Let’s talk about The European Super League

Discussion in 'Juventus' started by IcEWoLF, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. March 14th Madrid Court proceeds with the esl case with the ECJ ruling on the desk.
     
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  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe they should rebrand it "The European Better than Average League" or simply "Major League Futbol".
     
  3. #355 feyenoordsoccerfan, Feb 23, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2024
    https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.c...super-league-that-never-saw-the-light-of-day/
    Whilst Paris Saint-Germain were – and continue to be – an ardent opponent to the A22 Super League plans, which first saw the light of day in 2021, L’Équipe have revealed that the French club had worked on their own Super League.

    Codenamed Bohr, former Juventus president Andrea Agnelli first evoked the plans for the creation of a Super League. The Italian revealed that he travelled to meet PSG president Nasser Al-Khelaïfi in Paris back in 2020, at the height of the Covid pandemic in order to discuss plans for an alternative competition to the UEFA Champions League – a competition that in the eyes of the two executives, did not supply sufficient revenue for clubs to survive.

    B-teams to compete in domestic competition
    L’Équipe
    have not only consulted a comprehensive ~30-page document on the Bohr plans, but Al-Khelaifi’s entourage have also confirmed the existence of the plans. The plans would have seen 24 clubs competing within six groups. Each team would compete in a minimum of 32 games per season, with a total of 413 games overall in the competition.

    Such a commitment would have made it impossible for clubs to compete in their domestic leagues, and a line in page 10 of the Bohr document stipulated that teams would have to leave their domestic separate entirely from their domestic leagues in order to maximise revenue. L’Équipe, however, understands that clubs would have instead allowed their B-teams to compete in the domestic league, rather than leave entirely, in fear of inciting considerable backlash.

    Why did PSG pull out of Super League plans?
    Whilst the A22 Super League plans are still alive, the Bohr plans are dead in the water. Due to Al-Khelaifi’s and Agnelli’s disparate stance on the plans for the creation of the Super League, the two are no longer close, and PSG, alongside Bayern Munich and UEFA, are the most vocal in their opposition to the plans.

    Al-Khelaifi has since become the president of the European Clubs Association (ECA), replacing Agnelli, but L’Équipe’s revelations demonstrate that at the outset, PSG were not opposed to a new, closed-format Super League. So why did they oppose it? Some sources evoke a lack of financial incentive to do so, citing insufficient revenue from the prospective plans. Whilst PSG are one of the most ardent opponents of a Super League today, that has not always been the case
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    13879
     
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  4. cizko

    cizko Member

    Juve
    Italy
    Jul 14, 2017
    You will have a superleague, you will have a superleague, everybody get's to have a superleague!
     
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  5. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    One will come eventually. The Clubs are leaving too much cash on the table not to do so, esp. if the Spanish court case goes the way it should go.

    UEFA is a walking, talking antitrust violation and is anti-competitive to the nth degree. They have abused their power and still are abusing it.
     
  6. cizko

    cizko Member

    Juve
    Italy
    Jul 14, 2017
    It's not that simple I'm afraid.
     
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  7. This is the kind of American imbecils who think you can plunk an American concept from one single country onto an area consisting of 50+ independent markets.
    https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/european-soccer-sixth-street-alan-waxman-change-competitiveness/
    upload_2024-2-26_23-11-28.png
    Well, it were the yanks, who in futile efforts came up with stupid ideas and concepts in the US football leagues between 1980-1994 before the mls to make things more entertaining etc.
    Those leagues and those "improvements" went down the drains.
    upload_2024-2-26_23-15-49.png

    Stadiums are full, at least in the Netherlands, so what is he rambling about.
     
  8. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    Many of the big Euro clubs agree with those "idiot" Americans.
     
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  9. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1980 and 1994? The US didn't have a full-time national league between 1984 and 1996.

    Americans were the first to implement substitutions, multiple substitutions, red cards for denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity, names on players shirts, numbers on players shorts, and the back pass rule.

    The red card for DOGSO and 3 points for a win were pioneered by Jimmy Hill on the FA rules committee after he'd spent time at Detroit Express in the NASL. The English FA also considered 35 yard offside lines. The golden goal, which FIFA tried out in the 90s, was also used in NASL.

    American soccer fans of the 1970s weren't the sophisticated fans of today who get to watch a million different leagues on TV or computer. The strange rules were an attempt to make the game seem familiar. A lot of the rules had disappeared by the early 1980s.

