DC Metro area. Doesn't matter where we hold events, people from the other side of the river complain. And, there perception is that the other side of the river always gets more events from their group or team than they do (regardless of reality). I'm not beating up on Md folks--NoVa is the same.

I think the reality is this:
1. The area is extremely over-developed and there aren't a lot of good options for stadium space. So space for a stadium is at a premium. I've love a stadium in Fairfax County b/c I live there. But you know what--if DCU can grab a site near RFK or somewhere in the City or Mont. Co. or PG County or Loudon County, I'll go. There just aren't a lot of good options. And what there is, DCU has to compete against people who want to build office buildings. Face it, in a generally depressed office space market in the US, DC office space still brings in good money and building is still continuing.

2. States are rolling in red-ink and that won't change soon. That means that no-one (not in DC, not in the 'burbs) can afford to support much in terms of a stadium (even a modest SSS)..

3. In terms of support for development projects like this, PG County, than Loudon, than Fairfax, than DC and than maybe Mont. Co would be the order of the localities most likely to push hard for this (b/c they have space and see some economic value in it).

4. I think the baseball deal really hurt the drive for a SSS near RFK. No contraction or move in 2003. That means Bobby Goldwater and the Stadium Authority won't commit on a lease with RFK for DCU that might complicate life with baseball (thus, no deal beyond 2003) and won't break ground on a SSS until baseball is resolved. B/c there is talk of baseball moving into RFK but "maybe" building a better ballpark next to RFK (so they play there until the new park is built). Also, I trust Williams but with a DC Govt in major financial trouble, his priorities have to be elsewhere.

I think if a deal is going to happen, it won't involve a governor and it won't involve the Stadium Authority. I like a local county exec. will step into the picture and move mountains to get the stadium and add stature to their County or locality. And I think DCU going with the proposal in Western Fairfax is just a case of they've temporarily given up on a SSS for now (recognizing that the SA is waiting for baseball to be resolved before they'll talk seriously) and the Lorton proposal (a grand idea) isn't going to happen. So they have gone with a smaller option to at least have good fields and a practice home.

 

I'm an advocate for somewhere that is convenient. I think it will bring in far more fairweather fans. RFK is centrally located and has it's own Metro stop on two lines, and is very close to the interchange with the other 3. I would love for a DC United owner to own RFK, but that's not very likely.

RFK is a great place to watch a game, and no sport will want to play there in that stadium for an ongoing basis ever again ... except for non-major sports like soccer. Of the non-major sports soccer already has the largest appeal by far. I don't see professional laccrosse (Baltimore apparently had a team in the championship) or any other non-major sport wanting RFK as their permanent venue.

Baseball would either demolish and build a multi-hundred-million-dollar stadium on that location (unlikely if the environmental stuff the Redskins claim is true), or use RFK as a temporary home until a stadium is built in VA or MD.

So, if an SSS were built in the parking lot, then the value of RFK would be painfully low. Concerts are great, but not very frequent. RFK is a venue without a use. I simply cannot see the stadium authority putting forward an honest effort to build an SSS in DC unless there is a viable alternative in either VA or MD.

Enforcer linked to an article discussing Arlington, VA county's park development for a part of the Potomac Yards area. Apparently they're going to put $1M into figuring out what to do, and eventually $15M to do it. I can't help but wonder if there could be an opportunity to either build an SSS there or use it as leverage to get a favorable deal at the RFK site. Here's the article:

http://www.jrnl.com/cfdocs/new/ffx/mainstory.cfm?snumber=05&paper=ffx&section=fp

It's in this thread:

https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=14242

-Tron

 

I agree that Potomac Yards is a natural place. Just across the river from DC, near Metro. It's probably about as close as you're going to get to DC without major dislocation.

I also agree that the Stadium Authority sees little value in a SSS next to RFK. I think the SSS next to RFK happens in only ONE scenario--and that is if DCU has an option to go elsewhere (and it is either--build the SSS and keep them in RFK for 2 years while it's built and then have them as a tenant--or lose them forever). Well, I don't see a good chance of DCU moving from the area OR another venue option emerging in the near future.

So, the Stadium Authority will continue to drag their feet. And they will drag their feet until this baseball thing is resolved.

 

I hope DC United gets serious about Potomac Yards before all the available land is taken up.

Before a lot of the land was developed into a strip mall, there was talk of building a stadium there.

One of the major drawbacks IIRC was that it in close proximity to National Airport and they were afraid of the airplanes landing safely. I don't think they did manage to overcome this hurdle.

Although I suppose that now with all the buildings going up, most of which are about as high as a SSS (assuming the height would be comparable to that of Crew Stadium), this would not longer be a factor. (Most of the buildings in Crystal City are about 12 stories high and they are adjacent National Airport)

 

Didn't some one tell us a few weeks ago that they talked to Mr. Goldwater and he claimed that the ball was in AEG's court with respect to a SSS at RFK? That the DCSEC had put forth what they thought was a good proposal and they were waiting for AEG to make a decision.

In a location sense the RFK site would be ideal. But I'm not convinced that the terms would necessarily be all that favorable. And who knows for sure what the cost of cleaning up the site for building would be.

