Let’s talk about The European Super League

Discussion in 'Juventus' started by IcEWoLF, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. juventino13

    juventino13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2005
    Caribbean
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Means absolutely nothing tbh, the SL is dead
     
  2. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    I wouldn't count it out yet.

    Something like it will emerge. Financially, unless things change drastically, something like it will be the only way to keep up with the Prem short of acquiring a Sheik for an owner.

    The good thing about this decision is that it bans UEFA and FIFA from punishing clubs who form one.
     
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think something will happen. Too many ambitious teams, constrained by geography, are going to look into alternatives to the current system.

    But a SL won't consist of the top 12 teams in Europe.
     
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  4. Uhm, that's not correct.
    Clubs still need UEFA permission for starting something.
    Where UEFA was found acting illegal, was they did ban undiscriminantly. Banning without proper guidelines under what conditions clubs are or are not allowed to start something is anti-competitive.
    But they still need approval of UEFA if they want to stay within FA/UEFA.
    When they don't want to stay within UEFA, they can do what they want without consent.
     
  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But is UEFA a regulator or a competition organizer? I think that's what the court is deciding.

    If a dozen clubs from around Europe decide to organize a non-UEFA affiliated competition what sanctions does UEFA have?

    For instance, can it ban players that don't compete in a UEFA affiliated domestic or continental club competition from playing for their national teams in other UEFA competitions?

    That seems anti-competitive.
     
  6. Read the verdict of the ECJ. If you need the permission of UEFA to start a competition, within the boundaries set by the ECJ, they have sanctions. Otherwise the ruling of the needed permission mean nothing.
    It was the surprise delivered by the ECJ, that it went contrary to the advice of the attorney general on that point, because that sanctioning was embedded in EU laws, but the ECJ decided these rules had no teeth. So out of the window went the sanctioning without proper guidelines.
     
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  7. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    Agreed. They have already backed off of the original plan.

    But the economics are too great to ignore at some point.
     
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  8. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    The first time I heard about the Super League was in the late 1980's when Silvio Berlusconi came up with the idea to enter his AC Milan all-star team.

    Honestly, I also believe that it will happen one day.

    Maybe not now but in 5-10 years.

    It's all about money and power and they usually win in the end...
     
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  9. Jeremy Goodwin

    Jeremy Goodwin Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Berlusconi might have been able to get it done in today's environment, but Berlusconi's not walking through that door, and the current Super League guys are a joke. It's clear that some of them have never seen a game played.

    You need someone that's both politically savvy/connected, and who loves the game to get it done on a grand scale. Either that or you need to have UEFA on your side.
     
  10. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    UEFA I'm sure will go for it especially if they get money from it.

    Of course they will agree.

    As it is, the scudetti for each nation are not as important as the Champions League and I can easily see top clubs leaving for an SL.

    It's just a matter of making the correct proposal.
     
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  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you're English the Premier League is more important than the Champions League. Unfortunately very few of the owners are English.
     
  12. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    The Prem is the biggest reason that this will happen.

    if it doesn't, then the Prem will become the Super League as it will beggar the rest of Europe.

    Juve, Real and Barca all understand this. PSG was bought off by Ceferin and Bayern face no threats at home, but are about to find out that competing Europe wide is going to require more $$$. Miilan and Inter will go along once the threat of sanctions is eliminated. Many more will too.

    Once enough big clubs figure this reality out, something will happen. Then the English clubs will have to make up their minds. That is where having a lot of foreign, eps. American owners, could prove crucial.
     
  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Premier League already is the super league.

    It also depends what you mean by European Super League.

    Does it mean an alternative to the Champions League or an elite Europe wide "domestic" league?
     
  14. The reality is that an esl has no future when those clubs can't stay in the domestic leagues.
    Those who have followed the esl from the start remember that the first incarnation of it was trumpetted with billions ready for those clubs to start their own league after leaving the domestic competitions.
    That was for those with any knowledge of matters ridiculous and it was never heared of anymore.
    So the esl came up with another version, in which they still profit from being in the domestic leagues, but skim the billions made in the CL/EL/Conf.L. away with the closed esl.
    The threat of being expulsed from the domestic leagues simply ment death to those esl clubs, as the esl itself can't help the clubs survive. had no rules in place t
    Contrary to what some believe the ECJ verdict hasnot forbidden UEFA to ban clubs.
    What UEFA has been doing and in the eyes of the ECJ was illegal was simply threatening banning the clubs, while UEFA had no rules in place to judge such proposals and clubs had no guidelines under what premisses the esl would be allowed.
     
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  15. What the esl perpetrators mean by it is the league taking away the UEFA cup competitions money from all the clubs involved and put it in the pockets of 16 clubs selected.
    That Europe wide one won't happen, as that they can start without UEFA and they already backed off from that possibility.
    So the only thing remaining is a challenge to the CL.
    I'm all in for those clubs starting their closed CL, under the condition they leave and never get back into the CL, or any UEFA cup competitions from the moment they opt for that.
    Given the UK had Brexit, the ECJ has no power over the FA, so they can sanction the epl clubs silly if they join.
     
