Let's look to the future...

The problem with any of the new strikers we have is that we don't have any natural target men to play with Robbie, so we're still in much the same position as we were today. Morrison can't throw himself around as much as is necessary. Walters, from what I hear, could be a contender, but that won't be for a year or two at least, so Richie Sadlier's retirement has robbed us of our only viable replacement to Niall Quinn.

I don't see why everybody seems to want to get rid of Gary Breen so desperately - this idea that "he tries hard but he's always prone to errors" is outdated. Breen and Carr were the only two of the back five who actually looked like they knew what they were doing today. Obviously he's not infallible, but he's wiped out most of the silly ones that used to plague him (eg Yugoslavia's goal away in the Euro 2000 qualifiers), and he hasn't done anything that merits dropping one of the most senior and vocal players on the team. Especially when O'Shea fails to take his chances as spectacularly as he did today.

I think the problems with our midfield can be summed up by the fact that I realised halfway through the match that I was surprised whenever Holland or Healy got on the ball in midfield and managed to actually do anything with it - Holland did plenty of tackling round our box, and Healy popped up on the end of moves and on the wing a few times, but very rarely, apart from Healy's run in the first half, did anyone control the game through the middle.

Thornton could play a part here...I wouldn't mind seeing Steven Reid given a shot in the middle either. The problem then, of course, is that we're left without a specialist defensive midfielder, a lá Nicky Butt - Holland is adequate, but I'm never wholly satisfied with him, and Healy seems to divide his attentions half and half between offence and defence, with the result that neither fully benefit.

Overall, we looked very lightweight today - we got muscled out of the ball on too many occasions, and no one apart from Carr and Healy seemed willing to put a real tackle in.

Miller, Thornton and Andy Reid are musts for debuts soon, and Thomas Butler should be brought back into the fold. After that, Stephen Kelly at Spurs looks like he could be next in the queue, but that might require Steve Carr to move on. John Thompson at Forest is the U-21 left back, and is a regular in their squads, but I haven't seen enough of him to know if he's of international standard - anyone able to help?

 

The return of an Eoin Hand era?

From todays dismal display it looks like we may be returning to an extended Eoin Hand period

The poorest Ireland performance in an important competitive match that I can remember , played off the park by a team that won't make it out of their group in Portugal................things are not looking good!

 

That's really trying to find a bright spot

 

Lads, I wish I had ye're optimism, but all the players you are talking about coming in are crap too...... they're journeyman jobbers at best. The only young Irish player I'm even mildly excited about right now is Miller from Celtic.

Let's face it we officially are crap right now. Against the other 2 decent teams in the group (and Russia and the Swiss were only half-way decent at best) we only managed 1 point out of 12.............. my God, that is disgraceful. Then we made heavy work of beating Albania at home, never looked like beating them away and also made heavy work of beating Georgia away.......... we offically are crap, there is no doubt about it.

The future does not look bright. Yeah we have a World Class player in Duff and a decent striker in Keane, but that means nothing. Ukraine has possibly the finest striker in the world in Shevchenko, and they are crap too.

And I think it's more than just the quality of players we have. In WC 2002 qualifying we did the biz against the minnows and played toe to toe with two of the best sides in the world. We actually played with passion. I don't know what Kerr has done to drain all the passion from the side but we have looked insipid in the last two games and completeley devoid of creativity.

Sorry lads, but I'm fairly depressed. What I saw today was one of the worst performances from an Irish team ever.

 

Well *#*#*#*#.

Here we are, sitting home for Eurocup. I didn't see today's match, but I'm glad I didn't, as according to everyone, we looked like we were in shambles.

Personally, I blame the FAI. They should have done something about McCarthy sooner, and should have given him his walking papers directly after the World Cup. We basically played our first two matches against Russia and Switzerland without a coach.

Then there was our robbing against Georgia, when we had our two fair goals called back. Absolute shite.

then to top it off, today's match.

look at our talent pool, we should have won all eight of our matches. This is disgraceful. The only thing I know right now is that Ireland needs me. And needs me bad.

I had stomach surgery on tuesday. I can resume my workouts this coming friday. I hope you lads can see me on the field in Deutschland 2006.

 

We were beat by a better team, they pressed us all over the field and gave us no space or time.

Well done Switzerland you beat us at our own game, more hustle, more desire.

 

Ireland went out with a whimper, what a dismal performance. I had so many expectations for us and all we got was a passionless display bereft of anything coherent. Time is right for a few of the 21's like Miller and Reid to come through. Thompson is not quite ready if he ever will be.

