Lansdowne vs Kanata vs Lebreton Flats

Discussion in 'Ottawa Fury FC' started by FandesRens, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. Ottawa MLS Fan

    Feb 11, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    It would be disappointing for Ottawa to be trying to move into USL, just as the remaining Canadian teams and Portland are all trying to get out, and into MLS.
     
  2. Coup de boule

    Coup de boule Member

    Jul 27, 2008
    Ottawa
    Thank you for proving my point. ;) People make it to the arena in spite of its location.

    The reverse is also true: the Lansdowne location did not always translate into great attendance for Ottawa's football teams. A big reason for that - perhaps - was because of parking issues and lack of mass transit.
     
  3. AaronEmes

    AaronEmes New Member

    Mar 6, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    I'm not sure what point I proved. I trek out to Kanata and grumble about it. So far I have kept buying tickets, although I miss more and more games each year due to the distance. For every grumbling fan, how many don't make the effort to get out there? More importantly, how many will go out to see a competitive team, but won't make the effort for a non-competitive team?

    I'm not sure why the advantages of a central location are so difficult to understand. Putting a venue in the centre of the city means the shortest trip for the greatest number of people. It also means the best transportation links, even in the absence of rapid transit directly to the venue. 18,000 people in cars don't all need to converge on one highway heading in the same direction.

    I think most people would put ownership and team performance well ahead of parking concerns and lack of rapid transit as factors contributing to attendance troubles at Lansdowne. In any event, comparisons of NHL hockey attendance with CFL football attendance are entirely pointless.
     
  4. Ottawa MLS Fan

    Feb 11, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Wherever you put a stadium there will always be people who grumble about the location. Personally, everything you wrote about the trek to Kanata, I feel about the slog down Bank Street.

    However, the discussion really is pointless. If you want MLS in Ottawa, the only site that it is on offer is Kanata. It is not coming to Lansdowne, or Bayview or Lebreton or anywhere else.
     
  5. AaronEmes

    AaronEmes New Member

    Mar 6, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    I think you are right about Kanata being the only option for MLS in this round of expansion. However I would take issue with your suggestion about people grumbling wherever a stadium is built. The vast majority of people in Ottawa prefer a central location. That is why if there is only money for one stadium, Kanata would be a huge mistake. From the Citizen:

    "Ottawans would be divided right down the middle if forced to choose between a professional soccer or football franchise for the city, according to a poll obtained by the Citizen on Friday.

    But they are almost united in their opposition to the idea of a stadium in Kanata for either sport, the EKOS Research Associates survey says.
    The poll, conducted Dec. 11-16 for the development group that wants to bring the Canadian Football League back to Ottawa, suggests there is broad support for both soccer and football. Forty-four per cent of the 871 people surveyed said they supported a Major League Soccer team for Ottawa. Forty-three per cent preferred the idea of a CFL team. Thirteen per cent were unsure.

    The poll also indicated that if the city is fortunate enough to be awarded franchises in both sports, most Ottawans think the two teams should share the stadium at Lansdowne Park. When asked their preferred location for a multi-purpose sports complex, 79 per cent named Lansdowne Park. Fifteen per cent chose Kanata."

    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/story_print.html?id=1288533&sponsor
     
  6. Ottawa MLS Fan

    Feb 11, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I standby my statement. It is not possible to please everybody with a stadium location. I believe that poll only offered choices of Lansdowne or Kanata. The 15% that voted for Kanata would probably grumble at travelling to Landsdowne. In all likelyhood, so would the 15% who might have chosen Bayview, had it been an option, and maybe the 15% that might have chosen somewhere in the east end, and the 15% that would have prefered somewhere in south Ottawa.

    And that poll didn't address people who don't want a stadium anywhere near where they live. There are plently of Glebe residents who already complain about a stadium in their neighborhood (even if the stadium was there when they moved into the area), and I'm sure they won't stop complaining about a new stadium.

    I know I am not the only person who has posted on this board about the whole Lansdowne experience being a pain to get to, and it will only be worse with less on-site parking.
     