  16. cizko

    cizko Member

    Juve
    Italy
    Jul 14, 2017
    It's a breath of fresh air reading someone who understands the matter in more depth. The truth is, super league as it is didn't win anything by those decisions. They still can't create their own league without the consent of higher bodies when still playing in domestic or UEFA competitions.

    I still don't understand what the hell Agnelli and coll. were doing at the time. The creation and whole presentation of that super league was amateurish attempt at something at best.
     
  17. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    #418 juveeer, May 29, 2024
    Last edited: May 29, 2024
    It could be one or the other....or both.

    The money is there for a true Euro wide league and also for a CL that concentrates primarily on the top teams. That is what people want to see.

    Oh, and the Prem IS closing in on being the Super League and already is $$$$ wise, but comp wise they still have a way to go as this year proved.

    If UEFA hadn't hit all those teams with threats of sanctions it may already have happened.
     
  18. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    That is what UEFA is saying.

    But.....if you look at the competition law, I think they are wrong. That would still be an abuse of monopolistic position.

    Just because UEFA write rules that allow them to behave as monopolists does not mean said rules will pass muster.
     
  19. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006

    The bolded part is true. Real, Barca and all the rest of the clubs let Agnelli take the arrows. he was dumb enough to do so.

    The rest not so much. It is not going to happen overnight but consolidation and the end of UEFA's monopoly over Euro clubs is merely a matter of time. Economics and EU law will assure that eventually.
     
  20. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #421 falvo, May 29, 2024
    Last edited: May 29, 2024
    Honestly though, the table races are kind of a joke.

    You have the top 6 leagues where the same teams win on a yearly basis.

    Germany
    Bayern Munich
    Hamburger
    Bayer Leverkusen wining for the first time ever...

    France
    PSG

    Italy
    Inter
    Milan
    Juventus
    Napoli winning once every 33 years or if another Maradona is born

    Portugal
    Benfica
    Sporting
    Porto

    Spain
    Atletico
    Real
    Barca

    EPL

    Man United
    Man City
    Liverpool
    Chelsea
    Arsenal winning 20 years ago and Leicester City with one miracle year

    Can UEFA, FIFA or whomever, really prevent teams from forming a Super League?

    Even if they do, then what?

    Ban players or countries from participating in the Euro or World Cup?

    Can they legally do that and if so, will federations and/or clubs really care?

    As it is, most top clubs hate national team tournaments so I don't think it will matter to them in the end.

    Also, both UEFA and FIFA depend and want these clubs’ top players in their all-star tournaments so I doubt they will be threatened too much in the end.
     
  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #422 Paul Berry, May 29, 2024
    Last edited: May 29, 2024
    Which people? Liverpool fans would rather play Everton than Inter Milan.

    That's the thing though. The financial benefits to the top Premier League teams wouldn't be worth the risk.

    They would be killing the cash cow.

    What's more likely to happen IMHO, is that a EU based Super League is formed and, should the teams start making an incredible amount of money, the owners of the top English clubs will feel compelled to join.

    Then of course after 40 years there will be a referendum and the English will vote to leave, wrecking themselves economically and politically in the process. Let's call it E-xit.

    It's OK they'll tell you "we have agreements with Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, American and Japanese clubs", which will never materialize, or if they do, will leave the English at a great disadvantage.

    I may be straying into politics.
     
  22. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    There is a world wide market for top Euro footy. If and when a Euro league is formed the Brit teams will have a choice to make. Get on board or watch the train leave them in the station.

    I don't think the parochial interests of Liverpool fans will make much difference to American owners who can count $$$$. And they all can count $$$$.
     
  23. Jeremy Goodwin

    Jeremy Goodwin Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder if teams really want to be an also ran in a bigger pond though.

    Just because you can't be relegated doesn't mean you can't be total crap year in and year out. Man U and Chelsea aren't going to be more competitive when the weakest team on their schedule is Dortmund or Ajax.

    A super league at this point will still have five teams at the top for the foreseeable future.
     
  24. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #425 falvo, May 30, 2024
    Last edited: May 30, 2024
    If those teams become or decide to be complacent on a yearly basis, I’m sure they won't last that long in an alleged SL.

    Like in the NFL, NBA, MLS, MLB, NHL, you can also go worst to first from one year to the next.

    Many times, I've seen teams go from absolutely crap to being Super Bowl or World Series champs in a matter of only 12 months.

    You can’t do that in Europe or anywhere for that matter.

    Anywhere else in the world, Messi’s Inter Miami will have been relegated to the USL in November 2023 and playing in the second division right now but instead are leading the league and everyone is talking about them.

    Only crap teams who can’t pay their bills or players are really the ones who get demoted in the end.

    Therefore, this old relegation promotion mentality is so outdated it’s not even funny.

    I mean the games are exciting at the end of the season but that means nothing if you get relegated, have to sell off all your players and continue to become worse in successive seasons.

    Also, no one watches or cares about cellar dwellars with maybe the exception of the local fans.
     
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