Liverpool FC vs West Ham - EPL - Feb 24 [R]

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by el-capitano, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. Suss

    Suss Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 11, 2003
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Thats just not true. What facts?

     
  2. newterp

    newterp Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 6, 2007
    North Potomac, MD
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nailed it.
     
  3. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you are grossly overstating the case. Keita's stats, as posted in the links above, are not superior to Wijnaldum's. Percentage of tackles won, for example. Keita's percentage less than 50%; Wijnaldum's around 2/3rds. Games per assist. Wijnaldum's numbers are half again as good as Keita's. It's unfair to count goal production, as Gini has played so many more games than Naby. I couldn't find pass completion percentage numbers quickly, but I would guess that Keita's percentage isn't significantly better than Wijnaldum's

    As I previously said, Keita has not yet reached his football prime, so he may be the better player in a year or two, but current form favors Gini.
     
  4. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nabby is a solid talent but he has been hampered by injuries. When he's had a run of games he's shown improvement only to be nobbled by yet another injury. I have no doubt about his quality though he needs to stay healthy.
    Keita is an important piece in Klopp's mf set up a super option for him to have in the squad.
     
  5. Suss

    Suss Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 11, 2003
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nobody was comparing Keita to Wijna
    Who was comparing Naby to Gini anyway? It most cases he’s most directly compared to Ox. The club have mathematicians with PHD’s analyzing way more advanced stats than you are referring to. Below is a comparison of Keita to Wijnaldum that I found and it shows that Naby far exceeds Gini in these advanced statistics which can measure the pass before the pass. Don’t ask me to explain what they mean because I don’t know enough about them. Last year there was an article (I think in The NY Times) that detailed the work that is done behind the scenes using computer models to identify players. Liverpool has been incredibly successful at recruiting the right talent. The article mentioned that Naby Keita rated off the charts using the clubs models. That’s why we were so desperate to sign him. Despite having an underwhelming career at Liverpool so far, those stats still say that Naby is producing.

    upload_2020-2-27_10-24-51.jpeg

    I hate comparing our own players anyway. Gini Wijnaldum is a brilliant player who has his own role. When you’re the best team in the world you must have the best players in the world. You shouldn’t have to put down one player to talk up another one.

    Wijnaldum, Henderson, and Fabinho is a world class midfield, but sometimes it is lacking the type of qualities that Naby offers.
     

    Attached Files:

    Samarkand, newterp and delaynomo repped this.
  6. Wingtips1

    Wingtips1 Member+

    May 3, 2004
    02116
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Harry Kewell scored big goals for us. He started a Champions League final and other big games despite not being fit.
    Was he a success? No. A failure? No.
    Keita has put in some big performances for us. He has started in big games for us.
    Is he a success? No. A failure? No.

    Trust me, ALL of us are rooting for Naby to become the best midfielder in the world. None of us actually want him to fail. But we're in year 2 of him being unable to stay fit or outperform the legacy midfielders. Would we have been better with Fekir? (I know their signings weren't either/or, but they were available for similar prices and the one that wasn't signed because of supposed 'injury' threat has not had any injuries.)
     
  7. Suss

    Suss Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 11, 2003
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Better than 26 wins out of 27?
     
  8. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    #109 zaqualung, Mar 3, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020

    That's true enough, but it doesn't really take into account the dynamism of Keita's game. Wijnaldum's game requires that he be part of the presuure that allows the front three to break through the opposition line. Keita's game involves a whole different approach to breaking the opposition line. When's he (or Oxlade) is playing reasonably well alongside any two of the standard three midfield, all things being equal, the opposition defence will have a harder time keeping the spaces from opening up in and around the box for the forwards... he's got an ability to dribble directly that none of the other midfielders has....
     
  9. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Harry Kewell was a world class player, whatever anyone cares to think. Injuries fvcked his Liverpool career.
    Also, take a look at the 2007 CL final highlights again. Harry Kewell came off the bench and was a bad Stevie G decision away from being put through into an uncatchable position running onto their goal with just the keeper to beat AND in the left-foot shooting channel. What would your money reckon would have happened there??
     
  10. el-capitano

    el-capitano Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 30, 2005
    Sydney
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    He would've pulled a hammy, and fell over :D

    Look- I'm the biggest 'Arry fanboy here, being Aussie as well, but his Liverpool career, the less said the better ;)
     
  11. delaynomo

    delaynomo Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Absolutely world class at his peak. But that was well behind him by the time he joined us.
     
  12. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    :ROFLMAO:


    I wouldn't say well behind him. But his proneness to injury was certainly never going to let him get back to where he was......

    Anyway, I wish Gerrard had passsed that ball....
     

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