Linguistics

Discussion in 'Education and Academia' started by Ombak, Aug 5, 2004.

  1. needs

    needs Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Brooklyn
    One thing to figure out is what fascinates you about language/linguistics. The development of language over time? The underlying structures of language? The social use of language? While I've never taken a linguistics course, I can imagine several areas of study offered by any decent liberal arts college that would allow you to explore those interests.

    If you're interested in the social and cultural use of language, anthropology coursework, especially in linguistic anthro would be great. For the development and structures of western languages, classics and Latin. Obviously philosophy courses spend a lot of time exploring the material world and out ability to know it through language.

    I think more than extensive linguistics coursework, grad schools want well articulated interests. One thing I've been advising my students to do is to figure out what the 2-3 questions/issues are that fascinate them, and work to bring those interests to bear on the classes they take.

    Where are you thinking of going to school? I think I remember St. John's. Is that still the leader?
     
  2. Pierre-Henri

    Pierre-Henri New Member

    Jun 7, 2004
    Strasbourg, France.
    Latin, latin, latin. For all studies in occidental languages, you must know latin. And, for a grammar nerd, it's an essential pick.

    In humanities, undergraduate work is important. In fact, in humanities, each and every second of your curriculum is important. Jobs are very few, and there is no room for failure.

    Then, everything depends what kind of linguistics you want to do : history of languages ? modern languages ? And what language exactly ?

    Two obvious advices :

    - an international curriculum is a real asset in linguistics. Check the international potential of your college : do they have overseas programs ? Do they have foreign teachers ? It's always nice to have contacts abroad fairly early.

    - take some minor courses in something potentially lucrative (like languages applied to business, translation...). Sooner or later, you'll have to make money. A 100% humanities curriculum may look romantic, but it can also leave you with empty pockets.
     
  3. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I'd just like to add for now (will try to add more later) that start w/ Spanish or French, or any language to which you will be exposed and/or can practice regularly. Master that language, then proceed w/ Latin. It's a lot easier that way, as Latin grammar is quite complex and languages tend towards simplification over time. So you start off w/ the simpler language(s), and those provide a great gateway to the complex mother language.
     
  4. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    I'm interested more in the historical and cultural aspects of linguistics than the psychological and physiological aspects, personally.

    As of now, these are the five main colleges that I'm considering attending, for various reasons:

    St. John's
    Bennington (Vermont)
    Middlebury
    Hampshire (Massachusetts)
    Bard (New York)

    Most of these schools have flexible programs that essentially allow you to create your own major, which is obviously a large advantage. And, I'm also hoping to study abroad at some point, which Middlebury is apparently renowned for. Bard has a Foreign Languages & Cultures program where I could focus on a few specific languages, and probably would go abroad at some point. I would imagine that if I focused my undergraduate curriculum around subjects dealing with language in general, it would be a reasonable subsitute for an out-and-out lingustics major when applying to grad school.
     
  5. needs

    needs Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Brooklyn
    Distrunner

    Clear out some PM space.
     
  6. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
  7. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    As far as your collateral Romance language, one of the "plusses" should then be a school w/ a separate tract for linguistics and literature. You will need to have a strong understanding of figurative language expressed in literature in order to get a strong overview of historico-cultural machinations of languages. As a lit person, my main complaint w/ my linguistics students is that they haven't nurtured their comprehension of literature enough.

    Early on, you want to take a history and/or art history course of the nation whose language you are studying for your collateral. (Which is it, btw?) I teach Spanish, and in the lower division courses, we are so focused on language skills that we cannot get into any depth beyond the superficial details of history. The students who have a stronger background in history and culture of the Spanish speaking world, are at a major advantage when it comes to performing in the course and they set themselves up for future success.

    Also, the faster you master your first foreign language and the farther you progress in it, the better off you are to get started early on your 3rd and 4th language. I was able to finish my BA having satisfied 4 language requirements of the 5 I needed for my PhD. So while my colleagues were studying 3 separate languages, I was able to focus on other things. :)

    Oh, and don't be surprised (in fact, be prepared) if your major changes. I started off as a philosophy major but then switched to English, then to Comp Lit and then to Spanish... b/c I was interested in post-colonial... philosophy. :)
    I'm fairly familiar w/ Middlebury's summer programs and their abroad programs. While solid, they're nothing spectacular. The truly "spectacular" programs are the ones in which you are immersed as much as possible. Taking classes w/ other Americans ain't immersion. Some Middlebury programs allow, facilitate or encourage direct enrollment in the local university. They're moving away from the programs where you study exclusively w/ Americans, thank heavens. Your best bet for learning the language while being intellectually stimulated is to study in a provincial capital: it's the easiest way to make local friends. In large cities like Madrid, Paris, etc., they're sick of foreigners, and they're sick of Americans.

    My one complaint w/ Middlebury is the language pledge. To me... it just got on my last nerve. (My girlfriend did an MA at Middlebury.)
     
