Liverpool vs Arsenal (EFL Cup Semi) 13 Jan 2022

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by NorthBank, Jan 13, 2022.

  1. svardineni

    svardineni New Member

    Jun 19, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I can't believe that there are actually Xhaka apologists! Wow just wow.
     
    DaPrince84 repped this.
  2. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yes. With me everyone will be able to tell the difference, but, hey, like I said, half the wages
     
    maskito repped this.
  3. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I see both sides of the Xhaka argument, but I think the discussion calls for a bit of nuance here:

    1. Xhaka does bring a fair bit to the table - he's a ball progression machine, and there's been an enormous drop off in attack whenever he doesn't play. Arsenal started playing a lot better after he returned to the team. He's also mostly good positionally in defense and good at recovering possession. He's the best CM we have, including Partey. There's a reason that, if fit and available, he plays.

    2. We've all seen his flaws, and they tend to be magnified because of the situations he finds himself in. Bad things happen when Xhaka is the last man or is defending 1v1 in the box. He's really, really slow, and that causes more than a few problems. And his split second decisionmaking in defense isn't always the best, and he's a bit of a hothead. There are flaws here.

    3. I think Arsenal should upgrade (and, frankly, the way someone like Guendouzi is lighting it up at Marseille would make him the logical successor if he wasn't such a twit). But until Arsenal actually upgrade (and Xhaka's skillset isn't all that easy to replace), Xhaka should be the third name on teamsheet behind Saka and Ramsdale.

    4. Xhaka's been left defending 1v1 enough times that this is a tactical problem - the team needs to be setup so that there's cover for Xhaka in the box. Xhaka should be defending Bernardo Silva 1v1 in the box - it's suicide.
     
    daedalus, DutchCane and Tonerl repped this.
  4. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not so sure. If you watch the replay, Gabriel is pushing up tracking Firmino and does force him backwards. So the question is: was he free lancing or did he have instructions to shadow Firmino. I'd doubt he was instructed to follow him that far, but obviously I don't know for sure.

    https://arsenalist.com/f/granit-xhaka-red-card-2022-01-13.html
     
  5. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    #105 casoccerdad47, Jan 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
    When a player is trying to volley, in this case back over his head, for the last one or two seconds their focus has to be exclusively on the ball, so during that time Xhaka wouldn’t know exactly where Jota was. If he looks for Jota in the last instant and then tries to refocus on the ball, he’s going to screw up.

    He wasn’t off balance or out of control as he was trying to clear the ball,
    and went down because his foot hit Jota’s chest.
     
  6. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    Now I’m going to take the other side of the argument. Arsenal’s improved play has been because they are moving the ball much more quickly. Their best moments recently have been when they, including Xhaka, have played a lot of one touch or quick two touch passes, but that’s never been Xhaka’s forte. Playing the ball more quickly has not been driven by Xhaka.
     
  7. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If he wasn’t supposed to go so far then it speaks to @mebeSajid ’s point that Gabriel was way out of position. If he was it speaks to @mebeSajid’s point that there are tactical issues if Xhaka is constantly finding himself in these scenarios.

    Also, I think Ramsdale’s role has gone with little scrutiny but was a factor. He got really far out before backing off and Xhaka was clearly looking for some guidance from him before realizing that Ramsdale was in the weeds.
     
    daedalus repped this.
  8. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The team has played faster and progressed the ball better with Xhaka in it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I’ve said many times that I think we have to find a way to move on from our reliance on Xhaka, but we haven’t got the personnel to do so. We can’t do it until we replace his skill set with a player who is definitely not on the payroll now or change what we do entirely or both.
     
    daedalus repped this.
  9. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    i'm not keen on the idea of weakening the center of the pitch. :-/
     
    cooper7d7 repped this.
  10. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    The issues are due to our team being built to hide Xhaka’s limitations.

    And he doesn’t pay attention defensively and often gets himself in trouble.

    He sucks and need to go.
     
