Lekker Strand und lekker Meisje, lekker Vakantie: Euro 2017 [R]

Discussion in 'Germany Mädels: NT and Frauen-Bundesliga' started by White/Blue_since1860, Aug 24, 2016.

?

9th Euro win?

  1. Yes!

  2. Si!

  3. Oui!

  4. Ja!

  5. SCHLAAAAAAND!!!

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    But this hasn't been true since the 90's/early 2000's. USA, like Sweden, Norway, Brazil etc.. have always had higher levels of athleticism across their teams, but the old gap in wnt's general fitness at tournaments narrowed and disappeared a long time ago.

    Personally, I think any possible concerns over German players fitness has mainly arisen thanks to a tactically inept coach forcing the wnt to use a unfamiliar style..:whistling:, knowing building teams around 1v1 duels where running fast in straight lines wins the day, isn't the same as using combination play requiring a lot of intelligent movement all around the field; and as long as Germany continued doing things around 1v1 duels, they'd always appear slow/tired compared to various rivals, who've always been better than them in that particular style of football.
    Outside of his random west vs east rants, Bernd Schröder was actually loudest in highlighting the strained relationship that had grown between the leagues various club coaches, and the leaders of the wnt; typically speaking about the growing frustration club coaches had for the wnt, always undermining the clubs opinion on players fitness, as if the DFB created the wnt to be another US/Canada year round club team, providing central contracts, or constantly improving pathways for professionalism...:rolleyes:

    I mean besides ignoring various requests from players talking about wanting/needing rests, Neid would also call up fringe players and make them do mid and post season fitness tests, as if a full season of club football hadn't provided the necessary platform to successfully perform on the elite stages of the international scene lol.
     
  2. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I disagree. When you know how football is viewed in NA, basically interval runs with occasionally kicking a ball, when you see how a tactically, technically superior German teams loses in 2015 a war of nutrition, when you see Leupolz getting checked around on the field - I think this is still an issue. Not much a difference on average between NTs but if you're Krahn or some Essen player I highly doubt the training intensity is on one level with NA teams. I doubt it.
    I dont know about this but if someone with a couldnt care less about getting better attitude and training methods of 30 years ago as Silvia Neid does this then something must have happened in the past where players werent fit for the task and she kept it
     
  3. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I think your confusing nations having clearly superior pools of potential elite level female athletes, versus the reality of female exposure to superior training methods and facilities aka professionalism...:unsure:

    Yes, I understand exactly what you mean when you talk about Germany recently losing a war of nutrition, attempting to go head to head vs the USwnt in a battle of kick run football, but in the brief time I've been paying attention to women's football, I've never seen any German wnt with the same or superior levels of pure athleticism,
    constantly witnessed with rivals like Sweden, Norway, USA, or Brazil.

    And yes, the level of professionalism in the Bundesliga isn't where it could be, considering the numbers of male backed clubs it has right now either; but compared to Germany's first WWC wining side needing the core of it's team to be in full time debt to gaining access to US professionalism, do you honestly believe the rest of the globe hasn't used any of their own footballing infrastructure to bridge advantages old pro leagues within NA used to have..?
     
  4. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    In the past Germany played very effective high press/counter game, possessing a bulldozer goal machine like Prinz in attack, with a whole host of some of the best AM/CM the female game has ever seen playing behind her, all looking to provide the kind of creative service somebody like Popp could only dream about right now.

    The system those players used so successfully also faded with their departures though, leaving Neid with a new collection of players she didn't or couldn't utilize outside of the context of being fitter and stronger, which of course only lead to more injuries, growing distrust between clubs and the DFB, and more chaotic performances on the field of play.

    So yeah general fitness is still a real issue for all teams, but moving away from what you do best, trying and beat opponents at their own game, for me is why much of German wnt's performances have looked so labored in recent times facing the nations known for their athleticism and physical attributes.
     
  5. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    2:0 up - after 20 min - new system 4-4-2 Raute - cant remember we ever did this. Goeßling as pivot and Dallmann as playmaker
     
  6. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Why giving the athleticism aspect away right away? Germany has a huge talent pool too. Youd think you could find out of the 300k girls the ones more like Simone to run more and quicker. The girls are about to become full pros so you could expect someone earning a shit load of money at Bayern or Wob to do a little more training.
    I dont want to take anything away from whats been done up until now. I want them do it faster, stronger, better
     
  7. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I'll need to wait for the full match to be posted on YT, but it looked like a 4-3-1-2 in the first half, with Goeßling sitting in front of the CB's, and Dallmann #10 behind the two forwards.
     