  8. Pierre-Henri

    Pierre-Henri New Member

    Jun 7, 2004
    Strasbourg, France.
    I completely agree here. The smaller the better. Foreign students who come in big cities sooner or later regroup and talk among themselves. The americans talk with americans in english, the japanese talk with the japanese, and the chinese with the chinese. On the other hand, when you're in the middle of nowhere, you have no other choice than to blend in the scenery.

    For example, a program in Paris may look great... for tourism, but if you want to learn the language and culture, seek total immersion.

    However, i disagree on the latin issue. Latin is the source of all romance languages, I think it's more logical to take lessons as early as possible. Especially since latin is a very difficult language : drill exercices are necessary, and require time.

    And latin courses are the place where the real grammar nerds show themselves. With more than 15 grammatical tenses spreading over 7 different conjugations (x2 with the passive), and dozains, and dozains and dozains* of declensions, that's not a language for sissies. Be a man !

    -------------
    * and dozains.
     
  9. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I say this as a Spanish professor who comes across the issue every semester.

    First of all, from a practical standpoint, a modern language is far more likely to be applicable in a non-academic setting. And even in an academic setting, a modern language is far more "practical". More and more these days what defines a candidate are the collateral fields. Unfortunately, Latin just doesn't have as much of a demand as Spanish, Chinese or French.

    Pedagogically speaking, for non-Romance language and non-German speakers, you are much better off starting w/ the most "useful" (i.e., the one you are most likely to use daily/weekly and/or study abroad program) Romance language, mastering it, and then going to Latin. At that point, the grammar nerds dominate.

    For Romance language native speakers who have studied their native grammar (a major issue here in the US w/ so many bilingual ppl for whom Spanish, French, Portuguese or Italian exist as oral languages) then Latin is fine as the next language. "Heritage Learners" (oral language speakers), they should first study their native language, then another Romance language (you'd be amazed at how difficult it is to train the adult brain to conceive of an oral language as a written one), and THEN Latin.

    Of course, heritage learners can always go directly into Latin at any point, but w/o training the brain to distinguish grammatical nuances in the heritage language, the brain collapses Latin, heritage language and English and the student is at a disadvantage.
     
  10. quentinc

    quentinc New Member

    Jan 3, 2005
    Annapolis, MD
    Most likely, my main language focus would be French. I'm also interested in literature in general, and I'm planning to take copious amounts of literature courses regardless of my major.

    I was talking to my Spanish teacher (who did study abroad in Sevilla) and she said the exact same thing. What schools do have good language study abroad programs? Besides, if I did go to France, I really wouldn't want to spend my time in Paris anyway.
     
  11. Pierre-Henri

    Pierre-Henri New Member

    Jun 7, 2004
    Strasbourg, France.
    A true connoisseur choice ! The language of all genius (and humility) !

    BTW, don't forget french is an international language. If you want a bilingual curriculum, a canadian college may be a good choice (and possibly less expensive). Also, I know that some US colleges have programs with french-speaking african countries, as part of an "Africana" curriculum.

    Of course, if you're interested in french language history, this may not be a good choice.

    Beware of french universities, tough. As I said on the "France" forum, french public universities today are not far from third-world level. Don't attend an undergrad year at any french public university. Waste of time, their level utterly sucks and they look like 70' soviet union appartments. I know it's hard to believe, but level in french studies is much (much much) better in USA and Canada than it is in France(1). You have been warned.

    If you want to come in France either :
    - chose a short, full immersion period, well planned (and secured) by your college.
    - wait until postgrad level.

    Until then, if you want my advice : Quebec all the way.

    -------------------
    (1) French studies are a rather classy stuff in North America, while in France they are some sort of dump for students who were refused everywhere else. If you add the fact that french universities are non-selective by law, you're rapidly reaching the bottom of the barrel. It doesn't please me to say this to you, but this is a truth I can't deny.
     
  12. hairypotter

    hairypotter Red Card

    Apr 28, 2006
    is linguistics = study of language?
     
  13. DoctorD

    DoctorD Member+

    Sep 29, 2002
    MidAtlantic
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Folks, if English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
     
  14. LizAFC

    LizAFC New Member

    Jun 14, 2000
    San Jose
    Yeah, I'm a little late here, but yay for linguistics!

    I got my BA in Language Studies, which was very similar to the Linguistics degree but with more of a foreign language component.

    Of course Ombak and I have already spoken about this at length, but I thought I'd post here anyway. :D
     
  15. royalstilton

    royalstilton Member

    Aug 2, 2004
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On the Latin issue, I started in 9th grade. My teacher wrote the text we used. I had no sense of English grammar and learned grammar thru studying Latin. Then I had 3 years HS French and on to college with 2 more years of French and three of Spanish.

    My Spanish is good ( living in SoCal helps ), my French is poor, though when I went to France it came back to simple conversational French quickly.

