Lesson Reinforced About Protecting the Centerbacks

JK did not want to start out with the 442. So, he threw Bradley back there to handle the ball (due to our poor CB's)and put Edu further up to pressure. Both roles that they can handle. But Bradley isn't a 6 and Edu isn't an 8 and they aren't really that flexible as well.

Still it could have worked. I don't think JK has lost his ideal of a organized midfield either. He probably just did not expect Onyewu to play that bad or for Jones to mark that poorly.

It's just one game and it was hail mary strategy to begin with.

 

Was it poor marking, or poor communication? It looked like Jones and Onyewu thought they were marking the same guy on that corner. Then Jones realized last second what happened but it was too late.

I don't think any of us will ever know who was supposed to mark who.

 

True. I guess I'll call it a team error. Still, JK definitely wasn't expecting on the team to concede weakly on a corner.

 

I dont think the Italy game should be held up as any kind of model. Italy had a ton of shots, the majority of the possession, frankly we werent that great in that game. We won, but it wasnt that great a performance.

 

We gave up less chances against Italy and created less. We created more tonight and gave up more. It wasn't a coincidence.

Frankly I'm of the persuasion that you give great teams less chances and hope you grab one.

 

We also beat Italy without their best player. Mario Balotelli.

 

In the 1st half we were apparently bound and determined not to play a single long ball out of the back. Some times you have to. Even Jogo Bonito Brasil hit a few clearances out of the back, when under pressure. I like the approach, but we over did it in the 1st half. And, it allowed Brasil to throw everyone forward to pressure. Playing against most any time that knew that we were going to play every single ball on the ground, nothing over the top would be difficult. Against Brazil ......

Also, if we're going to play that way against a Brazil, all of the back line needs to be able to hold the ball like a MF and pass like a MF. Because they'll be required to. It was just a bad bad situation for Boca & Gooch to be in. They will never look as bad as they did in the 1st half of this match (b/c, against a team of the quality of Brazil, I can't believe we'll insist that every.single.ball. out of the back be on the ground. Well learn from this. Surely.

I'm not ready to send Gooch & Boca out to pasture (and, to me, Boca was as bad as Gooch - the PK came after 2 failed Boca passes in the back). They are good enough on the ball unless they're being asked to display international MF skill against Brazil under heavy pressure. (though, yes, Gooch blew it on Pato's goal). And, they had 2 of our better goal scoring chances.

Maybe in a match like this we'd have been better off w/ Ream & Cameron at CB, who knows?

But, to me, Gooch & Boca were put in a situation that highlighted their weaknesses, possibly like they never will be again.

(Edit: I reposted this from the thread that I started. It's the same topic, so if the Mods could shut down that thread, that would be good. I tried to delete that OP, but for some reason I couldn't)

 

Bradley was actually in position to make a few plays... he just didn't.

Jürgen should have probably played a pseudo-pulley system where Edu plays deeper on defense but goes up further on offense and Mikey distributes the ball deep.

A bigger problem was that there were no outlets for the backline. Mano figured the US out - something that Levein didn't or couldn't be bothered with - press high and Brazil's pressure would be very hard to break through with three (by and large) defensive mids on the pitch for the US.

That's the shortcoming of the lineup as trotted out for the second consecutive game. It may not have mattered against Guatemala but it mattered against Brazil.

Mano ain't exactly chopped liver. Brazil, with all its technical excellence, has always been in the forefront of tactical innovations too - whether it was with 4-2-4, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, the offset Diamond, etc. - and Menezes has been regularly rated among their top domestic coaches.

And tonight you all saw why. He saw all the weak spots and exploited them as he saw fit.

 

I don't think it was the lesson that needed to be learned. Everyone, including JK knew that. The question was and still is who is best to do that.

Offensively, Bradley is currently better than Edu in both the 6 and the 8. At the 6, Bradley helps the backs transition better. As an 8, he creates and doesn't disrupt the offense the way Edu does. JK went with a safer approach of having Bradley further back with the idea that would press but get most of their attacks on the counter. So Edu would be best used further up to press and Bradly back to start the counter.

Two problems happened. 1) Brazil did a great job of taking away the counters, particularly LD. They pressed the back line early and then fell back. 2) The US gave up two bad goals. Brazil only got one good goal. If that stayed true, then this game is much different and the tactics look great. If US held Brazil to 1 goal in the half and was pressuring them the way we could also- Brazil would have pressed more and more counters would have opened up.

I think the biggest tactical blunder was starting Gooch and Boc together. Gooch looked pretty bad, but that pairing is only good in BB defense where the US packs back and defends mostly aerial attacks. With JK they need at least one faster back with good footskills and passing ability.