    DutchCane, CarlosKaiser and daedalus repped this.
  11. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From BBC Football Daily:

    * Ben White said of Xhaka (paraphrased): “It’s not ideal, he’s looking at the ball and doesn’t know where his man is“

    * consensus is that Xhaka will receive a 2 match ban due to: a) DOGSO, b) having a prior red this season.
     
    CarlosKaiser repped this.
  12. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    #112 casoccerdad47, Jan 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
    Arsenal’s recent form is probably the best it’s been under Arteta, they have been moving the ball quicker than they have in a very long time. Xhaka has two years under Arteta, but we’re only seeing the quicker ball movement now. In fact, during his time at Arsenal he has often been one of the players that slowed play down, taking two or three touches until he could find a runner or decide to switch play. He may remain a key player, but he is not responsible for this uptick in form.
     
  13. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    some fun bits from orbinho:

    - Sambi Lokonga made the most successful passes of any Arsenal player today - 12.

    - Arsenal's passing accuracy tonight was 48% - the lowest on record for an Arsenal game in our database.

    - Arsenal with 20% possession in the first half.
     
  14. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    i mean, i can remember people wanting tavares to replace tierney earlier this year, calling odegaard a waste of money, and being tired of partey. they all just coincidentally had an uptick in form around the time as he returned. i'm not saying we must keep xhaka at all cost - his flaws have consistently shown to be costly - but, until we get someone on the squad who has the qualities to unlock those players - seems like a distributor from that left-midfield who can also contribute defensively - xhaka is what we have. based on what little highlights i've seen and what super llama said earlier, bruno might be that guy? maybe danilo is potentially that guy? but none are here.
     
  15. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That seems a little odd. IIRC our possession was about 33% when Xhaka was sent off at 24’. And we finish the entire match with 22%.

    Which reminds me of something I’ve been wondering about recently: are there any free websites which list possession for Increments smaller than an entire match?
     
  16. And_ROOS

    And_ROOS Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    Melbourne, Aus
    There were people on the Arsenal Australia page who, when I said I was annoyed we hadn't sold him to Roma and bought someone new, had the temerity to tell me how he would prove me wrong.

    Still waitin.
     
  17. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    Arsenal have 15 points from the 10 league matches in which Xhaka has started this season and 20 points from the 10 league matches when he was suspended or injured. This isn't entirely fair to Xhaka as I'm sure one could pick apart the difficulty of each schedule (Xhaka played vs Chelsea and 2x vs City, for example, but he also avoided Liverpool), but it's not like the team falls apart when he isn't around.
     
  18. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    Since a NLD thread hasn't been started yet:

     
  19. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Apparently if you can't field 13 outfield players the match can be pushed? Depending on what happens with Mari, Tomiyasu, Cedric, Odegaard, ESR, and Saka, we might have as few as ten?
     
    daedalus and CarlosKaiser repped this.
  20. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    I count 11 if we assume Saka and Cedric are out and Smith Rowe and Tomiyasu aren’t sufficiently recovered to play. This also assume Mari is recovered from covid. The irony is that the only covid case is Odegaard.


    Holding
    White
    Gabriel
    Mari

    Partey. AFCON
    Lokonga
    Xhaka. Red Card
    Elneny AFCON
    Tierney
    Tomiyasu Injured
    Tavares
    Chambers

    Cedric. Injured
    Aubameyang. AFCON
    Lacazette
    Nketiah

    Pepe. AFCON
    Saka. Injured?
    Martinelli
    Smith-Rowe. Injured
    Odegaard. Covid
    Kola. Injured
     
  21. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Hell yes, push it back. Would much prefer a deeper pool of player options, plus there's the bonus of adding to S***s fixture congestion down the line.
     
    maskito repped this.
  22. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #122 daedalus, Jan 14, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
    ah, but you aren't liverpool so you get to "deal with it".
     
  23. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    The opposing view is that you only have ONE positive Covid player .. plus you’ve let a couple of players go in this window and in talks about moving a third player out in the coming days ..
     
  24. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    That’s eleven good players and then add some youngsters ?!?!
     
  25. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I thought that might happen. Any news on that? I'll create the NLD thread a little later.
     

Share This Page