 

Relegated

Kerr has to and I am sure he will make changes but I think he may have the poorest talent pool available to an Irish manager in many many years.All the fresh talent is coming from the first division , we could become a national squad dominated by first division players.

This situation really does remind me of the John Giles , Eoin Hand days , we always had a handful of good players but the majority were journeymen.We have that type of squad available to us now.We have been relegated to the European international second division.Its been a long time since we haven't made the playoffs.
What does my head in is that we were played off the park by a team that won't even make it out of their group in Portugal

Lets hope it doesnt take too long to win promotion!!

 

Lots of friendlies to look forward to.

Now that we are out , we should be able to get some interesting teams to play us on their way to Portugal. Kerr can start with a new panel.

Mr osc. (Man. Utd. supporter, but don't hold that against me.)

 

It's a summer of cheering on the Scots (and/or Welsh)... a summer that could have been - and for some odd reason I am incredibly apathetic over the whole thing, because we didn't deserve it. My friend, always one to make light of a situation, is laughign at me because now he can focus during his Leaving Cert, whereas I was giving him a hard time over not being able to see much of Ireland in Europe. During our friendlies in the next year I say we try to phase out some of the players who don't get it done, e.g: Kinsella, Carsley, Harte, Conolly, etc and bring in younger, hungrier players, e.g: Reid (both), Miller, Barrett, etc. Don't let O'Shea play central again, at least for another 2 or 3 years, he's too young. Give Andy O'Brien a crack of the whip, give Joe Murphy a bit more time behind Given, try to get something happening up front and basically play as wide a game as possible... Duff & Reid down the wings, with Healy giving the through balls from the centre should be effective if they get some games to work off each other.

One small little thing. anybody notice our biggest weakness was a guy to stop things from happening, a commanding - mainly defensive - centre-mid, who can get forward when needed... remember these words...

WE DON'T NEED YOU ROY!!

 

I think the impact of the loss of Staunton and Quinn has had a larger impact on the team than most people think. They were two leaders who havent been replaced and especially Quinn who showed during the world Cup last year that his contribution still mattered.
So where do we go from here? I dunno, probably try to get the likes of Liam Miller, Sean Thornton and Andy Reid in and also giving a new look at the like of Andy O'Brien, Rory Delap and Graham Kavanagh. Time to dump Connolly, Harte and Kinsella and maybe Kilbane. Kilbane, though limited, seems to try his best and does well but maybe that just isnt enough.
Yesterday there was no creativity or cohesiveness in midfield and that's the main probem. Sure there are mistakes in defense but we cannot say the defense lost it as for the most part except Healy easrly and Duff late, nothing was happening in midfield.
We have 10-11 months to start to get things right before the World Cup qualifying starts.

 

Healy's Lovelife

Slash ,

".....I can see him and Healy suiting each other very well.."

what is it with you and Healy ,is it lurve? I said I'd give you your drugs back if he bossed the midfield , obviously I still have them and your not getting them back
Central mid needs a serious revamp and that revamp very much includes Healy ,who once again when up against mediocre opposition put in an English first division performance.
We need to be looking beyond Healy , no excuses , unfortunately he's not international standard.

 

The stark reality is that we were not good enough to qualify, even as top seed, from a fairly poor group. For this we can blame the managers and the players. The thing that struck me most about the Swiss game was the lack of urgency/effort/passion, and that was very surprising. It was similar to the feeling I got in Russia last year. And here's the thing that's grating at me : was the performance of the team/manager any better in the last 2 games than it was in the first 2 games of this qualifying stage? Okay, so we got 1 point, but we would have gotten that too, at home to the Swiss if McCarthy hadn't gone all out for the win. In the stands at the home Russia game I was hoping Kerr was going to try something more positive to break down their defence towards the end, as I always felt we would need the 3 points. Now here's the thing that's really getting at me, and compelling me to write this, and it's an interview I read from Kerr where he says we messed it up in the first 2 games - not mentioning the last 2 - and that he got 11 points from 18, but in the group we only got 11 out of 24! That is politican speak when they try to trick the electorate with carefully chosen stats. The facts are that comparably Kerr's team only got one more point than McCarthy's and the performances were no better either. I didn't expect a respected football man like Kerr to try and fudge that. He also went on to suggest that Matt Holland's injury was a serious factor also. Holland played okay in Basel, certainly not noticably sub-par to his previous performances. Come on Brian, we are all behind you and are optimistic about where you can take us, but don't lose sight of the fact that you managed over 2 fairly dismal performances. Results against Georgia and Albania (and you were lucky with the way fixtures came for you) are not going to keep us all happy for long! Let's not go down the excuses road.

