Liberals lie about what Bush said

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Attacking Minded, Oct 14, 2003.

  1. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    Rockefeller was caught this weekend on Fox News:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,99718,00.html

    SNOW: OK, I want to get to that. But you've laid down a number of factual predicates, and I want to examine them.

    Number one, you mentioned twice in your initial answer that the administration talked about an imminent threat. I want you to listen to what the president said in the State of the Union address in 2002 about imminent threat.

    (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

    GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words and all recriminations would come too late.

    (END VIDEO CLIP)

    SNOW: Senator, I misspoke. That was this year's State of the Union address. But the president never argued there was an imminent threat.

    ROCKEFELLER: Tony, if you listen to that as an average American person would, you and -- at least myself included, that is talking about the danger of an immediate attack. And, in fact, the intelligence committee, the one thing they did not say was that there was -- we were in danger of being attacked in this country.

    SNOW: But, Senator...

    ROCKEFELLER: They did not say that there was...

    SNOW: I'm sorry, I just -- I don't -- we've done a lot of research on this. And the president never said -- and we've been looking for it because you and a lot of your colleagues have said that he's proposed -- he talked about imminent threat. And he never did. As a matter of fact, the key argument -- was it not? -- that you can't wait for it to become an imminent threat because then it's too late.

    ROCKEFELLER: No, the argument, Tony, was based upon -- I was there, and I heard the speech very close, and he was talking about weapons of mass destruction, biological, chemical and nuclear. And that was more or less signed off on by the intelligence committee, which raises a whole other set of questions.

    And the whole problem was that there was a danger of attack. If the word imminent threat wasn't used, that was the predicate; that was the feeling that was given to the American people and to the Congress, whose vote the president clearly was trying to argue or to convince during the course of that State of the Union message.

    SNOW: All right, Senator, let me read to you a quote from another speech you attended. As a matter of fact, you gave it a year and two days ago.

    You said this: "There's been some debate over how imminent a threat Iraq poses. I do believe that Iraq poses an imminent threat." That's what you said.

    "But I also believe that after September 11th, the question is increasingly outdated. It is in the nature of these weapons and the way they are targeted against civilian populations, the documented capability and demonstrated intent may be the only warning we get. To insist on further evidence could put some of our fellow Americans at risk. Can we afford to take that chance? We cannot."


    My favorite quote from Jay is this one: "Tony, if you listen to that as an average American person would, you and -- at least myself included . . . . ."

    Ha! Jay Rockefeller, The Average American. :D
     
  2. DoctorJones24

    DoctorJones24 Member

    Aug 26, 1999
    OH
    More word games from the right worthy only of Bill Clinton. "He never used the specific word...."

    To anyone who was paying attention for the last year, there can be no arguing over whether the admin was basing their case for war on the "present" danger that Iraq posed to American security.

    The whole fiasco with the UN revlolved around the question of "Why not wait 6 months for inspections?" The pro-war side said over and over that the chance was too large that Iraq would use its massive WMD program against us in that time period. To now try to claim that Bush never used the word "imminent" is disingenous.
     
  3. Ludahai

    Ludahai New Member

    Jun 22, 2001
    Taichung, Taiwan
    Fox digs out the truth. When will someone come on here again and say that it is right wing. Well, if right wing is the truth, then bring it on.
     
  4. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
  5. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Here are some that are not even in Loney's link:

    November 3, 2002 North Dakota
    George W Bush:

    "And, not only that, he is -- would like nothing better than to hook-up with one of these shadowy terrorist networks like al Qaeda, provide some weapons and training to them, let them come and do his dirty work, and we wouldn't be able to see his fingerprints on his action.

    No, he's a threat. And that's why I went to the United Nations."

    November 3, 2002 Illinois
    George W Bush:

    "Saddam Hussein is a threat to America. He's a threat to our friends. He's a man who said he wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction, yet he has them. He's a man that not only has weapons of mass destruction, he's used them. He's used them in his neighborhood; he's used them on his own people. He can't stand America, he can't stand our friends and allies. (Audience interruption.) He is a man who would likely -- he is a man who would likely team up with al Qaeda. He could provide the arsenal for one of these shadowy terrorist networks. He would love to use somebody else to attack us, and not leave fingerprints behind."
     
  6. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    It's no coincidence that BigSoccer's bright and sharp conservatives (Bill Archer, The WakeUp Bomb, colin grabow) no longer try to defend Bush's war in Iraq. I suggest their lesser brethren follow the lead.
     
  7. Ian McCracken

    Ian McCracken Member

    May 28, 1999
    USA
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Re: Oh, it's already been broughten

    Ok, I give up. I can't find the word "imminent" in that page anywhere. Help me out.

    On the other hand, we've got 'ol Tony Snow nailing Democrat Senator Rockefeller on his use of the word "imminent" and then denying it.
     
  8. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Even Bush lies about what Bush said. The Economist sited that he's changed the transcripts of his speeches. And Bush supporters constantly lie about what Bush said, or at least have serious short-term memory problems.

    Seems we've lost track of the truth. For example, calling Jay Rockefeller a liberal simply because he supports increasing veterans' benefits. And he is at least as much a regular guy as W. Remember, W ran for president as a Washington outsider.
     
  9. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you implying that Bush changed the transcripts that FOX used in their interview with Rockefeller??? It was a video clip, not a transcript.
     
  10. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    From the interview:
    "Snow: . . . As a matter of fact, the key argument -- was it not? -- that you can't wait for it to become an imminent threat because then it's too late."

    And what he is describing is different from immiment how, now?

    As other posters have pointed out, it's all all a question of semantics. I haven't seen a single liberal columnist claim that Bush used the word "imminent" (although it's likely that there are some who may have made this claim), but the fact is that Bush presented Hussein/WMBs as an imminent threat, regardless of whether he used the word "imminent." If you don't know what "imminent" means, then that's your problem.
     