  8. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Yeah, watch it, the 2nd half was complete crap though. And Steffi -contrary to whitewash Silv- already smacktalking the team for the shit they pulled in the 2nd half hahaha :D
     
  9. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Look at the youth teams... it's all the same things at that level too, with certain nations clearly having a naturally more athletic build to their girls. So shouldn't that tell you it's more than German girls simply needing to lift heavier weights...?
    True, over time possessing improved technical ability and the same metal toughness to win, a more athletic collection of German players within a superior tactical approach would be a tough side for any team to play against; but until PED's start being prescribed by the DFB, I'm not seeing how we get a change in an entire nations attitude towards increasing food consumption, and supercharging central European views towards supporting elite level female sports...:unsure:

    Not having anything like TitleIX in effect, the highly developed and proven pathways of European male football are slowly beginning to open their doors to women though, so a few more decades of this steady development, you may get your wish of a German wnt being filled with players faster, stronger, better than ever before, but also at the drawback of everybody else with the same strong football infrastructures being faster, stronger, better, lol.
     
  10. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    LOL.. I think that's what you get for starting players you really didn't need to see...:whistling:, but it's good to hear that the wnt head coach wanted to speak with some honesty for a change.

    Remember my 6 players part of the Olympics who'll never be part of another national team during a major event in the post Neid era...? Along with Behringer - Krahn - Bartusiak, I had Kerschowski - Henning - Peter, and guess who all started today lol.

    Plus seeing the starting line up/formation, I also think Mittag may have a tough task in staying part of Jones plans in the future too; but seeing how the defense has been a mess for years, I can only imagine most of Jones post match annoyance was aimed at all the annoyingly bad habits Silvia Neid's time had left for her to fix lol.
     
  11. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  12. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    First Half... It's seems the senior German wnt finally have coaches at it's helm again, prepared to take the time necessary to develop a team around faster combination plays, utilizing improved positioning and movement, in order to remain compact in the transitions between defensive and offensive scenarios in the game...:thumbsup:

    For the first time in a long time, the spaces between the defense - mid-field - attacking players weren't huge, which enabled Germany to constantly open up a Russian side content to sit very deep, incorrectly believing this was a standard Neid built Germany, incapable of creating chances vs opponents using the all to familiar bunker - counter route to success.

    Using a 4-3-1-2 formation, you could actually see Germany finally using a progressive clearly defined pattern of play too, where the defense got help from the pivot to become a back 3 whenever playing out from the back, as the 3 player mid-field often became a 5, with the teams #10 and fullbacks taking up positions to aid the two CM's, to create more short passing sequences hoping to draw Russian defenders out of position.

    Of course, for various reason this didn't run as smoothly as hoped in the first half though, with 3 of the four defenders being generally poor (like that wasn't the big issue before the game...:rolleyes:), with Mittag clearly struggling with the concept of quick/sharp one touch passing; but I still saw enough of this with a scratch B team, to know it can and will get a whole lot better with in time.
     
  13. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I wish there was a sign button to your last post cause Id like to sign since it thats exactly what I saw too. And that the B squad could do it for 45 minutes is telling its own story. That the 2nd half wasnt as good is a natural thing I guess. And -generally speaking- Im not a big fan of the raute and never have been. But it is at least a sign we're moving in the right direction
     
  14. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Second Half... an excellent Hendrich goes back to CB, with Mittag taking up the #10 role, so Petermann can play up front with Huth. But the biggest change here was Russia realizing their bunker was only going to see Germany carve them apart, intelligently deciding to push their defense closer to the half way line, in hopes of them being able to apply more pressure to German players before they reach mid-field.

    I still can't understand the choice to change the #10 in the second half, as it completely destroyed the flow/cohesiveness of the German team, with the very good performances from Faißt - Dallmann - Hendrich managing to cover the cracks that appeared with the departure of the teams DM pivot from the game.

    Petermann - Huth needed to be seen with a legit #10 behind them, but the 4th goal scored by Petermann showcased a lot of the good things Jones has already brought to the team, where the entire move from start to finish demonstrated the speed, skill, movement, not capable in Neid's direct and rigid 4-4-2.

    So I understand why Jones was unhappy with the second half performance, but I genuinely believe much of that was down to her key changes to the team, and her players not being 100% comfortable with in game adaptations that would have seen them playing longer balls to exploit Russia's high line, instead of sticking to the game plan of quick sharp short passing sequences to progress up the field.
     
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  15. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Winners...
    Hendrich
    was excellent, and excellent playing in two key positions over the 90 mins too. I've always felt we'd see the best of Hendrich once Neid left and she was given opportunities to play centrally, but this was surely her break out performance for the senior team, and hopefully re-starts her career as a first choice option in future.

    Dallmann
    looked like she belonged at this level, showcasing glimpses of awareness and individual skill that can only bode well for her full potential one day being witnessed in a senior team jersey. So I can only think Jones knowing she has the likes of Marozsan - Däbritz - Magull - Simic still to look at, moved her out of the #10 position simply wanting to see how she performed as a CM in the second half.