 

I know a lot of you guys probably don't want to but can some of you do those match report thingys where you give player ratings and all that jazz? Even though Dundee is full of Irish people not one single pub showed the Ireland match. Fools - if one had of they would have absolutely jammed the place. As a result I didn't see the match but from the sounds of it, that might not have been too bad a thing.

As for the future, I am also reasonably optimistic. We have the makings of a really solid spine to our team for many years to come.

Given in goal.
O'Shea in the centre.
Miller/Healy midfield (if one fulfils their potential).
Keane up front.

Then, on top of that we have three top-class premiership performers in Carr, Finnan and Duff.

All other positions are up for grabs. From what I have read about saturday's match, the big problem was that Ireland absolutely lacked leadership and a player to force things in midfield. Its a sad fact that Keano is gone but we desperately need a new on-field leader to instill the drive and will-to-win in the players. Although Cunningham was missing I still think we need a Keane type figure in the middle to scream, shout and get people going.

 

Given in goal.


Given was partially at fault on both goals on Sat, esp the 2nd.
He is not the same player he was a couple of years ago.


O'Shea in the centre.


O' Shea had a night mare game, should have cleared on the first goal. He has looked dodgy at times for Man Utd too this year playing in the centre of defense.
I sure hope he gets it sorted. Actually plays better as a Fulllback than a Central Def in my opinion.
There has been talk of playing him at midfield, might be worth a shot considering our complete lack of options there.


Miller/Healy midfield (if one fulfils their potential).


What is it with people and Healy? He's a First division player. If he were as good as people on this board make him out to be then he'd be playing at a top club.

Miller sounds promising..... playing CHAMPIONS LEAGUE football. Now that is something to get excited about.
I'm tired of hearing "Breen/Healy etc played a blinder for Sunderland" or "Quinn scored for Wednesday"........ lads that doesn't cut it. We need players who are good enough to play at the top level, ideally fellas that can make the squad of top class team.... man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, big Euro clubs etc.... or fellas that would be "Definite" starters in most any mid-table premiership side.


Keane up front.

Then, on top of that we have three top-class premiership performers in Carr, Finnan and Duff.


Carr is not what he once was. He seems to have lost pace. His performances for both Club and Country since returning from injury are sub-standard, by his earlier standards anyways. He also seems more likely to lose the head these days. Maybe that's frustration from loss of pace.

Duff IS world class for sure.

Finnan, he's been alright for Liverpool from what I've seen of him, but hardly setting the world on fire either. He got badly burned against Charlton by Lisbie for the 3rd goal.


All other positions are up for grabs. From what I have read about saturday's match, the big problem was that Ireland absolutely lacked leadership and a player to force things in midfield. Its a sad fact that Keano is gone but we desperately need a new on-field leader to instill the drive and will-to-win in the players. Although Cunningham was missing I still think we need a Keane type figure in the middle to scream, shout and get people going. [/QUOTE]

Yes, the absence of Roy Boy was never more telling than on Saturday.

We need....
1-3 (2 would be nice) World class players, we have one in Duff.

The rest need to be for the most part good solid players that would walk onto almost any premiership side, with maybe one or two first division type, or premiership bench players making up the numbers.

Right now we are a bit too heavy on the latter category. About 5 or 6 of the team that started on Saturday were that type of player..... Connolly, Kilbane, Healy, Harte, Breen, Holland.

 

Midfield

Oh give it up Slash! Healy is not our best midfield option and Holland, despite the fact the he was far from well actually DID play better than him on Saturday. You tend to pick one of two things that Healy does in a match and use that as a basis for giving him accolades. I was actually going to say that Healy did ok, which he did, before I read you comment, but he is not up to it at this level. He had one great link up with Duff and made one great tackle, but also made a hames of the best chance we had. Holland is a better player and gives more over the course of one half than Healy does in a full game. Watch them off the ball next time, if you go to a game. Holland is constantly tracking, harrying, blocking and clean tackling whereas your dreamlover puts in a couple of decent challenges, makes a couple of decent runs and makes a couple of decent passes. Outside of that he is off the pace, clatters into opponents getting bookings and does little to up the tempo. The fallacy that you paint of him being a great passer of the ball beggers belief too. Yes he can hit a decent pass, sometimes over distance too, but he needs to make 4 bad ones first, giving away possession in the process, before he gets it right, At least Holland, and Kinsella for that matter, retain possession well, as would Kavanagh I believe. Yes we have a serious midfield problem, no we don't have a ready solution, but sorry to shatter your illusions, Matt Holland, though far from world class, is still our first option at the moment. From what I have read on here of late, most people would seem to concur with me.

