Lloyd says this past World Cup was worst time of her life

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by McSkillz, Oct 16, 2019.

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Should Carli Lloyd have gotten more minutes during the WWC?

Poll closed Oct 23, 2019.
  1. No, she needed to embrace the bench/super sub role

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  2. Yes, she was good enough to be a starter

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  3. Both

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  4. Neither, she needs to retire now

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. McSkillz

    McSkillz Member+

    ANGEL CITY FC, UCLA BRUINS
    United States
    Nov 22, 2014
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-...shed-world-cup-role-was-worst-time-of-my-life


    I’m not surprised by this statement, when I saw Carli Lloyd get on the field at the 80th minute during the 2019 WWC Final, she wasn’t smiling like Abby Wambach did when she got a legendary entrance in the 2015 WWC Final... I knew right then that Lloyd hadn’t embraced the bench role, no legend wants to come off the bench the last 10 minutes to waste time and get an ovation because you’re old and this is your last World Cup.
     
  2. zdravstvuyte

    zdravstvuyte Member

    Aston Villa
    United States
    Jul 26, 2018
    Back on tour !!!
    This Foudy podcast is very good.
    The players totally open up to her.

    Carli really let rip.... but she seems a better person for coming through it all.
     
  3. jmplautz

    jmplautz Member

    Jul 28, 2007
    Madison
    Sounds very entitled. Making all this public so soon causes a problem for the next coach. The next coach should not need the Carli Lloyd stamp of approval.

    Would be curious to know what kind of conversations occured between her and Ellis had before the WC. Maybe they weren't on the same page with what her role was going to be.
     
  4. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This has been my thought, too. It seems like a threat, unintended or not -- "Tell me you'll put me in a starting role or I don't what to be on the team." I don't think you can have a player with that position on the team.

    I do suspect, however, that Carli was good in the locker room during the World Cup. No doubt biting her tongue, but making a good show of it.
     
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  5. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    She has always seemed to have issues with Alex Morgan that go beyond the field. Seems like she thinks she should have been starting in place of her. To be fair, Carli has been very good this year and I can't really say the same for Morgan. I don't think her attitude is unusual for a high level competitive athlete, they always want to be on the field. Probably rubs some the wrong way that she is not very gracious about her role on the team though.
     
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  6. zdravstvuyte

    zdravstvuyte Member

    Aston Villa
    United States
    Jul 26, 2018
    Back on tour !!!
    #6 zdravstvuyte, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  7. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Should the new coach give Carli the Greg Ryan/Brandi Chastain treatment?
     
  8. soccersubjectively

    soccersubjectively BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 17, 2012
    Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who would have Carli pulled off? I guess Heath and slide Mogan out wide?
     
  9. JimWharton

    JimWharton Member+

    Feb 25, 2017
    I’m not sure we would have lost anything with Carli on for Morgan. I thought Alex’s role in our success was overstated.
     
  10. jackiesdad

    jackiesdad Member

    Apr 13, 2008
    Agreed. During some of the big games, Morgan was virtually invisible. I really don't think she did anything to get herself penciled in as an automatic starter, which she was.
     
  11. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    I do not really disagree at all but, sometimes, a player can be extremely valuable by simply forcing a couple of other players to mark her/him. Whenever Morgan was on the field it seemed to me that there were fewer defenders to handle the rest of the team. That could mean that her value was to unbalance the other team.

    I cannot say this is/is not the case but it is something that should be considered whenever evaluating a player's value.
     
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  12. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    1. Morgan's "invisibility" went away as soon as you started watching with the question "why aren't the best teams in the world able to get the ball across midfield even a third of the time when they gain possession?" at the front of your mind. It was pretty obvious then that Ellis' general plan was along the lines of "the offense starts with Tobin, the defense starts with Alex," and it couldn't have worked much better.

    2. You are a couple of years into a marriage to your long time sweetheart, you are personally worth half a million dollars, nauseatingly healthy, have a clearly defined role on a team in the process of winning its second consecutive world championship, and are performing that role so well as to be the talk of the tournament-- and it is the worst time of your life?

    That's, like, an insult to everybody who went through junior high school, isn't it? Something's really wrong there, or maybe just possibly it is an exaggeration?
     
  13. jackdoggy

    jackdoggy Member+

    May 16, 2014
    Big D
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Drive, Dedication, Competitor
    90.jpeg
    Minute 22ish of the Podcast - Phase 4 was to become the Greatest Ever.

    Reminds me of the Thread months ago of who’s your USWNT Top 3 - Top 4 of all time. With the embarrassment of riches we’ve had it is nearly impossible to crack those lists. And therein lies the mindset and goal of Carli Lloyd. The reality is that Phase 4 could not be achieved when sitting on the bench. Kudos to her and former HCJE for not letting this become a locker room cancer.