    MLS fans were a different generation and Americanized rules didn't last.

    One thing MLS has done so much better than anywhere else is implement VAR.
     
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  10. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, reading that brief article, there's nothing really controversial in it. He's stating things that are abundantly true. The younger generation is all about engagement because they have so many things to engage in. MLB was hard pressed to change with the times and look at how their numbers dropped, the average age of fans rose significantly and youth baseball suffered numbers wise. Now they're trying to change.

    All sports are facing this obstacle.
     
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  11. Can't speak for Italy or Spain, but over here stadiums are full and there's no shortage of new young fans.
    Changes suggested by those pushing for esl were among others shorter matches and less players on the pitch. For that last suggestion they pointed at the success in Spain of the Kings Lague with 7 vs 7 matches.
    I would say, nobody stops you from starting an enhanced football league with all the improvements you want to throw at it. Beauty of it you don't have to deal with UEFA, as it's not football.
     
  12. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    How so? What's different about VAR in MLS than elsewhere. I occasionally watch MLS and cannot think of a difference.
     
  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The speed decisions are made. "Clear and obvious" being the mantra.*
    The ref in the middle always having the final say.
    No freaking lines.

    *This weekend was a bit different because of the referee strike and the VARs covering multiple matches.

    If you need to spend 5 minutes super-imposing lines on the pitch then it's not "clear and obvious".
     
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  14. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are teams in the Eredivisie that have a stadium capacity of 4,500, 4,501, 10,400, 12,500 and 14,000. Those are just five stadiums I looked up quick.

    Go Ahead Eagles vs PEC Zwolle had an attendance of 9,469 a couple weeks ago. Their stadium holds 10,400. Even a small ground like that falls almost 1000 short. Even Ajax and PSV's last home games didn't sell out. Italy is Italy, some teams sell out, others you're lucky to have half capacity, same with Spain.

    The article doesn't mention anything about the ESL though, so I'm not sure we can reference that league. Still, he makes some valid points.
     
  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Please provide a link.
     
  16. The Go Ahead vs PEC Zwolle you mention had an away fan boycott, plus there's always a difference between people who bought tickets (season tickets holders) and those who despite having those tickets don't show up.
    There's a waiting list for most clubs for season tickets.
     
  17. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When your grounds are 4,500 or even 4,501 it shouldn't be hard to sell out a game if you're a team in the top division on the Netherlands.
     
  18. You can't sell tickets for seats that have been sold, the season tickets.
    You mix up people shown up and sold tickets.
    As I posted season ticket holders don't show up at every match. For security the actual people in the stadium are counted and that number will always be lower than the tickets sold.
     
  19. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're totally missing the point. There are top flight teams with stadiums that only hold 4,500 people, or 4,501 for another stadium. They should be selling out every game if they're a top flight team and they have a stadium that small.
     
  20. Dunno why you're so fixated on Eredivisie clubs, but the one missing the point is you.
    I explicitly posted the stadiums are sold out, but NOT EVERYBODY with a (season) ticket shows up.
    What's so hard to understand about that?
    You're trying to bring down the fact that season after season the number of fans in the stadiums is growing, in contrast to the claim/reason for starting an esl that football is losing interest.
    Nitpicking about the number of people actually showing up and after being explained keeping on about it, ignoring that, isnot a strong stance.
    It's quite simple, waiting lists for getting season tickets are growing......yeah, interest is dwindling.....right.
     
  21. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    It is going to happen. It makes far too much sense financially and none of the big clubs like UEFA.

    If the Spanish Court rules the way it should and follow the law, then it will be hard to stop this from happening.

    National associations that try to stop clubs will also be violating anti-competition laws as well. if they keep obstructing, the Clubs could end up leaving the national leagues altogether and that would be a financial disaster for said leagues.

    Now this is more of a replacement for the CL, not a replacement for the national leagues. But if they keep getting pushed around by the leagues, that could change.
     
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  22. The conflict with UEFA that went to court was exactly the fact that UEFA threatened to throw the clubs out of the leagues, while the clubs wanted to play their own "CL" aka esl, while staying in the leagues, because it financially wasnot possible to do it without revenues FROM the leagues.
    So what you're posting makes no sense, as the clubs want to stay in, not go out.
     

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