 

So will be playing in the US Cup or something in the summer>? Thats were all the Euro Failures go when they have not qualified for a major championship.

All I can say is to watch what happens the season after Keane retires at Man Utd.

After losing the first two games Iwould be alright about not qualifying...McCarthy baggage etc. However if you look at the Swiss home and away and especially Russia at home...the performances were all whimper with zero passion. Thats what concerns me the most. Lots of players feeling sorry for themselves. The only answer is competition for places. Bring on the Youth ! - Maybe we just need Bertie Vogts

Closey

(This is the first day I have been able to talk about footy - still crying inside and still dont feel well enough to put SkySports News on my TV yet!)

 

I'll try, although it's all going to be much of a muchness.

Given - 5 - One of the poorest games I can remember him giving in an Ireland jersey. Fidgety and jumpy. His handling was off from the start, and I can't remember one instance where he caught a ball cleanly first time, although he did make a few decent saves. Was directly responsible for the second goal, by not either holding the ball, or pushing it out of the danger zone.

Carr - 7 - One of the better performers. A lot of the Swiss attacks came down that side (eg, the second goal and Wicky's shot off the crossbar), but a lot of that can be attributed to the lack of cover in front of him. Made some good runs and passes offensively.

Harte - 6 - Solid down the left defensively. Could perhaps have tucked in tighter for the second goal, but it wouldn't have made much difference. He made some good runs going forward, and could have gotten a shot off in the first half, but his dead ball deliveries were inconsistent and he never got a chance within range of goal.

O'Shea - 5 - Extremely nervy. Tried to control the ball instead of clearing it, which led directly to the first goal. Made several other errors, including a misplaced pass straight to Yakin (I think) soon after, which could easily have led to another. We didn't hear as much of him in the second half, which was probably a good thing.

Breen - 6.5 - The only player who looked like what was happening was pissing him off. Vocal in organising the defence, he made some important interceptions and cleaned up well for O'Shea and Carr. Spoiled it by being beaten by Chapuisat to the header which Given spilled, and by missing several chances to equalise from corners.

Duff - 6.5 - Was outplayed by Wicky who did an excellent job of shackling him. Whenever he did manage to get free he was invariably turned inside and closed down. Still managed to create one or two good opportunities, especially a cross for Keane before half time which was just overhit. Much quieter than we're used to.

Holland - 6 - Performed his usual role in front of the back four reasonably well, but he was caught ball watching and let Yakin run free for the first goal. Made some good tackles and interceptions until he was replaced, but, as I said in an earlier post, more often than not the ball ended up back with the Swiss, and he didn't have the authority or strength to impose himself on the game.

Healy - 6 - Played in spurts. He provided more energy, and an offensive presence in midfield that we aren't used to, but dragged one of our best chance well wide when Duff might have been better placed. Moved well, turning up in the box and on the wing, but the Swiss were allowed the run of midfield much too often as a consequence, and he didn't make many tackles of note.

Kilbane - 6 - A decent performance, but not enough. Tackled, harried, made a couple of good runs, but his crossing fluctuated. Linked up well with Harte.

Connolly - 6 - Played with more verve than a lot of the rest of the team, but didn't get enough shots away. Received absolutely no service throughout, and was forced to drop back to the left wing to try and create something, which he did on several occasions. Too often though, the final cross was cut out by the first defender. IMO, he didn't play as badly as a lot of people are making out, but he depends on the service he gets, and may be better employed as a replacement for Keane, rather than a partner for him.

Keane - 5.5 - Mostly anonymous, largely due to the complete abscence of any sort of service and the tight marking employed on him. Controlled the ball well whenever it did come to him, and laid it off for his teammates, but these balls were invariably crowded out. Could have had a goal before half time, but the ball ran just too far ahead of him and he could only prod it into the side netting from an extremely tight angle.


SUBS:

Morrison - 4 - Did he get a touch?

Kinsella - 5 - Did his defensive duties well, but he wasn't what we needed and by that stage, the Swiss were content to play around.

Finnan - 5 - His only notable involvement was to power a header over the bar when well placed.

 

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