Overall the game was a bit unfortunate. The US is obviously not up to Brazil quite yet, but they aren't as far behind as that score showed.

 

Agree. I don't think we were playing "tournament ball" last night- playing to get points and protect a good group finish. I think we were playing a measuring stick game. Perhaps not and everything was just f-ed up, but I don't think so. If we play Brazil in 2014 in group play, we won't use these tactics or formation.

 

Yup. And hopefully if we are in a meaningful game looking for a result, Klinsmann takes this tried and true approach. Running and gunning with Brasil is a recipe for disaster for just about any team. We actually did better than would be expected considering that and could have looked fairly respectable had we finished a couple more chances.

 

1. What do you mean by "chase too much"?
2. What you're describing is soak it up, absorb the pressure. Bunker Bob basically. Counter attack soccer. Is that the way? Is the lesson we're trying to be taught how to play forward and dictate the game?

 

Until we are the best in the world, we will need to have a game plan entitled "Cynical, Italian-style soccer". That's what it takes to get results sometimes.

Last night, the result didn't matter so (I assume) we didn't play that way. If we have Brazil in our group in 2014, I suspect (and hope) we play a very cynical game against them. Context matters.

 

My take was that there were chasing the game and Bradley was needed to create chances. He was also needed to stabilize the back and their ability to possess and counter. With Edu being useless in the attack but not given Dmid duties, Bradley was pushed more and more to do both. That was what created so many chances. I don't think it was a discipline problem with Bradley as he has shown with his club team to have that discipline as its a personnel issue. The currently needs bradley playing both a 6 and an 8 against teams like Brazil and playing this style. One or the other gets weakened. But there don't seem to be suitable replacements. (maybe jones)

Edu as a dmid has shown a weakness in possession that limits count attacks. He slows down the attack and loses the ball due to technical defincies. As an 8, his technical deficines are magnfied and he messes up possession and attack sequences. That is not to say he doesn't have his strengths, but those are weaknesses that Bradly can fill. He just can't do both at the same time. When JK expected a close game, I think he bet on Bradley starting the counter and Edu serving to pressure higher up. As we got behind early, we needed Bradley pushed up further and we needed some help in the back to start counters and build from the back. It was a problem. I wonder why JK hasn't tried Jones as a dmid- I wonder if he has problems staying disciplined in that role?

Beckerman has the skillset and mind to play dmid, but is limited athletially. We could really use someone to transplant Edu. Torres, Holden, Feilhaber,- I don't know. It would be better if we had someone who could allow Bradley to get forward but we have our three best alternate dmids on the roster and none seem capable.

 

I agree, but do you trust Edu as a 6 to help build out of the back and maitaing possession under the pressure they were in? If not and if Bradley is needed in the attack- what is the answer?

 

In general, I don't think it was a bad thing to try, but two things happened that exposed the CBs more than ever in the JK era:
1. Edu had a bad game offensively, so he became less of a passing option as guys trusted him less. This led to #2. Also, it seemed like the midfield spacing vastly improved when he left the game (this may have been more due to Brazil pressuring less, but i can't remember).
2. I thought Bradley reverted back to his ways of trying to cover too much ground. He ended up everywhere. Defensively, there were times where he wanted to apply ball pressure, getting pulled out of the middle, while a runner ran free right in front of our CBs. I love that he's taking the responsibility, but I think he needs to trust his teammates a bit more in order to keep better team shape.

 

I get the impression that JK sees Boca and Gooch as our most accomplished and experienced CBs (like everyone else), and therefore, for the time being, they are our starting pair.

They are not well suited to passing out of the back. They're not especially good with the ball at their feet. I expected plenty of mistakes given the pressure they were going to be under facing Brazil. What I believe is a benefit of forcing these two to play Klinsman's way versus Brazil, is that it will slow the game down for them when they play Klinsman's game against our true opponents in qualifying.

 

Bob... finally posting in the Bigsoccer forums.

I kid, I kid... but its nice for us to actually try this in a game against a good team. It helps us learn to get better at it. Any time we can get better at different types of styles, its a good thing in my opinion.

 

I have to disagree with this last bit. We are far behind them. The first half we saw what they can do when they want to, which is utterly dominate us. Sure we played better in the second half but how much was that us picking up our game and the Brazilians relaxing with a 2 goal lead? We have a lot of improving to do in order to get inside the top 15-20 teams in the world. But we are improving which is good news, but it's going to be a long process. Remember JK is trying to implement a new style of play on players who have mostly never played it consistently in their careers. As some of the U23, U20, U17 and U15 guys get older and play more within this system, that's when I see the US really making bigger strides in the international game.