Lewis to Preston (NO, REALLY)

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by BuffloSoldier, Aug 29, 2002.

  1. BuffloSoldier

    BuffloSoldier BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 31, 2000
    Northern NJ
  2. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My God, could you even try to be a little balanced. The situation was that Lewis had not played a game in two years for Tiagna and was a fringe US National team player who, despite this impediment, was fighting for a starting spot at the World Cup and desperately needed the time to win this spot and Arena desperately needed to see Lewis to make that decision. It was just a little conicendental that Tiagna all of the sudden decided he needed to play Lewis at this critical juncture in Lewis' international career after not even including him in any match day squads. It implies malice even to the most unimaginative, even if Tiagna had the right. It's a moral not a legal argument.
     
  3. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    My God could you try not to miss the point? As far as work permits are concerned, it is a legal issue. And this is precisely the reason why friendlies don't count in the 75% evaluation: sometimes the teams are entirely experimental, sometimes players aren't released by their clubs - as is their right if the games aren't played on dates that are on the international calendar - etc. So selection - or non selection - for a friendly game is a poor indicator as to whether that player is a 'regular' part of a national team and is hence discarded.

    Oh, I do think Tigana made the correct decision, despite all the bleating round here, but that one's been thrashed to death many times...
     
  4. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And where did I say that I cared about that point? I will help you, NOWHERE. I am just tired, as is my right, of your completely unbalanced description of the situation.

    Of course you do. You are entitled to your opinion, which I don't delude myself into thinking I could ever influence. If you think it is morally OK for a club coach to prevent the callup of a player trying to win a World Cup starting role when that coach had not even dressed the guy all year prior to this, that is your right.

    Actually I am not interested in "bleating" about this anymore. I just want to -- not the same as your point just in case you are confused again -- clarify the special circumstances relating to this friendly and this coach.
     
  5. WHOLMAN2

    WHOLMAN2 New Member

    Dec 4, 2000
    Lahs Angeleez
    Are you certain? It was my understanding that Jovan Kirovski's work permit was recently denied (but later approved upon appeal) as a result of failing to play in 75% of the US team's "A" matches.
    According to FIFA, "A" matches are any of the following:

    1) Friendly
    2) Continental qualifier
    3) Continental final
    4) World Cup qualifier
    5) World Cup final

    I don't claim to be correct, just informed. If I'm wrong, show me the facts.
     
  6. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    The D of E requirement relates to competitive 'A' team matches are then defines competitive as follows:

    The definition of a competitive 'A' team international match is a:

    World Cup Finals game

    World Cup Qualifying group game

    Football Association confederation tournament game, for example:

    The FIFA Confederations Cup;

    The UEFA European Championships and Qualifiers;

    The African Cup of Nations and Qualifiers;

    The Asia Nations Cup and Qualifiers;

    The CONCACAF Gold Cup;

    The CONCACAF The Copa Caribe;

    The CONMEBOL Copa America;

    The OFC Nations Cup and

    The UNCAF Nations Cup
     
  7. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Tigana's responsibility is to do what he feels is best for Fulham. Nothing more, nothing less.
     
  8. Mutineer

    Mutineer New Member

    Jul 14, 2001
    Ok, I admit this is slightly off topic. But I have a question about the 75% rule on "A" match appearances. How is it that the US have two keeps in the EPL. Is there an exemption to the 75% rule for keepers?
     
  9. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    Yes, and as such one would think he would let Lewis go to get in a few quality matches, rather than wallow in the reserves. But he didn't, which he did for some reason, but not in the best interest of 1) Eddie Lewis, or 2) Fulham. I'm guessing the reasons have something to do with Tigana's ego, which is not in the interest of Fulham or the players he's supposed to be responsible for.
     
  10. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    The time he exercised his perogative to keep him at Fulham, Lewis did play in the first team. iirc, whilst he was 'wallowing' in the reserves, Lewis did get released for the Gold Cup. Me thinks you doth whine too much.
     
  11. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    M and Tigana sittin' in a tree...

