Post-match: League's Cup group, v Chicago, v Toluca

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by mschofield, Jul 29, 2024.

  1. BenDover

    BenDover BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 4, 2010
    Rio Verde, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s well established now that the SKC roster is so poor that Pep Guardiola would have a hard time getting results with this team. PV has taken a beating on this forum and about every other forum I’ve seen. I know he is part of the problem, but now I’m thinking that ownership is the biggest problem. It’s time that Illig sells this team to an ownership group that takes this sport seriously.
     
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  2. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've reluctantantly come around to this stance as well and have said so in this forum. I still think PV has to go. Why, because of the organizational rot that exists, because the academy is 100 percent his failure, because he's the don of the mafia style organization he's created.

    That said, I agree that changing a coach with this turd of a roster would not work miracles. I do think a more pragmatic coach could polish the turd and have this roster mid table.

    Look, again I have said this many times on this forum. SKC ARE A PROVINCIAL CLUB. MLS 2.0 and 3.0 didn't have provincial teams. MLS 4.0 or 5.0 or whatever we are in does. It's time for us fans to accept that we are Burnley, Leicester City, Verona, Bologna etc. We'll never match the resources of Man City, Juventus, Inter, but we can be competitive with 1) a pragmatic coach 2) good youth players.

    Peter thinks we are Man City. We are not. The Illigs need to hire a coach that can compete by playing a different style.

    MLS fans wanted European style soccer. Well, you have it and that starts by understanding that 2/3 of the league has zero chance to win year in and year out.

    Welcome to being Bologna. It's not that bad.
     
  3. BenDover

    BenDover BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 4, 2010
    Rio Verde, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope, I won’t accept supporting a team the plans to be fodder for larger market clubs. As Mschofield explained, Columbus is not a large market and compares in many ways to the greater KC area. If they found a way to put a superior team on the pitch, SKC can do the same.
     
  4. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    To be fair, both Manchester clubs are provincial. Liverpool is provincial. Here, every city is judged to be lacking compared to the one great city of Germany, Berlin, where our soccer traditionally sucks. Toss in Munich and Hamburg and you have the three cities of more than 5 million (metro, city alone and Berlin is the largest, 3.5 m and most cosmopolitan by a long shot. Frankfurt has banking so maybe them). Juve is most certainly provincial.
    More on point: RSL, Columbus, Minnesota, Cinci, etc, are all provincial.
    Provincial clubs can dominate. They certainly manage in other US sports. In a salary cap league, there should be an advantage to being provincial, maybe not with superstars, but solid pros realize $600k a year in KC is still substantial, while in New York, San Jose (I'd argue tech dominance makes them not at all provincial), etc, it means less.
    Our failure has nothing to do with size or location.
    We have no idea who we are as a club. when we were good, we knew exactly who we were.
    We are not building towards something. Vermes believes he's arrived and just has to maintain, and seems surprised year after year that's he's proven wrong.
    He was great for MLS 2.0. He thinks we're still there..
     
  5. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    And just for the sake of comparison, the cities, KC and Manchester, are both under 600,000. Metro areas both under 3 million (Manchest is bigger, but it isn't by that much.
     
  6. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doesn't matter what you "accept". When was the last time the team was relevant? Without a change in how finances are invested into the roaster, this is SKC.

    Provincial isn't always about size, but it is always about financial support. Man City was crap until they were purchased by money.
     
  7. BenDover

    BenDover BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 4, 2010
    Rio Verde, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s exactly what I am saying. I don’t have any confidence that the ownership will come up with the kind of money to keep SKC in the conversation about the best teams in the league. That’s why I think Illig needs to sell it to an ownership group that will.
     
  8. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then you're likely looking at the same situation as the Crew a few years ago where we become relocation fodder again. There aren't the type of money people in KC to "save" the team this time really.
     
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  9. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Sorry. I was going with the traditional meaning of provincial, of the provinces, not cosmopolitan, etc.
    You're using the idea of club wealth. Forbes puts SKC as very midtable.
    Buzz is correct, forced to sell, the club will land in Vegas, Phoenix, Detroit or Indy. Probably Vegas, as they're a bit away from the expansion sweepstakes and have a lot of money.
     
