Link between Frank Herbert's "Dune" and Iraqi military?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Mel Brennan, Mar 26, 2003.

  1. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan AN INTERVIDUAL

    Apr 8, 2002
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Link between Frank Herbert's "Dune" and Iraqi military tradition?

    Arrakis. Dune. Desert Planet.

    Iraq. Sand dunes. Desert nation.

    "Fedayeen"= feared Iraqi paramilitary group that uses the desert well.

    "Fedaykin" = feared Arrakis/Fremen crack troops that uses the desert best.


    Did Herbert draw much of his trilogy from the Iraqi "story"? Am I way late with this comparison and just missed it elsewhere?
     
  2. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The spice must flow.

    It's a valid, IMO, comparison. However, Dune is far older than this conflict! I can't recall the exact publication dates of the original books (70's?), but certainly a parrallel between Arrakis and the Middle East as well as Spice and Oil can easily be drawn.
     
  3. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dune was first published in 1965

    Emperor Shaddam IV - Saddam?
     
  4. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan AN INTERVIDUAL

    Apr 8, 2002
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Indeed, the spice/oil must flow...interesting! No, I agree that Dune was written a long time ago; I'm assuming that the Iraqis have used the term "Fedayeen" for a period dating back before the Dune series...

    What other parallels can be drawn...?
     
  5. joseph pakovits

    joseph pakovits New Member

    Apr 29, 1999
    fly-over country
    So, who is Chani? Please, please don't say Christine Amanpour.
     
  6. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan AN INTERVIDUAL

    Apr 8, 2002
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    I got a guy here whose telling me that "Fedayeen" is an Islamic term that was also used by the psychos who did Munich in 72; supposedly means "commandos" or "freedom fighters" in Arabic...

    So its an Islamic tradition, and not specifically an Iraqi one, that Herbert is likely drawing upon...
     
  7. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    It means "one who sacrifices himself"
     
  8. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Fremen are clearly Arabic in nature, while the Bene Jeserit (sp? It's been so long...) are painfully Catholic.

    The bigger question than "who is Chani" is "who is Paul Atraides" in this parallel!
     
  9. 352klr

    352klr Member+

    Jan 29, 2001
    The Burgh of Edin
    From Terrorism:Assassins to Zealots by Sloan and Anderson:

    Fedayeen or fida'iyin "one who offers slef-sacrifice, that is, one who offers himself sacrificially in a holy struggle. This name has been adopted by at least four different groups in the history of terrorism.
    1. The Isma'ili Fedayeen. In the 11th and 12th centruy....
    2. The Fedayan-i Islam. An Iranian terrorist group founded by the Shi'ite junior clergyman Navab Safavi in 1944 to kill Iranian intellectuals and politicians held to be responsible for the decline of Islam in Iran....
    3.The Palestinian Fedayeen. Wit the rise of Palestinian terrorist and guerilla attacks on Irael...the term fedayeen came to be used by Palestinians to designate guerrilla fighters attacking Israel without being exclusively reserved for the fighters of any single Palestinian group....
    4.The Fedaya-e Khalq-e Iran. The "People's Fedayeen of Iran" was a Marxist guerrilla group that split from the Iranian Communist Party in 1963. It's members were mainly university students who received guerrilla training in PLO camps in Lebanon and Southern Yemen.

    We can add to that Saddam's Fedayeen.
     
  10. SoFla Metro

    SoFla Metro Member

    Jul 21, 2000
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Re: Link between Frank Herbert's "Dune" and Iraqi military tradition?

    Yes, Frank Herbert traveled forward in time to gather information about his book from today's conflict.
     
  11. Leto

    Leto New Member

    Aug 23, 2001
    Donegal,Ireland
    I actually wondered about that when I read about the Fedayeen in the papers today. Problem with that is that Saddam is a poor follow on to Leto and Paul Atreides.......then again, Bush seems to share certain characteristics with Baron Harkonnen.
     
  12. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    Wouldn't it be more like the US is the invaders of the planet?

    Oh wait, forgot, those were the bad guys. Can't be us.
     
  13. mannyfreshstunna

    mannyfreshstunna New Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Naperville, no less
    It means "men of sacrifice"
     
  14. angus_hooligan

    angus_hooligan New Member

    May 15, 2001
    Chicago
    Re: Re: Link between Frank Herbert's "Dune" and Iraqi military tradition?

    No, no, no he drew all of this from a prophecy that he had. His interpretation was just off a little bit.
     
  15. Vegalta_Sendai

    Feb 14, 2000
    Santa Clara, CA, USA
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a pretty interesting read about the origin of the novels, by Frank Herbert himself:

    http://www.dunenovels.com/news/genesis.html

    At any rate, Paul Muad'Dib's Fedaykin are as nuts as Saddam's Fedayeen...

    -Adam
     
  16. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan AN INTERVIDUAL

    Apr 8, 2002
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    From above site:
    Personal observation has convinced me that in the power area of politics/economics and in their logical consequence, war, people tend to give over every decision-making capacity to any leader who can wrap himself in the myth fabric of the society. Hitler did it. Churchill did it. Franklin Roosevelt did it. Stalin did it. Mussolini did it.

    My favorite examples are John F. Kennedy and George Patton. Both fitted themselves into the flamboyant Camelot pattern, consciously assuming bigger-than-life appearance. But the most casual observation reveals that neither was bigger than life. Each had our common human ailment-clay feet.

    This, then, was one of my themes for Dune: Don't give over all of your critical faculties to people in power, no matter how admirable those people may appear to be. Beneath the hero's facade you will find a human being who makes human mistakes. Enormous problems arise when human mistakes are made on the grand scale available to a superhero. And sometimes you run into another problem.

    It is demonstrable that power structures tend to attract people who want power for the sake of power and that a significant proportion of such people are imbalanced-in a word, insane.


    Any analogies to the current administration, and their scyophantic Congress?
    Hell, its low-hangin' fruit...and Congress, sans Barbara Lee, ought to sent directly to jail for failing to defend the Constitution...
     
  17. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan AN INTERVIDUAL

    Apr 8, 2002
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Even more fun, from same site:

    Yes, there are analogs in Dune of today's events-corruption and bribery in the highest places, whole police forces lost to organized crime, regulatory agencies taken over by the people they are supposed to regulate. The scarce water of Dune is an exact analog of oil scarcity. CHOAM is OPEC.

    The dirty black spice...must flow.
     
  18. DoctorJones24

    DoctorJones24 Member

    Aug 26, 1999
    OH
    I recently listened to the novel again (during commute) and this time I was struck by all the Arabic sources for names/places, etc. As a moderate-to-good Arabic speaker myself, this was something I had of course entirely missed when reading it as a kid. I'm sure there's some pretty decent academic work out there on this connection, btw, but I haven't bothered to look for it. I know Herbert was heavily interested in the environment, particularly water retention, so I would bet he had made a few trips to the Mid East or North Africa and borrowed on that atmosphere for his novels.

    Lucas did the same for the early scenes of Star Wars, using the sights and sounds of Tunisia and Morocco as his inspiration.
     
  19. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    I was struck how our embeds filming in a sandstorm looked a lot like Dino DeLaurentis' terrible film version of Dune ... at least the 10 minutes I saw.
     

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