    P.S. – I’ll take 3 Carli Lloyd’s no matter what age on my Team any day.

    Needless to say, all of JF’s podwhatevers are required listening…….there will be a test.
     
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  14. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Well, she's not all that short of it is she? A team with 3 Carlis is gonna beat a team with the greatest ever most times, even on the road. But still, there are several I'd probably take ahead of her...
     
  15. fire123

    fire123 Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    3 Carlis Lloyds? It's bad enough with 1. With 3, there aren't enough balls to go around. The 1st Carli will take all the shots and the other two will chew her out. Not to mention , with no defense, we simply won't win ball to take shot anyhow.
     
  16. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Plano, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    If today, we were in a must win game (and assuming Morgan is 100%), not a doubt in my mind I would start Carli.

    Morgan has always been a very good player, but VERY MUCH overhyped for her looks, her comments, her magazine covers, etc.

    When I think of the great US players, they have all been game changers. While I agree, Morgan can stretch defenses, does a good job and holding up the ball, she’s simply not ever been a clutch game changer. Carli has always had this edge, which all the great players have. If I’m going to battle, I’d want her every.single.time. because she’s all about WINNING and doesn’t give a rip about the other stuff. You could tell the entire WC, this is how she felt and props to her for keeping her head down and not making it an issue.
     
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  17. Smallchief

    Smallchief Member+

    Oct 27, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I don't think there can be any doubt that Lloyd has been better in 2019 than Morgan. Lloyd, 839 minutes played, 13 goals and 3 assists. Morgan, 1231 minutes played, 9 goals and 3 assists,
     
    xtomx repped this.
  18. fire123

    fire123 Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    Of course there are doubts.
    Lloyd scored against all minnows.
    At least Morgan scored against Australia, England, Japan.
     
  19. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    For a team like the USWNT total goals scored in no way shows value. In fact goals scored does not really show value. What shows value is team goals scored against good teams in meaningful games while a given player is on the field.

    Even that stat is screwed up by other player selections and other coach's choices.

    That is, the only time we, as fans, can judge a players value to the team is, well really never.

    The only thing that is quite clear is that with neither Morgan or Lloyd does the overall level of team play seem to drop in any situation unless there are other choices that impact play. At least that appears so to me.

    I am quite confident with either Lloyd or Morgan playing and I do not think "which" matters much.

    I believe, baring injury before the Olympics, our defense is strong and fit enough to allow both Morgan and Lloyd to be carried to the tournament even with the slightly reduced roster.

    My real concerns are two things:
    1. Goalkeeping - It was good enough at the WWC but it was not and has not been really good and was only tested a very few times. One PK save on a poorly taken PK does not equal quality keeper play.
    2. Coaching - Probably should be concern #1. The longer it goes without a clear choice and time for the new coach to make his (probably) or her choices the less time there is for the team to regain its strength of character.

    Neither Morgan or Lloyd has any real impact on those concerns.
     
  20. Smallchief

    Smallchief Member+

    Oct 27, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    But five of Morgan's nine goals were against the smallest minnow of them all: Thailand.
     
  21. fire123

    fire123 Member

    Jul 31, 2009
    So you agreed that there are doubts?!;)
     
  22. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Plano, TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Well this is a moot point...Alex is pregnant. Lol
     
  23. thegamesthatrate

    Jan 9, 2007
    I've never been a big Lloyd fan. That being said, she has scored 8 goals in quarterfinal or later games of WWC and Olympic tournaments. Only Akers among Americans has more. That says something for clutch play.

    I would not necessarily rank her as among the absolute top level of American or international women's greats. But if the criteria is who do you pick for a big game, she is hard to overlook.

    The best baseball analogy might be to Bob Gibson. He was a terrific regular season pitcher but probably would not make a top five of all time.

    But if the criteria is World Series performance, he is the greatest. Nine games started, 81 innings pitched, 8 complete games, 7-2 record, most strikeouts by a pitcher in a World Series game, twice won the seventh game on two days' rest, once hitting a homer as a pitcher as well.

    In one big game, Lloyd is a Bob Gibson-type choice to start at striker (assuming Akers is healthy and plays central midfield).
     
  24. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm pretty sure Wambach has scored more than 8 in the knockout rounds as well.

    Going back to count...she scored 11 if you count 3rd place games, 9 if you don't. I would guess Wambach did it in less minutes as well, considering she missed 2008, but I'm not doing those calculations. Akers definitely did it in less minutes, but she got 5 all in a QF against a weak opponent so there's that.
     
  25. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    It's understandable, but she shouldn't start since she's too old.
     

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