    Me thinks you're sexually attracted to Tigana. And me thinks that he had no choice but to release him for the Gold Cup. And me am sure you want to have his babies since you use a non sequitur like releasing him for the Gold Cup when you know he had no choice. Any journalists out there with Tigana's phone number? Just PM "M". He'll be delighted.
     
  12. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Re: M and Tigana sittin' in a tree...

    Your claim was that Tigana refused to release Lewis when he was "wallowing" in the reserves. His release for the Gold Cup points out the baselessness of that claim. Or did you have another game in mind? It certainly couldn't have been the last game of the season as he played for the first team that day.
     
  13. MadSirAlexxx

    MadSirAlexxx Member

    Mar 21, 2002
    Re: Re: M and Tigana sittin' in a tree...

    Personally, I felt that the reason Tigana kept and even played Eddie in that last game was in response to Bruce calling him "a jerk". The Gold Cup release was a chance for Eddie to play more games with the US than the reserves and maybe put himself in the shop window in the hope that other clubs would be interested in purchasing him. This makes Tigana's reason wholly selfish IMO.
     
  14. dcufan1984

    dcufan1984 Member

    Feb 17, 2002
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    so basically you are saying that he is devoid of human emotion, and therefor is unable to hold a grudge against eddie, bruce, us soccer, or the usa????

    just admit the possibility that he might have been a little irked by bruce's comments. and that it is conceivable that he withheld eddie from the usa camp and played him in the last game just to spite him.

    you don't have be a ************ing vulcan to see the logic here.
     
  15. PaulGascoigne

    PaulGascoigne Member+

    Feb 5, 2001
    Aotearoa/NZ
    Long story.
     
  16. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First, that's one definition of morality and you are entitled to it. Some people hope for a little wider view.

    Second, the fact that Tigana never (or rarely) even dressed Lewis prior to this critical USMNT friendly (critical in the sense of Lewis' career) raises the implication that Tigana's decision had nothing to do with Fullham's interests but was designed to harm Lewis. Who knows what is inside a person's mind, but the timing stunk and I know what I believe.

    The rest of you, don't make it easy for M to play the Americans are sheltered boobs rap by exagerating the situation.
     
  17. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am not sure what is on topic. But Friedel I think had a German passport or something, though one never knows about the validity of these rumours.

    Chris Bergin is reporting that Lewis has to appeal the denial of his work permit. Chris suggests a number of arguments, I would keep it simple and argue "JOVAN KIROVSKI."
     
  18. BuffloSoldier

    BuffloSoldier BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 31, 2000
    Northern NJ
    Brad has a British wife. Prior to that, he needed to win an appeal to play with Liverpool, then under prior WP rules, used his one move under that WP to go to Blackburn.
     
  19. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you think it was in Fulham's best interest for Tigana to treat a player and his World Cup ambitions with such contempt?
     
  20. dcc134

    dcc134 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    May 15, 2000
    Hummelstown, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Jovan has an EU wife, therefore he is not required to pass the 75% rule, I believe.
     
  21. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    It was Tigana's withholding of Lewis from the US camp that caused Arena's childish little outburst so, no, I don't admit this possibility.
     
  22. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Lewis's World Cup ambitions are secondary to his needs towards Fulham - that's Tigana's job.
     
  23. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    There's nothing particularly 'moral' about it. Football is a business like any other business and Tigana's responsibilities are to that business.
     
  24. dcc134

    dcc134 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    May 15, 2000
    Hummelstown, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Tiggy is still a f-ing jack ass, no matter what spin you try and put on it.
     
  25. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Once again that is one view of morality, that it doesn't apply to one's business dealings. Some people think that good faith is an essential part of business dealings.

    And if you can't empathize why Arena might make an outburst, childish or otherwise, when he is denied the use of a player he needed to evaluate on the eve of the World Cup when the manager had not even included this player in the matchday squads for two years, then you are as biased as everyone knows you to be. Especially given how Arena has built his tenure on accomadating club coaches.
     

Share This Page