I've really noticed this year that all "bad" calls seem to be f'in bad calls. Or a f'in joke. (I think that may be because FSW gets better reaction shots.) I would think that the F bomb crosses the line, even for professionals. But then I'm reminded of something I read once by a baseball umpire. He said you could say his call was horses***, and that was OK, but if you called him, personally, horses***, he'd eject you. Keep in mind, what I'm talking about here is NOT crowding around the referee and yelling. I'm talking about Pablo Mastroenni clearly yelling at the ref that the foul he just called was a f'in joke. Am I naive/stuck in a fake memory of the 50's to think just the word itself should warrant a caution? Or is this an echo of that anonymous memo from last fall?
I think that there are things that are said because of adrenaline and you can't help yourself, and there are things that are said for the sake of just plain being incendiary, and the latter is the one that ought to be reprimanded.
Absolutely a rediculous assertion. I have noticed for years that MLS seems to be willing to let the players wear jewelry to enhance the entertainment value but still refuses to control the foul language that the idiots on the field throw around without thinking. It would take one week to stop the cursing on national television in full view of the 10 to 20,000 people who choose to watch the league on TV every saturday. I wouldnt want my kids watching a movie with that kind of language so how can I encourage them to watch this poorly run league with players so out of control that the language cant pass a prime time television censure. Another reason not to take MLS seriously.
First of all, the notion of "bad" language is ridiculous. It's only bad because we make it so and cover our children's ears. Luckily we are more progressive nowadays and I can write damn without being censored because no one really gives a damn. Eventually it will be that way with words such as ************ and ************. That said, I really think that MLS should crack down more on cussing because it's a family event and you really should cater to the whims of your audience. If a bunch of families aren't going to come back because of the words that some players say then that's a problem! Do what you can to fix it.
The aspect of endless player complaining that irks me is the assumption that if a player doesn't complain endlessly after a call he must have agreed with the call. A "good sport" might just get on with the game whether he happened to agree or not. Announcers often say things like: well, he's not complaining so it must have been a good call. I'd personally enjoy the game more with less complaining.
Are you people kidding? Cursing doesn't take place in any league besides MLS? It doesn't happen in Europe or South America? That's F-in Bullshi*. Just because you can't tell what the players in the EPL or Bundesliga or La Liga are saying doesn't mean they aren't cursing. The fact is they are cursing, in various languages. It is seen in TV very clearly. This is a professional sport played by men, not kids or librarians. To expect players to curb their enthusiasm because junior might read your lips is ludicrous. The fact is if junior can read their lips and spot F-bombs it is already too late to whine about shielding these kids. Between the violent movies and f-bomb laced CDs from the likes of Eminem and 50 Cent it's going to be a shot of Clint Mathis cursing at a ref that's going to ruin kids? Puh-LEEEZE. This issue takes place in baseball and basketball, especially in the NBA where you can easily make out profanity on a regular basis. So how is it that this is "another reason not to take MLS seriously." Greyhound, you're a pompous ass who needs to find a new board to infest. And SuperDave you are being a little idealistic. Players cursed in the 50s, there was just no camera to catch the close-up.
So when a player gets hurt and he says "That f'in hurts" he should get a card? This kind of thing is a card in high school not for pros. There is cursing on the field in every sport, so f'in deal with it. Wasting the time of games to issue a card to an professional athelete is f'in stupid. If you think there is a lot f-bombs in the MLS try reading the lips of the players and coaches in the EPL.
Unfortunately or fortunately, this isn't the 50's anymore. Our speech patterns have certainly changed in the last 50 years. This country is also more diverse - at least the country depicted on TV. It's all George Carlin's fault. He figured out that some words set people off, so he helped us (some of us anyway) break out of our inhibitions. When I was in the Army in the 70s, a sentence wasn't complete without a sprinkling of f-bombs. I know and support that in Iowa High School soccer that use of foul and abusive language isn't tolerated. A quiet, oh f***, may or not be tolerated depending on the referee and the volume. As far as the MLS is concerned, the referees have more important issues than a few f-bombs. If they are directed personally at another player or the official, it can easily become a management issue and should be addressed. Otherwise play-on. IMHO.
Sorry, I don't accept that argument. It's akin to saying, "Well, pollution is all around us, so we're under no particular obligation to clean it up." I'm not a librarian, and I do occasionally use "colorful" language, but here's the problem: if you accept players using foul language (particularly in the youth game), then you've legitimized its use. It becomes harder to regulate the distinction between "Aw, f***," and "You f***!" It's like foul play. If, the first time you hear it, you warn against it/punish it, it tends to stay better under control. If you let it go, you get what you get. Personally, I don't like to hear kids swearing like longshoremen, so I don't put up with it.
There's really 2 issues being incorporated into this thread -- dissent and language. They can be, but aren't necessarily, intertwined. Here is the USSF position paper on Misconduct and Player Language just issued this March. It very clearly breaks down the issue of Player Language into 4 areas and it also includes some discussion of the passionate nature of the game. Personally, I think that DISSENT in general needs to be better dealt with in the MLS regardless of the language used. I don't think it's a language issue in particular though.
