I havent made a long post in a while, and I know how much those mods, El-Cap and 26 miss it, as well as the quasi-mod Dakota. So here it is! LINK My question to you all is, in your opinion, are we better off without Xabi Alonso? Our defence-midfield shape last season looked something like this... ___________Carra_________Skrtel___________ Arbeloa___________Alonso____________Aurelio _________________Masch__________________ ...with a much bigger gap between Alonso-Masch and Torres. Also, this meant that if Masch needed to track back and cover for Arbs/Aurelio, then he had a lot more ground to cover and therefore, was less effective further up the pitch. This season, with Masch playing a more natural DM position and playing a deep-distributing pivot role that is better suited to his game, this also, in-turn allows Lucas and Aquilani to play a more natural box-to-box, playmaking game. This year, along with the purchase of Glen Johnson, our forwards and wide players have a lot more support from midfield, therefore meaning we will also be able to play a higher tempo game style. Rafa made these comments more than 1 year ago about how he would like his team to play. Reading this, it is quite clear that players like Aquilani and Lucas are the ideal type of midfielder that Rafa wants to achieve this balanced team. Both of these players have more mobility and the ability to play in different positions, roles as well as playing in different styles. They are all-round midfielders that have the versatility, tactically, technically and mentally to control a game against any opponent. The next paragraph, clearly explains Rafa's choices of better team players, such as Yossi, Kuyt, Lucas and Aquilani who can all fit into a team, rather than have a team built around them. Rafa wants to carry the game to the opposition. This does not mean that we need 50+% possession in a game. Rather, we must have control of the game and play it on our terms. The two matches vs Madrid and the match against Man Utd at Old Trafford were 3 matches where we carried the game to the opposition and played it the way we wanted to. This is what Rafa wants to be able to do consistently throughout a season. Its also clear that he doesnt want to and hasnt created a team like Arsenal, who, while they might look good on occasion, are one of the only top teams that are unable to revert to a plan B. Rafa wants winning football. Wenger wants beautiful football. I know which one I would take, especially when the former will also include good football for the majority of the time. Rafa has a core group of players now - Reina, Skrtel, Agger, Johnson, Insua, Masch, Lucas, Aquilani, Kuyt, Gerrard and Torres - who are all capable of playing multiple game styles and all have the ability to make the correct "team efficient" decisions depending on the situation. I dont think we will see the full capability of this side until next season. Ive played down my realistic expectations slightly this year due to Rafa slightly changing the team's game style, due to Alonso's absence. Rafa's wanted XI for next season??? ______________________Reina______________________ ____________Skrtel_______________Agger____________ _____________________Masch_________________Insua Johnson____________Aquilani/Lucas__________________ _____________________Gerrard_____________________ ____________Kuyt___________________Silva_________ ______________________Torres_____________________ This system and team, if it worked, would be the best definition/example of total football for a long time. High pressing and high tempo, with versatile and athletic players capable of playing on any line in defence, midfield or attack as well as players capable of playing possession orientated circulation football as well as counter-attacking football. The team would play a high defensive line, with both full-backs instructed to make aggressive, damaging forward runs and the central defenders allowed to step up into midfield and over-run the opposition with numbers in the centre of the pitch. The central midfielders and wide, attacking players all have interchangeable roles when the team is in possession, with width provided by those full-backs. To complete the criteria of total football would be for the team to employ a very aggressive pressing game when not in possession, with the front 4 (wingers/wide attackers, second-striker and centre-forward) all pressuring the opposing defence high up the pitch to win back possession as early as possible. Ill re-iterate my initial question. Are we better off without Xabi Alonso? And Ill add another question. Is Rafa's long-term, major goal, that of creating a balanced and organised football team, that plays winning football, a mix between two great tacticians of our game, Arrigo Sacchi and Rinus Michels? A mix between the catenaccio style and total football style. How good would this style be? It would be, IMO, the closest to perfect that any football team would be able to achieve.
I believe right now obviously we're not better off without Xabi, but I fully agree with your post on all points. This change to the flexability of the system is much needed and im relishing the prospect of a more dynamic midfield combined with real attacking fullbacks. 30M for a fantastic but tactically limited player is great business IMO for the coffers and the transistion to a more fluid LFC. Valencia under Rafa were bordering total football, lack of funding is what turned Rafa's head, lets hope we don't make the same mistake. Great post by the way.
Grinners. I am guessing you have been reading the tactic book and have had too much time on your hands?
I agree. This is a more extended version of my posts in other threads to the effect that Alonso will cause problems for Madrid and that in the long run his loss won't hurt us.
Hope it pans out I felt that the small dig at arsenal was un-called for, but whatever, this is the LFC forum. never the less , quality post and a quality read.
Do you have any evidence that Arsenal are capable of playing a compact, counter-attacking game style? Thats all I was talking about. They are not a complete team until they are able to do that.