  7. AaronEmes

    AaronEmes New Member

    Mar 6, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    You are right that some will complain about Lansdowne. You are never going to have everyone agreeing on anything. But given the two choices that are on the table, an 80% preference for Lansdowne is overwhelming and should not be ignored.

    As far as Glebe residents complaints go, for the most part they are pure NIMBYism. And the worst kind of NIMBYism at that, as the stadium has been there for longer than any of them have lived there. I attended the sessions put on by the city about the Lansdowne project. While there is certainly a vocal group that wants the stadium gone, that was not the sentiment of the majority of attendees. Despite the focus of news reports there are at least as many local residents who see the stadium as an important neighbourhood asset and want it revitalized. Even more favoured a revitalization once it became clear that a failure to update Lansdowne jeopardizes the 67's, a team that regularly draws as many or more fans than either CFL or MLS.
     
  8. FandesRens

    FandesRens New Member

    Jan 25, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Ottawa
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    All I can say about Kanata VS Lansdowne is that when the Senators were at the Civic Center (where Lansdowne is) I attended about 100 games from 1992 to 1996), and now that the Sens have been in Scotia bank place (since January 1996) I have attended about 15 games... Travelling, parking, getting out of the parking lot and travelling back have been a major pain.

    While I know that only Kanata is on the table for MLS, it doesn't make it any less of a pain.
     
  9. Ottawa MLS Fan

    Feb 11, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Unfortunately polls do not address the whole subject. There are a number of polls (two in the Sun recently) that showed a 2 to 3 times preference of MLS to CFL. This is also an overwhelming preference and should not be ignored, even though it is contradictory with the poll you mentioned. What they probably show is that the most popular option would probably be MLS and CFL at Lansdowne, but this outcome, while maybe desirable, is no more likely to happen than me watching the games from Bert's Bar.

    So we must start to focus on the only realistic options:

    Do people want 1). CFL in a revitalised Lansdowne, 2). MLS in a new Kanata stadium, or 3). no public money put into stadiums in Ottawa.

    My vote goes for Option 2.
     
  10. FandesRens

    FandesRens New Member

    Jan 25, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Ottawa
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Carefull about the Sun polls, it is well known that some people voted over and over on these (there are many ways around the IP check that the survey does).

    As for the above poll, it could be a dangerous one to do. As big sports fans who might want CFL or MLS would be divided in their voting allegiance whole those against sports would be united. Make it two questions;

    1- Should Ottawa have a major events stadium?
    -yes -No

    2- If yes to #1, which would you prefer:
    -Revamped Lansdowne where a CFL (and other sports/events/concerts) could be hosted?
    -A Soccer Specific Stadium in Kanata which would hose a MLS soccer team and other soccer related events (plus concerts)
     
  11. AaronEmes

    AaronEmes New Member

    Mar 6, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    The poll may be limited, but if there is one thing that a majority of Ottawa residents agree on, it is that putting the hockey arena in Kanata was a mistake. I don't doubt for second that the majority would have the same feeling about a stadium.

    This is about more than a single sports team. It is a $100 million multi-use facility principally funded by the public. This will be the city's only major outdoor stadium. It should go in the right place for the city. I would sacrifice an MLS team to have CFL, concerts, international and lower level soccer at Lansdowne where they should be.
     
  12. AaronEmes

    AaronEmes New Member

    Mar 6, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    That is a good point. The worst possible result would be that the division between soccer and football fans causes the process to bog down, and those against both proposals get their wish by default.
     
  13. Ottawa MLS Fan

    Feb 11, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    You are right about polls, of course, but I really doubt that the percentage of MLS fans with the knowledge and inclination to cheat, is any greater than that of CFL fans.

