You guys should definitely use existing ratings of active players by fm as referent points. They can tell you so much and too wide extant they are correct and they make sense... just post bunch of screenshots of different types. I cant say much about ratings of many players, but by being long time fm fan and briefly scanning through database, i am sure you were too generous with flair ratings. Majority are above 18.. just consider that Xavi was never rated above 15 in flair. Zidane shouldnt be 20 for example. I also want to note that dribbling is mostly about controling ball on a run rather than holding off players in spot. Another thing is that Xavis, Guardiolas decision making is not of the same type as Cruyffs due to flair and their role in general. You cant compare their stats and highlight in the same manner. Btw, isnt Messi rated 20 in decisions already by fm? That tells you how much it means whether you lose possesion or not. Ronaldinhos off the ball (17) is too high and Ronaldinhos free kicks 17 while Zidanes 18? no way.. Meazza should have different personality (the lowest rating possible for thread proffesionalism) and very low teamwork and decision making... as well as Best. You guys should also, beforehand, determine which exact version of player you are actually doing (in terms of how old they are). For example, 30 plus Cristiano is different player than 25 and younger. That greately matters. It would have been nice if you also included a graphical representation of ratings in your screenshots, you know that characteristic fm octagon.
Think of decision making as how well u use your technical and other abilities, thats it. You can have vision 20 and yet choose a bad passing option. Have 20 dribbling yet run into 4 players and lose possesion. I would say 16 for Cruyff is fine (17 perhapse), considering de bruyne from last season is rated 15 being comparably good Synonim for high decision making would be a simple yet effective football. Players you find playing simplistic and elegant football tend to be higher in that rating. Does Cruyff keep things simple?
I can see what you mean with Pelé but still think he's an option for 'decisions 20' imho. Other forwards of more recent times are Bergkamp, Raul and Messi as viable options.
Rest assured that after this season De Bruyne his decisions will be rated (much) higher by Football Manager. Until now he was a bit under the radar, in particular at Wolfsburg. Decisions at 16 would take him 2 or 3 points below Maradona his decision making - that is simply not right at all. Typical.
Did i say Maradona deserve that rating? Havent i EXPLICITLY said 2017 De Bruyne rather than this season De Bruyne? and how much do you wanna bet on that fm will, at most, raise his decision making by one? I've played this game since ever and have been following rating patterns for years.. youll see, typically right.
Yeah, I can see the logic there. Moving to midfielders I guess Redondo would be an interesting one re: decisions, although didn't check what he's been given on the database just now. Capello saying 'tactically perfect', but maybe some questions about a really high rating for it too (although part of making peak versions, is putting them in generally good form I suppose, so giving the benefit of doubt in some cases for some attributes, even though consistency can perhaps be built in via attributes a bit since PoetGooner says the online version doesn't use the hidden consistency attribute itself).
Yeah that is a good one (although that comp doesn't show all major scenes, it is for ex. omitting this one 'big' scene) With some googling you can also find individual stats/accuracy about this match. But of course in some matches from around the same time he played very different such as here or again very different here. Perhaps that doesn't make it easier to put a number on 'decisions'. Yeah I think maybe his 'peak decisions' are maybe even better than the ones of Guardiola so to speak, but overall maybe not as constantly high. He did do more unexpected things and I know I'm not the only one to have that impression. In some ways easier to rate that for these type of players (or forwards as Pelé, Raul) and harder for the Nedved, Gullit etc. type of all-round players. Or easier to rate it for Busquets than for a dynamic De Bruyne.
Agreed. Thinking about it just now, my instinct would be to give Zico a very good rating for decisions too I think. Although it'd be important I suppose not to double-count for things like vision, passing, when deciding on his decisions rating.
Chumpitaz. I give him the higher values in: Long shots - Goalscorer defender and accurately assister with long shots. Marking, Tackling - Just as database showed. Anticipation, Leadership, Positioning - Just as database showed. Jumping Reach - Cannavaro at WC 2006 reminds me of him, Chumpitaz had a great jump and was great hanging in the air, being able to face taller forwards. Balance - 100% muscle build player, can hold and winning physical contact with stronger forwards in the ground or in the air. Maybe increasing Composure and decreasing Determination. Very good in Natural Fitness and Agility more than Acceleration. Rodriguez Andrade. Definitely a Lateral Defender (Right and Left) Marking, Tackling - One of the best old-time markers. At least 18 each. Bravery, Determination - A main actor in two of the greatest matches ever: Maracanazo 1950, vs Hungary 1954. At least 18 each. Teamwork, Workrate - Very good at both Agility, Natural Fitness, Stamina - Very good. Also increasing Pace and Dribbling, because he was good going forward by his flank. I'd increase technique in defensive task and to start attacks.
Just checked Zico now, and he has 16 for decisions so yes my idea would be to at least increase that to 18 I think. For some it's difficult because I could be generally thinking of increases to attributes (and inevitably that means a higher overall rating), but for Zico maybe it's a case of a legend where I can mix some advised increases with decreases: - I wonder whether dribbling can be just nudged down a point, but don't insist on it although would not think going up to 20 was correct anyway, even just thinking of the technical side of it obviously, plus natural elusiveness I guess (but not physical traits covered by other values) - I would tend to increase finishing and offset by decreasing long shots - I think I'd have teamwork above leadership (maybe a swap in values between them could be ok, or even more drastic with a bigger drop in leadership) - Vision perhaps a point up if anything for me, but not absolutely necessary again probably - Physically I think agility and balance can go up (the latter maybe by a few although still ending up below the former I'd say), and can be offset by a slight drop in speed and/or strength based attributes.
