Perez and I'm also sorry to say Agnelli have only one interest in the ESL, they want boatloads of money without any risk at all. I would be more sympathetic to their argument if they didn't feel like whining entitled babies who deserve permanent places in the ESL. UEFA already screwed things up when they guaranteed full placing in the group stage of the Champions League for the top leagues. This is not meritocracy at all. I'm sure this view is unpleasant to all the Juve supporters here but to me it is the reality. Because Spain have two clubs responsible for 90% of their coefficient points does not mean they should have four teams in the group stage. Same goes for Italy. Inter didn't make it out of the group stage and the other three teams all lost their first knockout tie. I don't mind have the top teams getting more spots in the CL but my proposal is only two teams automatically in the group stage and the rest have to go through qualifying rounds. Put up on the pitch or shut up.
Restructuring is coming, like it or not. The economics of world football demand it. This proposal was a halfway house towards a true Pan-Euro Super League. By scuttling this more modest proposal now, UEFA may have hastened that day's arrival. And when that happens it willl prove to turn most of the national leagues into the equivalent of the english Championship. There were similar moanings by the lower divisions when the Prem was formed, but the economic benefits to the teams in it were enormous and almost instantaneous. Clubs like Ajax need to stop moaning and try to get on the train. They have the historical nous to make the cut and if they did, could keep most of the players they develop instead of selling them off to keep going. I expect there will be 2 or more divisions eventually with some form of promotion/relegation. A sortt of hybrid system like was proposed here for a CL replacement. The big clubs have invested a ton of money, much like franchise owners here in the US and can't really survive if they are sent down. They would have to sell off quite a few star players which would devalue the new league and hurt all the clubs in it. We saw this with Serie A when Inter forced severe penalties on its rivals in the fake calciopoli which spelled the demise of Serie A as the best league in Europe. If you break up half of the best clubs in Europe, the same thing will happen Europe wide and the value of the new league will be severely impacted. I understand why traditionalists and the left out don't like this, but the economic realities aren't going away. As I said if even 6 of the biggest clubs in the wealthiest league in the world see them, UEFA is not waving them away by crushing any upstart competitor. Like it or not, COVID has accelerated the financial problems for all but the very wealthiest clubs like Chelsea, Man City and PSG, maybe ManU. All the rest, even the others in the SL, are struggling with no non-TV revenues. Without some relief, UEFA may well kill its golden goose.
I understand the points you are making but why should the ESL reward financial mismanagement. Look at the return on investment Juve has received from paying CR7 a boat load of money. Part of Juve's problem is the loans for the construction of the new stadium and obviously the lack of game day revenue covered that. The promise of a CL title never came. They continued to purchase or retain players who were just not very good. Barcelona splurge money that they don't have and now are trying to figure out how to avoid Dembele leaving on a free as he won't extend his contract. Madrid already had to be bailed out by the city 8 or so years ago when they over spent on Galacticos. Athletico Madrid have always been a poor club and they are also on the hook for a new stadium loan. If the oil money people ever lose interest in ManCity of PSG what do you think will happen there? Closed leagues reward mediocrity as our Washington Football Club (NFL) has shown over the past 20 years. Do you think Spurs or Arsenal will magically become good teams by joining up in the ESL ranks? I doubt it. I think the ESL is engaged in magical thinking that TV money will be huge for this endeavor. It won't as I've noted elsewhere. There is little interest in the US and China has already reneged on one soccer TV deal. Mediocrity will rule the day and people will just tune out. I know I sure will.
I also don't understand this line of thought that big clubs needs saving. Why? When one club is mismanaged (and most of the big clubs are), than it goes under and other takes place. People just can't on one hand treat this as business and on the other reward the mediocrity. Maybe change is coming, and something like super league will be formed one way or the other, but for crying out loud, make it a little more competitive and based on merit.
Many historically significant clubs were never meant to be businesses. In many cases their owners/shareholders never intended for them to be their primary way of generating wealth. Take for instance Agnelli, Moratti (before selling), Berlusconi (before selling) families all have very lucrative primary corporations. This is obviously not just in Italy. Roman Abramovich also alluded to this when he bought Chelsea saying that he acquired them to win trophies not to make any sort of investment return. PSG's owners also are part of a massive global media empire (BEIN). Man City's owner Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan is a member of the Abu Dhabi royal family. None of these individuals need or use these clubs for wealth generation. The soccer clubs are meant therefore for one purpose, to win and gain global notoriety. Only financial fair play prevents these clubs from spending whatever they desire or covering any financial loss using outside/personal funds. Outside of FFP, as long as their owners are committed to ensuring their club's solvency by meeting all payments, there is no threat of bankruptcy. That is why these clubs shouldn't be considered "mismanaged." If their owners want to run them as lose making clubs and are willing to meeting all financial obligations using their own personal funds, that is their right. If an ultra billionaire wants to lose a few million per year, this is not a threat to their livelihood (obviously within limits).