    You are also right on the questions. I would probably simplify it even further and only ask your second question:

    Which would you prefer:
    A. Revamped Lansdowne where CFL (and other sports/events/concerts) could be hosted?
    B. Soccer Specific Stadium in Kanata which would house an MLS soccer team and other soccer related events (plus concerts)
     
  14. FandesRens

    FandesRens New Member

    Jan 25, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Ottawa
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    True! But it only takes one loonie bin to vote 10 000 times and make the pool meaningless... Unfortunately for your question, there probably isn't enough time to get it done (you know government bureaucracy).... We will have to trust our city politicians who will be strongly influenced by both the Hunt grups and their big pockets or the Melnyk group with their big pockets....
     
  15. Ottawa MLS Fan

    Feb 11, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    The council could organise an accurate poll very simply if they wanted to.

    Pick a date before the council vote, say Sunday April 5. Everybody who wants MLS at Kanata goes to Scotiabank Place between 2 and 3pm. Everyone who wants CFL at Lansdowne goes to Lansdowne at the same time. Station a couple of Councilors at each location to count the crowds. That would give a real estimate of supporters who are actually willing to go to some effort to make their views heard, not just those who are willing to click a mouse.

    Maybe Melnyk and Hunt could address their supoporters at the same time, so that it isn't just people milling around aimlessly.
     
  16. FandesRens

    FandesRens New Member

    Jan 25, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Ottawa
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    And some CFL nut will kick a football in the air which will land on an MLS supporter and a humongous brawl will begin... Last group standing wins... ;)
     
  17. Ottawa MLS Fan

    Feb 11, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    As long as you have them at separate locations, ideally the location of the proposed stadium, it should be ok. Any CFL nuts going to Scotiabank place just get counted as votes for MLS :)
     
  18. Coup de boule

    Coup de boule Member

    Jul 27, 2008
    Ottawa
    This is an excellent idea.
     
  19. ortawa

    ortawa New Member

    Feb 10, 2009
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    after reading ives today, I think ottawa and MLS is not going to happen.

    Knowing Montreal is still in and the potential for Canadian Championship matches with Vancouver and Toronto, could the USL make a go of it at Lansdowne?

    what are people's thoughts - I've seen a couple of opinions but more people should weigh in.

    I for one think the lower price downtown would be more successful than higher prices in Kanata.

    And the quality of soccer may not be that far apart.
     
  20. Ottawa MLS Fan

    Feb 11, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I don't see any reason to give up on MLS yet. Personally I think Portland and Ottawa will get the franchises if Ottawa council choose Melnyk's plan. The proposed stadium is so much more what MLS want to showcase their product in than what Vancouver can offer in the near to medium time.
     
  21. AaronEmes

    AaronEmes New Member

    Mar 6, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    I would tend to agree that a cheaper ticket downtown would draw more fans. People want something they can take their family to without spending big money. The cheaper ticket approach has been a big hit in Montreal.
     
  22. ottawasportsfan

    Mar 18, 2005
    ortawa
    Why do you think a downtown stadium would be more sucessful.
     
  23. Ottawa MLS Fan

    Feb 11, 2009
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Cheap tickets don't draw fans on their own (remember the Lynx), and MLS tickets would be classed as cheap anyway, in a city that has an NHL club. $12-$25 according to Cyril Leader on Team1200 this morning.
     
  24. ortawa

    ortawa New Member

    Feb 10, 2009
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    simply, the audience is larger if the stadium is downtown. People from the east and the quebec side have 25 min commutes as opposed to 1 hour.

    Plus the infrastructure of restaurants and bars already exist and I think soccer will need those things to be successful. The passion for hockey is so high, we just go regardless. Heck the stadium cold be 20 minutes further away and most people would still go.
     
  25. ottawasportsfan

    Mar 18, 2005
    1)It took me 30 minutes last night from bells corners to downtown ottawa.This was at 6:00 pm.So i am not sure why people get the idea it takes 1 hour plus.

    2)I have sseen comments where some think very few live in kanata and there is very little around.While in fact that is not true at all.There is about 300,000who live within in 20 minutes of the scotia bank place.

    3)You say it would be shorter for quebec and east but no where do yous ay anything about the west end people.

    Would a stadium be better downtown yes but i just wish people would get some facts right as well.
     

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