As for Potomac Yards, the neighbors squashed Jack Kent Cooke's plans to build his gridiron stadium there with complaints about traffic. Now that the big box stores have gone in, traffic on rt 1 is horrendous at times. There is also no subway stop there at present.

There was some talk of the tract just north of Crystal City for a baseball stadium once upon a time when the NoVA ownership group was looking for a site. The county was pretty cool to that idea as I recall. Plans now apparently will call for a park of some sort, and those plans are still being formulated. I think we'll probably end up with a couple of soccer fields there since they are so scarce in the county. But I wouldn't expect to see a SSS built on that location.

There was also some talk of building a baseball stadium somewhere in Pentagon City, but I could never figure out where they thought there was land for that. That would also likely have to deal with a great deal of neighborhood opposition. I suppose that a SSS which would host many fewer events during the course of the year than a baseball stadium might stand a better shot.

Because there isn't much open space to choose from, any stadium is going to have problems finding a home. The most likely location for a baseball stadium that I have heard talked about is in the Mt Vernon Sq area, but frankly I have never been able to figure that one out either, especially with the convention center going in there. When they were selecting a site for the convention center an area by Union Station was touted as the better choice. So maybe there is room over there for a stadium. I believe this is one of the biggest hurdles that a baseball team would face in coming here. There's no place to play. And I still think that if they have to put the stadium in Loudon County or Western Fairfax that the team would fail miserbably because no one would want to go there on any sort of regular basis. A stadium in the city is the only viable option if a site is found. Maybe NE by NY Ave? They're putting in a metro station there.

 

Originally JKC and Doug Wilder (former Va Gov.) agreed on a stadium near there. But Alexandria shot it down (some of the same resistance about a new bridge to replace the Wilson bridge). Too many police needs for special events, not enough transportation, no community involvement. Ultimately, the combination of lots of public opposition plus bad site tests (hazardous waste) killed the effort and Wilder dropped out and JKC looked elsewhere.

Now, the development has happened anyway (geez-they're building townhouses across from the Alexandria jail--where Massoui, Hansen, and Ames are and right next to the beltway). Decent space is being gobbled up.

What truly pisses me off about the baseball deal and DC is not that DCU might lose RFK. We can adjust to that. But instead, United is in limbo. The best (and cheapest) option is a stadium on RFK grounds (central location, SA would help fund or build it outright, parking is there, metro is there, major roads are there). But SA won't commit until they find out what is happening with the Expos. And even if the Expos come here, they may want to build a baseball specific stadium on RFK grounds (though NoVa may be the first option--it's by no means definite). Consequently, United is being held hostage by baseball. Don't want to start on a SSS stadium on our own b/c RFK site would be best (cheaper and location and fan draw). But we can't approval on that until the SA resolves it's little dance with baseball. And that isn't happening for sometime soon. And while this all goes on, the limited space that meets stadium requirements is being gobbled up.

 

I live next door to the Fairfax County Executive ... maybe I should bring him over a plate of cookies or something

Wait a minute though, he just raised my property taxes 30% ...

 

Yep, that was me.

That's what Mr. Goldwater told me. I have no reason to think he wouldn't be telling me the truth.

AEG are the ones who must come up with the design and financing for the stadium, and the DCSEC will give them the land to build it on (Lot 8) for a share of the revenues from it.

I haven't talked to anyone from AEG or DC United, so I don't know their side of the story, but whenever someone from DCU (Zack, Kasper, Payne, whoever) says something about a SSS all the talk is of Lot 8, there is never any mention of areas outside of that be it NoVa or PG County.

I have to think that anywhere outside of Lot 8, the property costs are going to be way to high for AEG to even think about. Its expensive enough to buy .1 acre to put a townhouse on up here. Without some sort of public-private partnership to defray land costs, I just don't see it happening.

And like I said before, RFK more or less is a SSS now, and if, big if, DCU is making money like I was told, then there really isn't a lot of momentum from AEG to pour $30-50 million into a stadium here.
Look at the AEG-owned clubs, I would argue that Metros and SJ would be a lot higher on their priority list for stadiums than DC.

For the health of MLS and AEG, I hate to say it, but the Metros need a new stadium a lot worse than we do.
No, RFK isn't perfect, but things could be a hell of a lot worse. We don't have helmetball lines to contend with, we get priority scheduling dates, we get a lot of quality doubleheaders because of the size of the stadium. Its very accessable to Metro and the Interstate... and the stands bounce!

Talk of a new stadium is great, but lets face it, we've got a pretty good situation already in RFK. Sure DCU could be getting a better cut of parking and concessions, but we don't have nearly the tons of other problems that other teams do.

Now, if/when baseball comes to DC, its a whole different ball game. And I'm sure AEG/DCU has contengency plans for if/when that happens, but until then, we're ok.

So, I propose we let AEG start turning a profit in MLS, get some new homes for the teams that really need it before we start clammoring for a new stadium.

 

I see a lot of good analysis and ideas in this thread, but I feel that nobody quite hits the nails on the heads like chayes just did. I think that the last post by chayes should be required reading for every discussion of soccer stadiums on this here forum. Maybe we could just cut and paste this post at the top of each stadium discussion and go from there.

Tim