“Either we fix this before 2024 or all the clubs go bankrupt. There will be a mutiny of the teams as they go bankrupt, because the only ones who will survive will be state financed clubs or who have multimillionaire owners, who are willing, for their own entertainment, to lose hundreds of millions [of euros] each season.” BINGO This is nothing new and is true of any business, investment, or venture. As long as all financial obligations are met with creditors then any business can be loss making especially soccer clubs.
If the top clubs all got the same financial problems, then the transfer and wage budget will automatically have to be reduced everywhere and then why would they all go bankrupt ? Truth is, that some clubs and leagues, both high and low, have already made adjustments to secure a sustainable income. The German league is only an 18 team league unlike in Italy, England, Spain and France, so in Germany there are two teams less to share the money and also 4 games less a season, leaving more room for an expansion of the more profitable and important UEFA Champions League games. .. and bit ironically we now already have a 12 team Superliga in Europe, where most of the teams are making a profit, because this 2020-21 season the Danish Superliga was cut to 12 teams, all playing each other home and away and then with an exiting 6 team (10 games) relegation group not only fighting to escape 2 relegation spots but also for the winner getting a chance to play Europa Cup (through a play-off) and the top-6 playing each other (home and away) for the Championship and 2 possible Champions League spots and two Europa Cup spots (with the 5th team going to the Europa cup play-off at home against the winner of the relegation group), so that just about all have something important to play for to the very last round. I'll add to this that the "Danish" model not only managed to secure a much better TV-deal, because of much more tight and important top-flight games, but also were able to demand a much better TV deal for the 2nd level clubs, because they had an equal vote and with fewer top-flight teams sharing a a bigger profit, the 2nd level also became a bit more interesting and so also got a financial boost. The pace and quality of play obviously also got vastly better in the top-6 Championship round, where there are no fear of relegation, little to lose but everything to win (Champions League and Europa Cup spots).here are the highlights from last weeks top clash #1 (Midtjylland) vs. #4 (FC Copenhagen), then you can judge for yourself if it do not seem to have become more entertaining and worth watching, even if it's not a top European but only the Danish Superliga :
One thing people that hate this idea are ignoring. UEFA is a walking, talking unit-trust violation. People hated the Bosman case too, but the Rule that came out of it transformed football in Europe. If UEFA keeps up with its anti-compettive behavior, these clubs and the SL may just follow through on their law suits and blow the whole thing wide open. They already got one ruling ordering UEFA not to do anything to thwart the new league and punish any players playing in it.
The legal aspects of the ESL are very complicated and I don't think we understand all the ramifications. It is unclear what power UEFA and FIFA have but clearly the national FA's have more power. There is a story today that the Italian teams left behind are going to petition for sanctions of some kind against Juve, Inter, and Milan. It is going to depend on what the Serie A bylaws allow the FA to do. There is also going to be pressure in the EPL for some action. From my perspective, the ESL can always go ahead. It the same thing that American baseball faced with the old Federal League in 1915 and the Mexican League in the 1940s. Major League baseball put in place strict penalties for anyone who jumped. The national FAs could probably kick the ESL teams out of domestic leagues though that would obviously impact television revenues and one could expect claw backs from the TV sponsor.
The Swiss Ramble has an in depth Twitter thread on the finances of the ESL clubs that was posted last night. It's well worth looking at. https://twitter.com/SwissRamble
Here is the thing. If the FIGC and UEFA push these teams to the wall they will have no choice but to sue, sue, sue. I am not sure these organizing bodies have reflected on how seriously anti-compsttive they are and are now behaving. Even in Euro courts they will be hard pressed to prevail given their behavior here. In the US they would be slapped down pronto as monopolies.
Given that the Euro Court already said that the ESL is legal and no action can be taken against it or the clubs, any domestic league looking to do something to those teams will lose in court. Serie A can't afford to start a war with Juve, Milan and Inter. They will lose.
Well, if I remember correctly, there was only a preliminary statement from the spanish court, that UEFA and FIFA cannot block clubs to form the ESL until the final ruling, nothing else. This situation is much more complex than that.
This is not going away folks. Even though Inter "pulled out" Marotta acknowledges things must change because what we have now is not sustainable for euro footie: https://football-italia.net/marotta-super-league-act-of-desperation/
It's only unsustainable because the people managing these clubs are fools first, last and always. It takes discipline to run a football club in accordance with standard accounting practices and when the 'black swan' event happens, in this case COVID-19, a lot of clubs are not prepared. All I see out of this discussion is clubs claiming an entitlement that does not have to be won on the football pitch. The Italian league better look to getting their own house in order as it's slipping further into irrelevance. I masochistically watched a lot of Juve matches this year (what else is there to do when one is retired, cannot travel, and is cooped up at home?) and just saw a lot of mediocre football. I watched fewer Inter and Milan matches and was unimpressed. Atalanta were the only team I found interesting to watch. I hope Juve gets things sorted out so they are not so painful to watch going forward. If they start to sign a lot of 30 something players as they have over the last 4-5 years, it ain't gonna happen. Celebrate Alegri today, but I'm willing to bet a lot of you will be calling for his head a year from now.