    I think if you start Latin when you are younger, it will provide a broad foundation for the study of Language, but if you were to begin studying Latin at the college level ( if that's even possible??? ) I think a student would be better served studying a Romance language that developed from Latin.

    Because French is the least like the others, pronunciation wise, many English speaking students without a good ear might struggle to master the nuances of the French tongue, but from a linguistics standpoint, I don't know that it matters crucially.
     
  16. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    You can start studying Latin in college, no problem.

    But I disagree w/ starting off w/ Latin in 9th grade, at least for US students.

    It's all about language acquisition, and the fact is that Latin is dead, and not every teacher does the "living Latin" model which is much more effective for language acquisition.

    Compare a student after one year of Latin taught primarily in English vs. a student of French or German or Spanish after one year of classes taught in the target language. The living language students are going to be further along, markedly so, and will have a base to continue language study, preferably in the same language.

    Successful language learners have a "good base" for study of other languages, regardless of which foreign language they started with.

    Regarding languages taught in high school, in the US we are awful in this area: class sizes far too large and the overall study skills aren't developed to sustain successful language learning. Learning a language is a major academic undertaking.

    Latin classes in HS tend to be small. But even still, the majority of students in urban areas and many rural areas can and will have more contact w/ Spanish throughout their life, so they are much better off taking Spanish from the get-go. The grammar is less complex than Latin, which is preferable. You start off w/ the easier language and then move to the more complex once you have the skills.

    Negligible impact. A student w/ poor pronunciation oftentimes knows it and is self-conscious, which affects the affective filter and can impact progress in the language.
     
  17. StrikerCW

    StrikerCW Member

    Jul 10, 2001
    Perth, WA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Random question sort of related :D

    I love the thought of being able to speak multiple languages and have taken a few hs classes in both Spanish and French (although I'm not any good at either. :D).

    However, my main focus now (being half Chinese) I am in the first classes of Mandarin at my Uni, supposedly this will consist of 4 sems over the next 2 years. Then hopefully I can get some money off the school to go to China for a month or so in two summers. But anyway.

    Moral of the story. Mandarin is coming along decently well (its really not that hard) although writing is a bitch we won't get into. ;)

    But I would really love to learn the oral language Cantonese (the analogy is learning to speak a Romance language knowing another one first) after I get advanced at Mandarin. Also, I'd like to learn to speak at least in French decently.

    My question (EVENTUALLY) is what do you guys say are the difficulties/probabilities that I (or anyone for that matter) can learn a couple of languages (one that will mostly be just learning new vocabulary) in their 20's. Is this too late to really learn a language(s)?
     
  18. El_tri321mex

    El_tri321mex Member

    Oct 20, 2006
    berkeley
    I was once interested in linguistics then lost interest. Like you I'm also fluent in 4 languages , English ,español , Français,. The 4rth language I can speak it clearly with some bit of problems but I understand it well..Dutch.
     
  19. thetaylor310

    thetaylor310 Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    São Paulo-SP, BRASIL
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    i love languages :D

    i am fluent in Korean, English and Portuguese (getting it back after 19 yrs of not using it at all!) and have a somewhat literal (but not oral) grasp on Chinese/Mandarin

    i took French for four years in high school, but i've probably forgotten most of it and i tried to self-teach Japanese, but that is looking not too good now

    In my personal experience with the Romance languages, it became pretty easy once you know a good amount of one of them (Portuguese, Spanish, French etc). Having a large vocabulary does also help a lot, as you could find similarities in words

    As for the main East Asian languages, having some working knowledge of Chinese will help a lot, IMHO. For example, the Korean vocabulary is an estimated 75% Chinese in origin and will help in remembering the right context of what you're trying to say

    It does interest me how different languages have connections, based by loan words or what not. For example, the Korean word for "bread" (pronounced ppang) sounds similar and is derived from the Portuguese word for the same word (pão). Another one i found somewhat fascinating was the Korean word for "daddy" (pronounced as a-ppa) sounds similiar like the Hebrew abba, and also carries the same intimate and close connotation as "daddy" and not your formal "father"

    UCLACarlos, thanks for your insights! i'm gonna go home and study them some more :D
     
  20. 96Squig

    96Squig Member

    Feb 4, 2004
    Hanover
    Club:
    Hannover 96
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Like languages as well, am German, learned Latin from grades 5 to 13 in high school (even though I never excelled in it it did me good and had some historical things i found interesting), then I had to move on to English (7th to 13th grade, half a year in the US, English culture cominition and so on ;-) ), tried Spanish for half a year (was to lazy, but I will re-learn it somehow), and now learned Dutch in 2 months (being German helps). So I speak 3 languages but am able to work with five and am looking forward to expand that list.
    Latin definetly helped, at the one hand to understand German grammar at first and now just working through the comparative easy English, Spanish and Dutch grammars.
    I think I want to learn at least a few more languages, Spanish off course, but also Italian and something Scandinavian.
     

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