Looks like we shook some of the more mature audience out of the carpet. I was unaware that M+M and $50 were saying ****************** on national TV during event aimed at and influencing young viewers. NObody can use the F-word as fluently as I can. My study of that most usefull word began in the the infantry some 17 years ago. I dont, however practice my craft in inappropriate company. This isnt easy for me as my kids are now old enough to correct my less then perfect application of this principle. If the players in MLS are professionals, the will respond to direction not to curse loudly on TV just as they respond to directives not to tackle from behind....most of them anyway.
You'd think that they'd smarten up about it. I watch a lot of games with my 10 year old. Even though he's heard the language before, he doesn't need to hear his heros say it. For starters, they could tone down the mikes near the goals when a pk is awarded, especially when an ejection occurs. You know what you're going to hear before they say it, so the tv editors should too.
Dissent There's really 2 issues being incorporated into this thread -- dissent and language. They can be, but aren't necessarily, intertwined... -------------------------- Agreed, Kev. If I were a ref, which I'm not, my feeling would be "I don't care what you say but I do care how you say it. If you run up to me after a call, you'll get a warning and possibly a card. If you allow the play to restart/continue, I don't care much what you say." Players (and coaches and fans) should respect the officials regardless of whether they agree with what's called. They don't have to agree with the call but their opinions don't matter.
what a worthless thread. i cant stand when people complain about this kind of thing. do you think your kids will grow up never hearing a curse word? do you think if they do hear brian mcbride or landon donovan swear that they are doomed to a life of crime and corruption? grow up. the best you can do is bring your kids up to be polite and respectful, hearing a soccer player on tv swear is going to have no impact on this. i would be more worried about my kid picking up the defensive frailties of jeff agoos than the occasional swear word from watching tv.
When you get carded for dropping an "F-Bomb", but not for a tackle from behind, there are problems. Also, players should get a verbal warning before being carded for "profanity", unless it's directed at the ref (dissent) or another player (taunting, threatening, etc.). Just my opinion.
The differences as pointed out have to do if the cursing is directed to an individual or to themselves. I have no issue when a player makes a bad pass and say F! I do have an issue when he say F-you to another player.
As a ref, if someone says it out of frustration, I don't care. I'm like, "Hey, I talk that way, who am I to punish it?" But if it's at another person, that's a problem. Prof
Couldn't agree more. If a striker misses an open goal, looks to the sky and says "******************" you are not going to book that player. A player who is on the receiving end of a nasty foul and says "******************" as the pain hits is also not high on my hit list. Any player who says "c**t" has a bit of explaining to do though. I must admit that the biggest problem I have on a Saturday morning is the spectators. The players know you have cards and the coach knows you have a match report and wants to avoid the fines that can come from being on it. The spectators, however, believe they have a god given right to abuse officials. I spoke to a spectator last Saturday at an Under 17 match who told me that he was a spectator and so he could say what he liked. This attitude has to be changed!!! Exactly. You accept foul language and then players will start pushing the envelope and the dissent will begin. It is up to referees at all levels to be consistent and stomp out abusive language and dissent. Crowdie.
At all our youth games, the coaches are responsible for their spectators. If a referee has problems with spectators or believes that spectators are disrupting the players or the game, the are encourage to get the coaches involved to solve the problem. And coaches are told it's their responsibility. It usually works for us.
You "would" be? That means you don't have any kids, right? Until you do, shut up about this. edited by the moderator due to content
"garbage in, garbage out," says the 16 y/o HS male that is one of a select few he know that refuse to use profane language on a regular basis (while avoiding it whenever possible) i do on occaision when i'm extremely mad let something slip or if my opinion of someone has gotten so low that i use only specific words for them, but personally i think it shows poor vocabulary skills (that riles the smarties at my school)...as a very conservative baptist boy, i prefer not to hear it, but there are some things that are beyond my control...and i do'nt mind the chidlers once they get to a certain age letteing an explicit out when they screw up. at me or another player, no warning, you're gone, i tell them that before there's a kick off.
I'm sure Tom can back me up on this. Back in the 50's people did not curse the way they do today. In fact all throughout the 60's and into the 70's there was a lot less cursing than today.
get a grip and instead of telling everyone else how to act and try to impose on other people what is right or wrong why dont you just teach your kids that those are innapropriate words. if they are brought up correctly, it doesnt matter what they see or hear on tv.
ProfZodiac, I admit I can have a pretty foul mouth at times, but (for the most part) I restrain it when I'm in company that won't deal with it well, and that includes when I play (I'm in real trouble if I talk that way when I ref). My philosophy is, yeah it doesn't bug me, but it could very well bug someone else. It doesn't always need a card, but the language does need to be clamped down lest the game get personal.
Alberto, my edited comment was meant to be wittily ironic. Apparently, it was not. boofdog, you're the person (well, one of them) that's trying to make this "about the children." To me, it's disrespectful toward the referee and undermines his authority if a player yells "that's f'in crap" loudly enough that the veins on his neck are sticking out. But just let me say, as a parent, the most proper reaction to parenting advice from someone without kids is a knowing laugh. I hope that one day you're blessed with children, and the first time some non-breeder tells you what to do, you'll recall me and my wisdom. To me, it's two separate issues. First, given MLS' more family oriented audience (compared to the rest of the world, so the "they curse in England" comments are beside the point), should the league try to clean up the language. Anyone that wants to make a thread about that should do so, altho it would probably be more appropriate on the MLS forum. The second issue is whether a player yelling the f bomb at a referee about his call (not yelling in pain or anything) should be cautioned.