Lionel Messi to MLS?.. The Saga Starts Part 1 [R]

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by Replikait, Mar 27, 2023.

  1. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Messi got desperate towards the end of the match with Orlando - I think it was still 2-0 at that point, and he dove shamelessly in the box. Should have been a yellow for simulation. And there was another one where it wasn't maybe so much of a dive but he was playing for a foul. Suarez is way, way worse. He'll start trying to cheat as soon as they fall behind.
     
  2. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    #2677 bsman, May 19, 2025
    Last edited: May 19, 2025
    All those who are shocked, shocked! raise your hand...

    Somewhat related - I know the law says simulation MUST be booked for UB:

    "There are different circumstances when a player must be cautioned for unsporting behaviour including if a player:
    • attempts to deceive the referee, e.g. by feigning injury or pretending to have been fouled (simulation)"
    but in reality, it's rarely so cut and dried, and in my experience - even at the younger levels - dragging out a yellow for simulation is almost universally met with loud indignation by players, coaches, spectators, etc. You can't change a long-established behavior by "empowering" referees - there has to be a cultural change and I have seen absolutely nothing from FIFA that indicates they are prepared to do this.
     
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  3. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #2678 falvo, May 19, 2025
    Last edited: May 19, 2025
    Messi and Miami looked horrible last night.

    I think they need to sign some new players come June.

    Their defense was just bad.

    I think this is Messi's second yellow in successive games, first against the Quakes and now Orlando.

    Unless the Disco gives him a break, he will probably be out next week against Philly.
     
  4. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    I’ve seen bookings for simulation. But like anything else it’s a judgment call and would need to be fairly unequivocal. I think sometimes they are given retroactively. I thought this one was pretty blatant. Will they give Messi a retroactive yellow for simulation so that he has to miss the next game, when the team is struggling and the league’s whole marketing strategy is that Miami is a super team? Um, no…

    Maybe Bruce, Messi’s new “caution protector”, will call the league’s office to make sure it doesn’t happen.
     
  5. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Yeah, the Laws of the Game have a Messi exception. :)
     
  6. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    They're in there somewhere if you look hard enough. The fine print at the end?
     
  7. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    The league just created a new "exceptional registration window" where (only) teams participating in the Club World Cup can transfer players in a 10-day window in early June. Let's call it the "Miami Needs A Bankie" transfer period.
     
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  8. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Just in time for Miami to sign CR7 as I just read his contract with Al-Nassr is up.
     
  9. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Can he play defense?
     
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  10. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    No but along with the other old cronies, he can be part of the new Over 40 club!

    Crisitano Ronaldo age 40

    Oscar Ustari age 38

    Luis Suárez 38

    Lionel Messi 38

    Jordi Alba 36

    Sergio Busquets 37

    How about 37.83 for an average age of 6 starters?
     
  11. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Yeah, ref-blaming isn't going to fix their problems. It only distracts them and delays them from fixing their issues. Maybe MLS ref'ing isn't great but unless he's gonna argue that they are biased against Miami (hah!) then the "badness" should affect each team equally. He should have received a yellow for simulation late in that game, for example.
     
  12. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you're listing Cristiano Ronaldo who isn't even rumored to be coming to MLS to come up with your average age for those Inter Miami starters?

    Inter Miami has also given more minutes to U23s than any other MLS team so far this season

     
  13. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #2689 falvo, May 19, 2025
    Last edited: May 19, 2025
  14. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    don gagliardi repped this.
  15. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Gi
    I thought Messi had a point about the Orlando GK picking up the back pass from his defender, which led to the GK getting an assist on a goal at the other end. Don't get the "intent" caveat to the rule. How do we know what the defender's intent was when he passed the ball back to the keeper?
     
  16. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Can never have too many. Need a FC at the end, though.
     
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  17. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    He may have had a point, but regardless you always have to play to the whistle. The Quakes have gotten burned on this multiple times this year (particularly Ricketts) by assuming that someone was offisde when he was ruled on.
     
  18. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think I buy the explanation here:

    The play in question doesn't really look like an intentional back pass to the keeper. It looked more like he was trying to lay it off toward his fellow defender but drifted past him, where it was picked up by GK Gallese. The angle of the strike just doesn't make sense otherwise. It's not reviewable by VAR either but it's certainly not an obviously wrong decision to allow the keeper to handle the ball.
     
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  19. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Messi is "not obviously wrong" to be upset, either. Because the player made a backpass to his keeper, who picked it up before assisting on a goal at the other end.

    The issue to me is why the backpass rule requires intentionality. This introduces unnecessary -- and unfalsifiable -- discretion into the call. The rule should be that if you pass the ball back to your keeper, he cannot pick it up. Period.

    You good with an intentionality caveat for offside? For kicking a player in the head? Thought not.

    The defect in this instance is with the game of soccer, not Messi.
     
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  20. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #2696 JazzyJ, May 19, 2025
    Last edited: May 19, 2025
    Similar to what I don’t like about “passive offside”. The ref has to determine if the passive offside player(s) “interfered” with the defenders / GK. The bar is pretty high but it introduces judgement unnecessarily and leaves it open for abuse. I would in favor of - it’s offside when any player is offside. Maybe it would reduce scoring slightly but it would simplify the game and take more judgment out of the hands of the refs (always a good thing).
     
  21. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Earthquakes and Bay FC
    United States
    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    My long-time soccer friend Jim, referee with 60+ years experience, had this to say about the calls on Messi during our game.

    Miami could have won in stoppage time but for the three stops on Messi. The latter so frustrated him that he earned a caution for dissent. He sought out the referee after the match to continue his dissent, and the referee, somewhat unprofessionally, responded as forcefully as Messi was dishing it out. Fortunately, Arena acted as the adult in the room and stepped in to steer Messi away before the latter was the shown a red card.

    When I say somewhat unprofessionally, in my world, when a player approaches you angrily, you do not engage in a shouting match as this man did. you stand your ground and listen. How you react depends on whether you know the player and, if so, how well. As he winds down, you may say, "I hear you." If the two of you are well acquai nted and respect each other, you may go one step further and say calmly, but firmly, "You're wrong." If he shows no indication of winding down, you may repeat yourself and show a hand reaching to your shirt, if this is his first dissent, or the back pocket of your shorts if, as in Messi's case, he's already been booked for dissent. If he uses untoward language or is insulting, you say something like, "I've heard enough" and show either the yellow or the red, as the case may be.


    Not the interpretation I'd expected from him, and I thought the referees remained professional at the end.
     
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  22. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I’m told we may hear Dickerson’s side of it secondhand as told to local refs, in due course.
     
  23. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Geez sounds like marriage counseling or something. “I hear what you’re saying, honey” and “Make sure you respect each other’s boundaries!”.
     
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  24. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I was taught you didn’t talk back to refs. Or judges.

    “Bring your toothbrush.” :)
     
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