I support any country from conmebol, the rest of the latin america can burn in hell. ""SOCCER WISE"" no offense, just my opinion.
Those Argentines you met are just "bestias" as we say in Argentina. Unfortunately we have a lot of them and they represent us badly. Think 'New Jersey Guidos' types. Often Rich/Educated they grow up privileged and feel they can talk off anyone they feel like. They will steal your place in a queue and pretend like nothing is wrong. My hypothesis being that a lot of them picked that crap up from their Italian relatives. Italians in general have a cocky attitude. Those people would be considered rude in most Argentine circles as "mal creados". Basically meanining they were not taught proper behavior. It is considered extremely bad manners to offend your guests and all Argentines go out of their way to not offend business associates, clients, or acquaintances. Too bad you've had some bad experiences. As far as my support it comes in this order: Argentina >> Uruguay > Chile > Paraguay > Peru > Colombia Brazil is difficult -- too much of a rivalry Because of my direct european ancestry, if no CONMEBOLs are left I prefer: Spain > France > Italy Only support Mexico when they play USA
Rich, yes; but, educated? If they were EDUCATED they would know better than to be such arrogant douches. As for those associates, it's all right... I had a former coworker who was from Argentina and he would often make jokes about Brazil during the World Cup qualifying for 2002. But after Argentina lost in the first round and Brazil won the Cup, he never spoke to me about soccer again.
To be honest, I don't know who or what you have experienced but I've always had the utmost respect for Brazilians. Even when engaged in soccer trash talk. As you know I'm from Queens, NY and encounter many Brazilians thru the course of the year and never have we had any problems with them, in business or non business. Yes there is a normal back and forth considering the rivalry but nothing that anyone would constitute as 'non professional' or 'rude'. Again I'm not saying that this hasn't existed but it doesn't seem like the norm.
Cosmos, since we're on good terms and because I think you're a genuinely good guy, I'll share with you what I faced so you can make your own conclusions. I'm working in a major international institution early this decade. I have to call foreign cities to speak to collegues and clients. Mind you, when it comes to the South American branches, the contact folks were generally manager-level or higher and they had to be - and were - fluent in English. This alone meant that they were educated - they may not have necessarily been sons and daughters of the elite, but they were arguably on a better socioeconomic level than their average compatriots both by virtue of English fluency and by being in a position to work at the local branch of my former company. Several times when calls were made, the conversation would become more "informal" after the business conversation was complete. After all, they knew my name (which is a giveaway of my South American origins) and that I spoke Spanish. Inevitably, soccer entered the conversation. Here are some comments. From an Argentine woman in 2001: "yes, Rosario Central is better than the teams from Brazil, and Argentina is better than Brazil, and we are going to beat you and you're not going to go to the World Cup!" and she made a mockery of Brazil, literally laughing while she mentioned Brazil's struggles then. From another Argentine woman in early 2002, the moment she found out I was from Brazil: "You're Brazilian? I don't talk to Brazilians." And she hung up the phone. And, my aforementioned former coworker, who has an MBA and who even lived in Brazil and speaks fluent Portuguese (he was actually a nice guy, but when Argentina was running rampant in WCQ for 2002 and Brazil was floundering, he wouldn't stop mocking Brazil. The highlight of it was Copa America 2001). This also happened with "blue-collar" Argentine immigrants who may have perhaps been the type of poor, "groncho" person who immigrates. A waiter at an Argentine steakhouse in Jackson Heights, upon learning I was Brazilian... "se clasifica!" after nearly throwing his waiter towel at me. An elderly fast food vendor on those street carts, who had always been congenial and friendly, when I one day chatted him up in Spanish and then I revealed my origins: "Fijate muchacho, Argentina siempre rompio el culo a tu pais; ustedes solo empezaron a ganar en 1970." (He didn't say this to "inform" me of soccer history - he could've definitely done so using more polite language.) An Argentine middle-aged man who was with his buddies when I was walking in Penn Station w/ Brazil's shirt not long after Brazil had lost to Chile 3-0 in 2000: "eh, se comieron 3 en Chile!" I could expect such comments from people who are culturally low - they know no better. But the individuals I mentioned first dealt w/ Americans and Europeans daily, and they were not from the so-called "villas miserias" of your country. And while there is room for some banter, there was more than sufficient blatant animosity and genuine prejudice geared towards me for no other factor than me being a Brazilian. EDIT: I also called and spoke to people from countries such as Chile, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Colombia, Mexico, Spain, Italy, England, Germany, Holland, Switzerland... and while it's true that none of these countries have any sort of real rivalry w/ Brazil in soccer, I was never once treated the way I have been by Argentines either on the phone or in person. So when you compute all this, it's hard not to conclude that, hey, Argentines just dislike Brazilians.