    Faißt
    Didn't really create much playing down the same side as a woefully bad Kerschowski, or a confused Blässe, but showcased enough over the 90 mins to suggest Germany finally has a genuine mid-field dilema on the horizon with Doorsoun - Leupolz - Laudehr - Dallmann - Hendrich - Kemme - Marozsan - Däbritz - Magull - Simic etc... all looking to break in or come back to this team...:geek:
     
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  16. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #91 Batfink, Sep 17, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
    Losers...
    Mittag...:speechless:
    I know she struggles in teams where she's forced to play with a partner, but wow... her general play was terrible, and often appeared levels below the things produced by Petermann - Huth - Dallmann. Still possessing quality to execute the toughest skills in football though, there's a place for her in Jones Euro's squad, but she's going to have to really earn it based on that performance.

    Henning
    Is finished. After PSG basically saying her playing career was over, it was always a big ask for her to come back to her old peak level, but to me her fitness looked really poor, with her general play levels below whats required to play for an elite side like Germany.

    Peter
    Can still be used as a defensive FB, but as we've known for some time now she really isn't an elite CB, and nowhere near the best CB option in her nation right now either, still not even able to gain and hold a CB role for her club team.

    Kerschowski
    At LB...:confused: For a player already struggling to justify a role with the national team as an attacking option, besides clearly being a strong athlete, Jones move away from using wingers has surely sealed her fate.

    Demann
    Looked lost replacing Goeßling in the teams DM role, and given the excellent performance of Hendrich in CM and CB positions, knowing other options like Cramer and Schöne are still to come into the squad, she'll need to up her game, or make it clear she wants a defined role as a CB in future.
     
  17. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I dont think you tell all too much from these two games about the individual players. The only thing we can take away from this is what you mentioned about how it is suddenly possible to have quick combination play. And the 2nd is Dallmann is a superb Maro substitute and femal Icke Hässler play-a-like. End of the story. Petermann is a nice CF of old knowing how to kick the ball over the line. If she has the quality for international class is doubtful. So that all we can take away from this game.
     
  18. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Yeah, the fact a German B team just took 30 mins to brush aside Russia (away from home), probably suggests these games aren't going to be the true tests to assess players futures within this team lol; but all the in game defensive changes from Jones surely suggests Henning - Peter - Kerschowski are already in their final days as first team options, no...?

    And seeing how quick the new regime was to implement a system of play where the number #10 was critical towards directing an effective attack, it will be interesting to see what happens when Marozsan - Magull - Daibritz - Dallmann - Kayikci are all competing for the same or similar roles...:cautious:
    I think she's Germany's best forward with her back to goal, and works pretty well (better than I expected) within movement based teams favoring quick 1 and 2 touch football, just still mainly struggling with being clinical/finishing when she has time to think.

    In her favor though she's still got plenty time to learn, currently playing very well for a Freiburg side using a highly flexible 4-3-1-2 formation.. this a side also filled with various present and future international level players ready to make names for themselves; so there's no excuse about not knowing whats expected of her for the new national coach.
     
  19. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The announcer said he thinks Peter is set starter at CB. Henning yes hasnt shown anything of her old mojo. We dont know. Hopefully Wensing will be back just in time. But yes the backline is a tossup with the exception of Maier
    Yes, especially when you consider that the male assistant seems to prefer his old Essen homies. Still, Däbritz is the msot secure starter. I dont see the new coaching team giving Maro as much leeway as Silv did.
    [​IMG]
    whhoooooaaaaaatt?????? The Petermann I had to defend from batfinkens for the last 2 years?????????
     
  20. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    As Dallmann's biggest fan, I was pleasantly surprised to see her start in her NT debut. And boy, did she deliver! Got to thank Jones for finally giving Dallmann the chance to finally prove herself, especially since not just Neid never picking her, but also Meinert's lack of confidence/ not starting her at the u20 WC a few years back.
    Defiantly in line with Jones preference with the diamond midfield and two strikers on top. With future stars like Lea Schuller on the horizon, and the penetration/ playmaking styles of Dallmann/Maro, it's good to have two options as your final target.
    Love of course Jones preference for a faster, more up tempo paced game. In this case, don't think the heavy gegen pressing was really needed, as it did seem like it did tire out the team towards the late 2nd half. It might be better saved for those 6 sub type games(friendlies, Algarve Cup, SBC, ect).
    The game did get sloppy a bit, but obviously it was going to happen with s completely new unit in there and the heavy rain downpour didn't help. The faster Karicki should of come in there for Mittag to get pass Russia's high offsides trap.
    Overall, so many options for Jones to explore now that she's bringing in new players, a trend that will certainly continue.
     
