Libertarian Fail

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by American Brummie, May 5, 2011.

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  1. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We have a GOP fail, a Democratic Fail, an Obama fail...but there just isn't a Libertarian Fail thread! What a shame.

    To start:

    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/05/billionaire_conservative_david.html

    Every Libertarian in the world ought to be ashamed of any connection the LP has with this clown.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think anyone that supports the Department of Education is automatically a socialist to the L.P.


    How about a Green Party fail?

    I guess the Green Party is a fail on its own :( They still get my vote (along with 5 other people).
     
  3. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Technically we should get a Socialist Party Fail because Bernie Sanders is the only third-party Congressman out there, although the Paul Bros would go LP if they weren't already a part of the GOP machinery.

    I'd vote for the Greens!
     
  4. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    I'd prefer just about any party. Greens, Dems, Traditional Republicans. Whatever.

    The problem (from my viewpoint) is that Libertarianism is nice and clean when it comes to individual rights, and mostly inarguable -- but it's a mess when it comes to broader issues. Governments have a big role to play in so many matters ranging from infrastructure to defense to conservation to regulation, and Libertarians don't see it and don't permit it.

    They'd eff up the economy bigtime if they ever got real power.
     
  5. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    A private citizen doesn't give Obama the praise you think he deserves and you start a thread attacking libertarians? Just one more example of thin skinned liberal fail if you ask me.
     
  6. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A college-educated man can't define the word "socialism" and I mock him (as well as mocking the proliferation of FAIL threads on the P&CE board) without any remorse. Typical example of an idiot who doesn't even understand how to read.
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    See NZ: 1984-1987
     
  8. dogface

    dogface Let's Just Pretend

    Jun 22, 2002
    St. Peter, MN
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This is why Libertarianism fails. You're not a party, but a group of idealistic, pie-in-the-sky types. You never have take any responsibility for any political decision because you'll never be in power, so you can always blame whatever ruling party is in charge for their "bad decisions." If Libertarians were in power, then you would be plagued by a history of their bad decisions. But you get to be holier than than thou because your philosophy is never put to the test.

    And does being a Democrat or Republican mean you're any less of a private citizen? Or is it because no libertarian holds office and you think you're not a party?
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. dogface

    dogface Let's Just Pretend

    Jun 22, 2002
    St. Peter, MN
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Well, the Atlas Shrugged movie is a bomb. Nothing wrong with Rand though. Turns out it's the liberal movie critics.

     
  10. saosebastiao

    saosebastiao New Member

    May 22, 2005
    The biggest failure of Libertarianism is its absolute tendency to be whatever it wants to be in the eyes of the libertarian, while never actually being a falsifiable or disprovable yet solid position. Sure there are some generalities, but Libertarians are completely incoherent on the details.

    For example, some libertarians believe that we should continue to build more highways, some think we should abolish the interstate system. Some believe the Department of Education should be abolished and the funding should be allocated to the Military, some think the other way around. There is no single "Libertarian" position on any single issue, and all that does is prevent them from ever being wrong about anything.
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The biggest ideological fail of Libertarianism in early 21st century America is that while they're vigilant, I'd even say hypervigilant, about how the state can impinge upon individual freedom, they can't even CONCEIVE of corporations impinging upon individual freedom. Having policy prescriptions for such things is about as beyond their intellectual abilities as algebra is for ants.
     
    dapip, bigredfutbol and FormerGermanGuy repped this.
  12. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey now, don't f*** with ants.
     
  13. saosebastiao

    saosebastiao New Member

    May 22, 2005
    I can conceive of ways that corporations impinge on freedom, but I'm not so stupid as to think the risk of it happening, or the severity of it when it does happen, is anywhere near the risk/severity of the state doing so.

    As long as you have appropriate anti-trust laws, and adequate externality controls (pigouvian taxes, regulations, etc), there is very little reason to worry about your freedom being impinged on by corporations.

    Unfortunately for many libertarians, those types of controls can't be entrusted to the state because of their potential for abuse (which does happen all the time). For those libertarians, the problem isn't so much that they can't conceive of freedom lost due to corporations, but rather they would rather deal with that loss of freedom than give abusable power to the state.
     
  14. FormerGermanGuy

    Mar 1, 2001
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So basically they are choosing to give up their freedoms, just to a different entity.
     
  15. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, they have no clue at all.

    Like, when they took money from hard working people and gave it to corporations that libertarians decided were too big to fail.

    Or when libertarians advocate for a big federal government so corporations can have one stop lobbying access.

    Or when libertarians invite CEOs of big corporations to visit the President in the Oval Office.

    Or when libertarians cry out and defend corporate welfare.

    Or when Libertarian candidates constantly get the lion's share of corporate political donations, because corporations know that when libertarians get power, they'll get all the power.

    This line of thinking is hilarious.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. saosebastiao

    saosebastiao New Member

    May 22, 2005
    Sometimes you gotta pay a dollar to earn 10.
     
  17. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Surely you can see the difference.
     
  18. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Weren't you going to go do some research about the debt ceiling? Seriously. Off to it.
     
  19. Smiley321

    Smiley321 Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    Concord, Ca
    No, this is the Koch = evil liberal fail. For some reason, the libs have adopted the Kochs as their favorite villains. This is just a lame thread to make the case for the millionth time.

    I guess libs think that lame attacks on Koch might work better than their lame attacks on the tea partiers in general. Or libs just like lame cheap shots.
     
  20. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I <3 this thread
     
  21. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Yeah, you are right about this. During the Wisconsin debates as public unions started losing the intellectual and moral arguments it became more and more about the evil Koch brothers who didn’t even have any skin in that game. Unfortunately this is still an effective political tactic.
     
  22. GiuseppeSignori

    Jun 4, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When did that happen?
     
  23. saosebastiao

    saosebastiao New Member

    May 22, 2005
    It is a tautology.
     
  24. FormerGermanGuy

    Mar 1, 2001
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The difference is not as big as you seem to think.
     
  25. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you think a corporation would throw you in jail for possessing a plant it disfavors?

    Do you think that a corporation would keep the world's largest military?

    Do you think a corporation would send unmanned drones to kill people that it claims are bad guys?

    Do you think a corporation would throw you in jail for selling unpasteurized milk?

    Because the federal government does all that.
     

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