I see Redondo does already have 18 for decisions too now. Maybe there can be discussion about whether to even increase it but it seems in the right ballpark to me anyway. Thinking of things to change, speed coming down seems the obvious one, but I also wonder about putting composure up by 2 (could just switch around with flair, or put flair and vision both down by 1 I'd think - out of those 3 attributes my feeling would be composure can be the very high number anyway).
This shows that well. I forgot to mention though that his above average scoring was also because of his free kicks. Such as here and here. Interestingly there are two or three direct free kick goals of Johan captured on video, but he rarely took them (just like the penalties; zero penalties for Ajax with the famous one-two not counting as a PK goal). I don't think it has all touches and all actions, but this is the best available.
Nice video Puck - some scenes hinting at reasons to give Guardiola very high composure too I'd say, and I think it makes sense that high level deep-lying playmakers would get that, generally speaking. In terms of ideas for creating other players, whereas on Peterhrt's thread for 100 all-time players in historical terms (split by position/era) I even doubted I'd include 2 normal inclusions in any list I make, Neeskens and Savicevic, myself, let alone expected the consensus should do, on here maybe I do think it'd be justified to edit the only 2 players (I think, having scanned the database by position) I include in my most recent idea of best/top 100 players that aren't already being created - Brian Laudrup and John Robertson (the latter of course being arguable, and the former relatively borderline in my own thoughts now too perhaps). For Robertson, even though it's not generally his prime, I was already thinking of making a video for a game from 82/83 (for Scotland, vs East Germany where he makes the goals and is picked out by the East German manager). Meanwhile for the younger Laudrup, I think this recently uploaded video does give a good basis for any attribute ratings:
Composure should be taken with an extra cautiousness cuze it mostly refers to composure in front of a goal..
Looking at the description of it on the page linked in the OP (particularly the middle paragraph) it seems like it's meant to cover all composure-affected scenarios: http://www.guidetofootballmanager.com/players/player-attributes For our purposes, as well as gameplay in general, maybe it'd be better to add a separate 'goal-chance composure' rating or something, but I suppose other attributes and players roles can cause in effect differences between goal-chance composure and midfield composure for example. It's the same with technique I think - one rating that covers different aspects of technique (with in reality different players best at these different aspects). But again maybe the other attributes can help determine what sorts of techniques each player will be best at (and which they liked to do - which can often be realted to what they are good at and comfortable with, using the preferred moves tick boxes).
I know, exactly! I've always thought that was sloppy from fm. As well as offensive and defensive work rate. Those are some major components
977984389731815424 is not a valid tweet id Proves what someone said earlier. De Bruyne, Messi and Neymar lose more balls than others.
Indeed. FM definitely need more skills breakdown. You've already mentioned work-rate and technique, which I think should be broken down for each technical skill (shooting, first touch, dribbling, and passing, at least) but my personal pet peeve is movement. There are some players who are very good at movement in the final third, but hopeless during the buildup (Walcott) while someone like Iniesta is a master at finding pockets of space in the midfield, but they have to use the same attribute. If you give Iniesta the movement rating he deserves to be elusive in midfield, a manager could set him up to make forward runs like he's Lampard, very easily.
RE: Chumpitaz, do you suggest keeping his acceleration (he looked very fast in the videos that I've seen of him) and just upping the agility? It would put his agility right up there among the highest.
He wasn't know as a fast player, I mean Fast per se. He was very good at covering, I think a combo of Agility-Acceleration can show that, but as I didn't see Reaction, to perform some quickly and elastic clearance, I chose Agility for him.
Creating is very high risk high reward strategy... this would be the case for Cruyff, Maradona and others as well. I am not sure if there are stats from wcs available proving that
Data is for the record at certain match, I take an approx./average. The second data is how many seconds, he makes the 100-meter race (less is better) https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Futbolistas_más_veloces_del_mundo Player ----- Km/h - s/100m- Rating Bale ---------- 35,2 ---- 10,2 ---- 20 CRonaldo -- 34,2 ---- 10,5 ---- 20 Robben ----- 33,2 ---- 10,8 ---- 19 Messi ------- 32,2 ----- 11,2 ---- 18 Rooney ----- 31,7 ---- 11,4 ---- 18 Ribery ------- 30,7 ---- 11,7 ---- 18 Alexis ------- 30,1 ---- 11,9 ---- 18 S.Ramos --- 30,0 ---- 12,0 ---- 17 There are several histories for footballers making the 100m. at 11 seconds. And others that were professional sprinters as uruguayan Isabelino Gradín. My ladder for Speed / Pace 20: Bale, CRonaldo, Salah, A.Valencia 19: Robben, Lato, Henry, Di Maria, Gento, RCarlos, Ronaldo, Eto'o, Muñante, Gradín 18: Messi, Rooney, Ribery, Alexis, Eusebio, Pele, Petrone, Stábile, Facchetti, Rummenigge, Giggs, Weah, Kaka, Boniek, Jairzinho, Stoichkov, A.Cole, Alba, Neymar, Mazzali, Urbain Wallet 17: S.Ramos, L.Suárez, Mascherano, Pique, Busquets, Godín 16: Iniesta, Xavi H. 15: Rakitic Not mentioned players, could be placed according each group. For example, Maradona 17, Di Stéfano 19, etc. I guess, some player could be placed 1 tier above/below. My tiers were, running 100 meter at: 10 seconds - 20 points, 10,6s - 19, 11,2s - 18, 11,8s - 17, 12,4s - 16, 13s - 15, 13,6s - 14 points. Maybe, could be made more tiers until less than 10 points.
You can't truthfully estimate how fast they would be in 100m run. Acceleration plays a huge part in that as well as stamina, and where exactly did you get those numbers from? The link you posted shows completely different numbers