  21. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    LOL, yeah... I think he's only saying that because he's not seen or doesn't know, the other superior options Germany has to offer in that particular position; but he will soon enough. Oh, and I'm not just talking about Wensing coming back either...:whistling:

    See, along with Demann and Hendrich already being part of Jones first squad, Elsig - Wesely - Schöne - Störzel - Prießen will all be called up over the next 6 months, and all these selection possibilities come with us knowing a 100% fit Wensing walks in to this team ahead of a struggling Peter, and a diminished version of Henning.

    When you look at the way the CB's will need to play on this team, it clearly needs two players with attributes very similar to DM's, and I'm not seeing Peter at CB being a player with those kinds of attributes.

    Plus whats up with the early favoritism for Essen talk..? Doorsoun deserves her place, and was actually given her first national team game time with under Neid. Then we have Kerschowski being given starts at FB, meaning Klasen is a perfectly fine RB option for Jones new look team. And who didn't want to see Dallmann called into the senior team mix at some point..? The Essen girls are all in this squad on merit lol.
    Yes... she was still called into the national WAY to early, not having produced anything special to genuinely elevate her self above Bremer... and that's not changed much either. I'd even argue a youngster like Schüller has been more impressive than Petermann within her short Bundesliga career..:whistling:

    Anyway, all I'm doing here is acknowledging the fact Petermann's part of a Freiburg side who's using a system of play very similar to the one Jones wants to use, and this within a Freiburg team possibly having up to 5 players in or around the national team squad if current selection trends continue to follow through.

    It's in this scenario I'd rather see Petermann in the national pool of forwards ahead of Islacker right now, challenging Mittag to improve or risk being replaced.
     
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  22. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    And I wouldn't dismiss the chances of Marozsan being able to look a whole lot better within Jones team either, as the creativity and goal return of Marozsan in every side but Silvia Neid's senior wnt, is way ahead of any other player in Germany's entire talent pool right now.

    Yeah, Däbritz has sure moved a lot closer with her recent club form and Olympic performances pushing her into that realm of elevated status currently owned by Marozsan; but give Marozsan a key role to control this teams attack, and I think we may finally see Germany's CM-AM positions taken to a level not seen since the world class trio of Lingor - Mienert - Wiegmann dominated the scene...:cautious:

    As everybody seems to have noticed the 2nd half was a real mess lol, but in between the mass praise for Dallmann, I think what a lot of people also seemed to miss was Hendrich's general excellent performance in two positions, and the way it stabilized the defense during a second half where both Goeßling and Dallmann's absence from the central areas, allowed the Russians to constantly attack with renewed purpose right down the middle.

    Russia's use of a high line in the 2nd half would have seen them score with Henning still on the field, and definitely seen them concede more if Dallmann stayed at #10, or was replaced in that role by Kayikci, not Mittag.
     
  23. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I wasn't suggesting Dallmann should be the starting #10 over Maro, especially since the latter is the NT's main free kick/corners specialist, but it's nice to know that Dallmann can take over that spot in case Maro is injured and/or Jones can split playing time starting Dallmann vs these 2nd tier teams.
    But anyway you look at it, very impressive debut, which is probably going to hold back Magull from getting any chance to prove herself. We'll see if Jones is tempted to try Kemme at AM for the next match though.

    You mentioned Dabritz; she should maintain her left/mid starting spot over Faisst. I would take Popp over Mittag at one of the fwds, the other starting fwd would a battle between Huth, Islacker Petermann & in the future, Schuller.
    As I've mentioned; Huth is excellent in reading plays & getting open. But she's just not a strong finisher.
     
  24. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    @Batfink
    Ive finally found the post game interview part where Steffi smack-talked the team + superb analysis(at around 1:50:10 min)
     
    Batfink repped this.
  25. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #100 Batfink, Sep 19, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
    If Marozsan doesn't finally come to life in a #10 role now, I'm sure she'll be replaced or found a new position in the team; but the fact the like of Marozsan can, and will be dropped for others to get game time, is a really positive thing you'd never imagine seeing under Neid.
    Magull's an interesting case, as she's a very technical player (aka rarely loses the ball), having really good performances in the #10 and CAM role for Freiburg. But lacking real athleticism to get up and down the field, I know she's a player who'd never get games in Neid's rigid 4-4-2, but may be best suited to play in Jone fluid 4-3-1-2...:cautious:

    Kemme would also be great in Jones new box to box CM positions too, but with Maier being one of the 3 players leaving the squad early, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kemme reprise her LB role vs Hungary, so Klassen or Blässe start at RB.
    Faißt's a really good player, but I see your point in wanting Däbritz to be first choice in a CM role. Popp's 1 and 2 touch ability is very good, meaning she'll thrive in a team using quicker build up play. But seeing how well Huth's style worked without a real instinct for goal, the one FW who I foresee doing the best within this new team system is probably Bremer.
     

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