You're a fan of the dutch team and Ajax, one could infer that you are a "purist" that believes in total football compared to the more pragmatic style of Serie A. I think the level of play is pretty high in Serie A. Max's first three years at Juve were very balanced and entertaining. I won't debate that there have been quite a bit of money wasted on aging overpaid players. The amount of money given to Ramsey, Higuain, Khedira, etc. is laughable.
Look. I understand where you are coming from as I am also an Ajax fan as I have stated many times on here. But look where Ajax WAS as recently as 1996, and where they are NOW vis a vis the other Euro powers. They WERE one of the major Euro powers at least from the early 70's through 1996, just a handful of years after the Prem was formed. Now they still dominate the Dutch league most years, but on the Euro scene they are more like Porto than a multiple Euro winner like they were before. Why is that? MONEY, that's why. Since the Prem set up happened and TV rights for it went global, you have a very significant shift in thpower leagues. Serie A was the best league in the world until Inter blew it up with the BS Calciopoli because they couldn't beat Juventus or Milan on the pitch. The value of the league declined very rapidly when our roster was broken up by the bogus forced relegation. It took us years to recover and Inter made a splash for a couple of years after they had significantly injured their 2 main rivals. But this was done at the cost of the LEAGUE. Serie A has not returned to its pre-Calciopoli standards. In its place, we had the rise of the Spanish League where huge amounts of money was spent and the Prem, which continues to spew more and more POUNDS even to the worst teams in the league. Over time, if this is not equalized, all the other Euro leagues will become more like the Dutch league, or maybe the Bundesliga other than Bayern. That is not good for Euro football unless you are a fan of the Prem. Yes a few clubs like Bayern, PSG and prolly Real will still be near the top, but even those clubs will suffer in comparison. Bayern owns the Bundie and all the other clubs sell them their best players so I think they will manage to survive. PSG is owed by a country. Real is essentially backed by the Spanish gummint. Barca gets tons from Catalyuna also and Juve of course has Exor. But that is about it of the non-Prem teams. If you are happy watching Euro comps where 3 of the 4 finalists are Prem clubs every year, then fine. I am not and I do think the value of Euro football would be much higher if all top clubs in the major Euro leagues got the kind of cash the Prem gave English clubs. These proposals will not be going away until some sort of accomodation is made . Oh...and BTW, a club like Ajax could be a major beneficiary of a new arrangement.
@juveeer - I agree 100% with your points. The EPL has been getting ridiculous TV money and each team gets almost as much as the total Ajax salary line. I don't know if this holds up going forward. China has already reneged on some TV contracts and NBC Sports has taken a bath by paying too much for the US rights. They found out that even in a pandemic year, they can't make much money through the traditional broadcasting of matches and had to move almost everything to streaming. I won't be surprised if it is all streaming next year. I wanted Financial Fair Play to work but it is clear that it did not. Even in England money is skewed towards four teams who have wealthy owners or are willing to take on lots of debt. Now that the season is over clubs are starting to sell players to balance the books. Lille wins the French league but how can they have any impact on the Champions League next year as they have to sell half of their first team to stay solvent. The keeper has already gone to Milan to replace Donnarumma and others will follow. The same thing will happen to Inter. I don't know if the ESL works for the English teams unless the TV money is very high. The EPL does not want their brand diluted but what happens if the top four teams leave (Arsenal and Spurs are rubbish and don't warrant a place in anyone's super league IMO). The German clubs are bound by the weird ownership requirements and I don't know how easy it would be to break them. Teams have over payed for players for some time now and it's showing up on the bottom line. I remain unconvinced that the ESL will get the kind of TV money that is being projected.
I read it yesterday. He hopes the ESL will bail out big clubs that are poorly run. As my sig line shows, greatness is decided on the pitch.
Saying that over and over does not make it true. Juve was not and most other non-Prem clubs were not "poorly run" prior to COVID which decimated clubs balance sheets. Prem clubs have been able to get by on their overwhelming TV deal and that is why they were the first to bail on the Super League. They really didn't need the financial clout to survive. Barca and maybe Real are exceptions as they are both in debt (Barca especially), but even they were ticking along before their huge in person income stream was cut off completely. I do agree with you that the huge increase in TV dough may not be as great as they all seem to think it will be for a Super League.