I'll leave the evidence to the results on the pitch. discussion and stats are fine, i enjoy the reads, but come may, we'll see whether or not losing xabi was beneficial or detrimental to your title hopes. same with arsenal, we'll see if losing adebayor & kolo was helpful or if we helped City dislodge a member of the top4.
I think you were missing the point. At the moment, yes, we have a weaker team due to Xabi's absence. However, in the longer term we are going to be a better team. Liverpool is also not a complete team. These days, there is no team that is close to being complete. The Man Utd team of 2 seasons ago with Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo as forwards playing under Carlos Queiroz were very close to being able to master counter-attacking football as well as playmaking football.
First of, great write up. You bring up some very interesting points. I think time will tell whether or not we're better off without Alonso. On one hand, in Alonso we had one of the best deep lying playmakers/distributors of the ball in the world who could control the game against any opposition. With him gone we gave up a vital component to our team, particularly against the bigger teams, in which Alonso almost always stood out and played a detrimental role. On the other hand, Alonso was a specialty player whose tactical position and game made him quite static in the grand scheme of things as was pointed out in the article. Our entire game was in large part centered and dependent around and on whether or not Alonso could fulfill his duty as a deep lying distributing playmaker. If Alonso had an off day it affected the rest of the team. If he was on his game (as he was last season) it allowed us to put on some of the greatest displays we've see from Liverpool this decade. The good news is that kind of "dependency" on one players form is done away with but now we will need to replicate the hole left by a player who could effectively control and run the game on his own. It can be done in my opinion given the players we have available. In any transition like this, things will depend heavily on the player(s) who will fill in for him because in the immediate aftermath that player will be asked to essentially take over Alonso's role and repeat his performances and be THAT type of player. So far Lucas has had those shoes to fill and its clear that he isn't the exact type of player so discrepencies arise early on, thats not to say he didn't do a good job, they just have two different sets of attributes. In this transition the player will affect the entire formation and the rest of the team will need to adapt to and around the difference. Seeing how Lucas and Aquilani are more versatile players though could make their part on the team more conducive to the system Benitez desires in the long run. Two things need to happen though for the transition to be complete. 1. Both Lucas and Aquilani will need to raise their games a bit. 2. Benitez must ensure that the rest of the team complies with the change and the new players brought into the system. If both occur we won't be missing Alonso in the long run. Ideally, all managers aim for their sides to be a balanced team capable of playing both attacking and defensive football effectively and being able to tactically adapt to match their opponents and different circumstances. The best example of this in recent memory was United which pretty much perfected this up until last year when some of their problems become more and more evident. We have the potential to become this team as far as I'm concerned but there is still some work to be done including the polishing of our tactics and some needed improvement from certain players.
post of year. My gut feeling at the time was that we were semi-doomed when alonso left becouse it seemed that Rafa had wanted to keep him. Perhaps the truth is he just wanted one more year from him becouse he was at very the top of his game. Watching mash and lucas swiftly and steadily improve the distribution patterns from the spurs first half to the stoke second gives me a lot of heart about the matter. aquilani coming in will enchance this even further and of course benitez is a master mechanic to boot. Rafas has always loved interchangable parts like that and its true its been a very steady progression to the right versatile players all over. Wouldnt we all like to see young Insua Lad explode in a ball of fire this year, becouse then the up and down of the 2 fullbacks will just mess with peoples minds. You can sure see where a Whirling Dervish team that attacks and defends in great, buzzsaw actions in the right places at the right times could be coming about. even the damn goalie gets lots of assists, has a great long pass and on the last corner when behind hes a threat to score in the box with his head or feet Hell if gillicks would cough up we could play that team in January, lacking only silva. Anyway great thread. and one last random thought, hasnt he just about ditched every single body who was kinda one dimensional? Crouch. Didi. Momo. Baros... whoever, you name it. Very interesting. Hes go 5 years firm he had to earn hard so im sure he wants to take another step forward with the team. go rafa go.
A very good observation, sir. And a good poster, Grinners. I have a slight disagreement-- I think Alonso is a good ball-winner but he just isn't mobile enough so needs a more dymnamic partner besides him.
A good ball winner cant be someone who isnt mobile enough to do so. Its like saying someone is a great header of the ball, but he also cant get off the ground. Yes, in some situations his ability will be of use, but most of the time he'll be useless. When Spain played in a 4-4-2 with Xabi and Xavi as CM's, with Xavi slightly advanced, Spain struggled. They have always looked better in a 4-5-1 (of any sort) with Torres or Villa up front. Due to Xabi's lack of mobility, pace and ability to shut down opponents on a counter-attack, Spain's defence were literally rooted by some teams, especially the USA.
Yup, its the same with many players similar to Alonso. Carrick is always best when he has someone next to him that can hold down the midfield and win the ball. Most famous example is of course Gattuso and Pirlo. Without that protection, players like Alonso and Pirlo aren't able to execute their passing like they do and wouldn't nearly be as effective.