  11. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Excerpt from White House press briefing, Oct 16 2002.

    QUESTION: Ari, the President has been saying that the threat from Iraq is imminent, that we have to act now to disarm the country of its weapons of mass destruction, and that it has to allow the U.N. inspectors in, unfettered, no conditions, so forth.

    MR. FLEISCHER: Yes.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/excerpts_oct16.html

    Excerpt from White House press briefing, May 7 2003.

    QUESTION: Well, we went to war, didn't we, to find these -- because we said that these weapons were a direct and imminent threat to the United States? Isn't that true?

    MR. FLEISCHER: Absolutely.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/05/20030507-12.html
     
  12. csc7

    csc7 New Member

    Jul 3, 2002
    DC
    And this is why people that get their news from FOX News get their information wrong more often than any one else. Nice fact checking.
     
  13. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    So let me see if I have this straight.

    Fox is lying about liberals lying about Bush lying.

    I'm off to look for the little white rabbit.
     
  14. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    Well we are making progress then. We've gone from "The president lied to us to get us into the war" and on to "When the president's Press Secetary didn't argue with a reporter about the word 'imminent' then the Press Secretary lied . . . . sort of."

    Good, good.
     
  15. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    The day the White House press secretary says something that does not represent the President's views is the day he starts collecting unemployment.

    I am enjoying the desperate semantic gymnastics of you Republicans, though. It's always a pleasure to watch sheep jump through hoops.
     
  16. csc7

    csc7 New Member

    Jul 3, 2002
    DC
    Press Secretaries will quibble over a single word in a question because they realize the importance of every single word. Fleischer, a damn good press secretary, gave an unconditioned 'yes' response when asked if the president had been saying Iraq presented an 'imminent threat'. Fox, walking a linguistic tightrope, said the President never said the words 'imminent threat.' Ok, maybe that is true. However the White House's Spokesman, the person that speaks to the press for the president, clearly said that the president had been saying Iraq was an imminent threat.

    Fox lies, you swallow.

    Futher, no where in my post did I said the White House or the President lied, I accused Fox of getting their facts wrong--to be blunt, that Fox lied.

    You R's sure are getting defensive...You don't even have to be accused of lying before you start saying you weren't.
     
  17. El_Maestro

    El_Maestro Member

    Jun 5, 2002
    Planet Earth
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    When Bush supporters say that their President never used the word imminent, you clearly see they use that as a way to defend him. Why? Because Iraq was NEVER an imminent threat.

    If rightwingers themselves are disregarding the term imminent and want Bush to be as far as he can from it, that's an admission that the 'Iraq=imminent threat' theory was bogus.

    So, if the threat was never imminent, like the bushies are now saying as we see, the reason for the war was...
     
  18. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    So there wouldn't BE an imminent threat.

    Man, how many times do you guys have to run through this?

    This is like trying to argue with an anit-misogynist about race. The reasons you guys give have nothing to do with reality. Face it. You just hate the guy. It's that simple.
     
  19. Michael Russ

    Michael Russ Member

    Jun 11, 2002
    Buffalo, NY
    What's worse is you can go round and round on these semantics forever, so eventually you realize it is like bashing your head against the wall so you give up.

    Then you see in another thread, the accusation that even you have given up defending Bush's lies.
     
  20. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    Well of course President Bush never used the work "imminent". Do you really think he'd be able to pronounce that?
     
  21. Finnegan

    Finnegan Member

    Sep 5, 2001
    Portland Oregon
    *#*#*#*# IT. I am tired of different standards for liberals and conservatives. As it has been proven time and time again conservatives (especially columinsts and congress) just flat out repeat lies so many times that they are eventually taken as the truth. Just check out Franken or Conasan's new books for ample evidence of this.

    Those of us on the left however bend over backward to provide evidence. Must be all the academics in our ranks or something.

    Did Bush ever say the specific word "imminent"? I don't know nor do I care. It think from the quotes presented in this thread that it is pretty clear what he was trying to do and imply.

    He was trying to fear monger the US people into an unjust war.

    From now on I am going to repeat the phrase "Bush declared Saddam an imminent threat to the US" everyone time I can and I encourage everyone else to do so also. No amount of mewing by BS conservatives or the pimple heads on FOX is going to stop this.

    Time to take your own medicine boys.
     
  22. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's interesting that your analogy isn't about arguing with a misogynist about race. If I had come up with this analogy, that's what I would have used.

    But then, I'm against racism.

    Dr. Freud, your slip is showing.
     
  23. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    You keep famous company Finnegan.

    "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it people will eventually come to believe it." - Joseph Goebbels
     
  24. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=misogynists

    That's interesting because in North Carolina the definition of a misogynist is one who beleives the races should be allowed to mix. Hmmm. . . . . . I guess the double negative got the best of me. We'll go with your version Dave.
     
  25. Finnegan

    Finnegan Member

    Sep 5, 2001
    Portland Oregon
    Is that the best you can do - compare me to a man who was responsible for some of the most heinous acts in human history? Your pathetic. Thanks for proving my point.

    If am a NAZI than all of the following are also because I am engaging in the exact same tactics that they employ on a daily basis:

    Bush
    Rumsfield
    Ashcroft
    Cheney
    Rice
    Gingrich
    Rove
    Fleischer
    Lott
    Hastert
    Delay
    Hatch
    and All of FAUX News

    Do you realize that in trying to bully by comparing me to GOEBBELS is the exact thing I was talking about in how conservatives engage in demagogery without any need to tell the truth?

    Take your bullying elsewhere, this is one lefty who isn't going to fold like cheap lawn furniture when attacked with offensive comparisons.
     

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