Sorry to hear that, Century's Best. As you already know, you won't get the same treatment in Ecuador: http://www.eluniverso.com/2002/07/01/0001/653/012903E5A85C45E2854DD464C364BAC5.html
Brazilians are great people. I never had any problems with them. I've had more problems with Argentines than Brazilians. Of the other Latin Americans, I really get along with Mexicans, Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Chileans, Uruguayans, and Ecuadorians. Colombians are a mixed bag - the women are incredibly down-to-earth, but the men seem to be mostly arrogant/sleezy/delusional pricks. They have a *huge* chip on their shoulder when it comes to Argentines. Bolivians have been OK, but definitely have felt some underlying racial tension. My favorite Brazilian is Ronaldinho. I just really enjoyed how he treated Messi in Barcelona and I think he is a down-to-earth person who doesn't let the fame get to his head. He's somebody that would treat anybody off the street with respect. I was really upset when they burned his statue in Brazil. I felt he didn't deserve such treatment. Supporting Brazil is hard. I have a problem with the cocky new generation Brazilians players - they just reek of attitude, and they keep breeding them. Robinho, is the worst. I pray that little bitch gets his career ruined and we never have to hear from him again. Kaka is tolerable and seems down-to-earth in the press, but all the Jesus Christ stuff just creeps me out - a bit sanctimonius if you ask me. Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Adriano, etc.. just a bunch of as's'holes. After 1994 my sympathies for Brazil fell. Romario/Bebeto/Dunga were cool, but Leonardo pissed me off. I don't care if he went to apologize later - what he did was downright wrong. Not that Maradona is great person either, mind you, but I don't think these guys are really any better. And while Pele has a better reputation, let's face it, he's a FIFA puppet - he seems so fake and superficial. Maradona is one stupid mofo, but I'll grant him this - he speaks from the heart and he is not afraid to say politically incorrect things. And sometimes the man makes sense between his other ramblings, like when he criticized the Vatican for all the gold in the church and nothing for the poor.
This is true. It'd be nice if Pele grew a spine one of these years. I also appreciate Dieguito's attempts at speaking out in favor the disadvantaged. Hasn't he also criticized the treatment of Bolivians and Paraguayans living in Argentina? Or was that just Chilavert?
dont forget to include peruvians. the peruvians who reside in nice places, as well as the ones who live in the villas, and the drug dealers from the 'favelas argentinas'
Respuesta: Re: Latin/South American "brotherhood?" Vivamos la hermandad en mis liveblogs en español aqui: http://depuntayparaarriba.blog.terra.com.co/
Respuesta: Re: Latin/South American "brotherhood?" Support for all my latin brothers without a doubt. And I'm not even in the US to begin with. "I won't support country X because a Bigsoccer poster from that country insulted me" = you are an idiot.
una frase muy frecuente usada por colombianos hablando de futbol... pero no te preocupes, los 20 años a los que el brazuca se refiere son 5 partidos nada mas el ultimo partido ganado fue en el 90 a Corea en el ultimo partido del grupo y despues perdimos con Italia en octavos la proxima vez que estuvimos en un mundial fue en el 2002, 2 empates y una derrota y afuera y este empate de ahora con Francia en 2010... tendrias que saber esto ya, nuestros vecinos del norte tienen una tendencia a "embellecer la realidad"(como dicen los yanquis) un poquito siempre, alguna vez estuviste en Texas? algo parecido... "o mais grande do mundo" "jogo bonito" "los uruguayos y los argentinos son los que pegan, nosotros no" "fair play" etc etc etc pero que le vamos a hacer... there is a sucker born every minute as they say
Obviously it was "only 5 games/20 years." Your team did not make it to 1994, 1998, and 2006; and, in 2002, it didn't win any games; it drew 2 and lost 1. I would rather not tell you what Brazil did in the 4 World Cups above.
Everyone everywhere always has the same level of education and culture, right? Politically correct nonsense.