  10. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The idea of a new ownership group purchasing the team sounds great but is far fetched. Plus like Buzz said, they might be interested in relocating. Rather it's time for the club to be managed like a successful provincial club, the ones that fight for a Champions league spot, not like the ones that fight off relegation.

    Provincial clubs can, and do, have success. You just can't have a manager that wants to play like Barcelona, but has a Getafe roster. Manage to your rosters strength and have a good youth program and you can still be successful.

    The easiest solution is still to replace PV with someone less dogmatic about "how we play". And get someone to fix the academy.
     
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  11. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    And, to expand, he could have addressed this on either end. I think we all would have been on board with, or at least understood, either approach,
    He could have enhanced roster quality. The last significant transfers were Thommy and Agada (Radoja didn't have a club, did Memo?). We're now in the fourth window since we last added players who would be considered starting level MLS 2024 players, SKC has talked about Vermes getting three or four windows to rebuild, immediately after we wasted 3 windows (not sure I believe this one won't be wasted either). If we'd added young talent, like Vargas, Afrifa, Davis (to the 11) while upgrading everywhere else, where would we be right now?
    Or he could have changed his tactical approach, to make it fit what he had, an aging, slow-ish side but with some players who certainly have something to offer if put in the right situations.
    Now, he says ownership refused him on the first option, but the decision not to bend on tactics is all on him.
     
  12. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Pep would absolutely fail with this group. Playing with a poorly constructed roster of mediocrities is not his thing. his system with this talent? It would be a disaster.
    If he had decided to come to MLS, and was 100 percent set on a club in the midwest, he'd look at our roster and scratch us off the list.
     
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  13. kcfooty

    kcfooty Member

    Feb 16, 2011
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, the Longs already have a successful soccer enterprise.
     
  14. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I look at the last several transfer windows and it reminds me of Reading. I lived there as a kid, so have retained a lifelong interest in them. They had a rich-adjacent owner, Sir John Madjeski, who put the right team together to send the club on the greatest run in it's history, 2005/06 (all time points record, with 106, won first promotion to top league in 135 years of operation), 2006/07 8th place in Prem, 2007/08 relegated after being in 10th in January. 2010/11 back up. Sir John (knighted for football success) decided he was not rich enough to keep Reading in the top tier, so he sought and sold to allegedly deep pocketed folks, a string of disasters, a Russian oligarch who wasn't, really, (his dad was, but also, his dad's empire boomed because more than 400 competitors were murdered, so...), then the Thai energy drink folks (who came up with a great stupid song for the club, but were disappointed running it was so expensive) now the Chinese billionaire, who hasn't invested and Reading are now down to League One, with no financial support, club has to self support which means they cannot compete in the Championship). He is selling now to someone else.
    But the lesson: New owners only matter if they're crazed fans and filthy rich and don't mind burning huge piles of money.
    SKC got one local group that was that, and they have invested a ton in facilities (stadium, training, etc).
    They would be very, very lucky to get another.
     
  15. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    woah woah woah... they invested the taxpayer's money into the stadium , training facilities, etc. like most greedy wealthy people in this country, they've done well to have the public pay for their infrastructure while they reap the private profits.
     
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  16. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Star bonds, by design, can cover 50 percent of the cost. I am not a fan of public funding of private clubs, but unless my memory is way off, the owners did invest the other $100m in the stadium, right? Same with the training ground?
     
  17. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Just seeing one last thing that sucks about CG^2: Our next game is August 25, after more than 2 weeks off. Our next game after that is August 28.
    WTF couldn't we play the USOC game coming weekend?
     
  18. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's better than the 22 they had off last year.
     
  19. dgb09

    dgb09 Member

    Jun 11, 2003
    Overland Park, KS
    So that just means more time for our imminent new signing to get into the training ground and become familiar with the team before running out with the starting XI on 8/25 and leading the amazing push to get above the line and a deep playoff run. Right! Right?
     
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  20. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Once again, evidence that Vermes is thinking 10 moves ahead in three D chess and I'm thinking in chutes and ladders.
     
    kcfooty repped this.

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