The last time I checked, you don't pay $5 a gallon for gas in San Jose. The cost of living in the Bay Area may be high, relative to the rest of the country, but it's at a completely different level in Germany.
Here's a thought...focus on what people write. I don't think I'm exactly a shrinking violet about attacking stupid posts. But remember, there are not stupid people, only stupid posts. Jesus tells me that. The court mandated psychiatrist said that there was nothing wrong with me and that I wasn't a threat to anyone unless they were too sensitive to live. (That was back in 89) PM Me if you want the whole story. Why doesn't this surprise me? To an extent. But the overestimation here is getting LeBron Jamesish with respect to Lannypants I feel your pain. Search my posts about Clint and Kasey. But when I would read those blithe assertions that Kasey is better at organizing his defense than Brad, I would point to our defense's imitation of Girls Gone Wild in the Germany friendly. When they'd bash Brad for not coming out on the SoKo free kick, I'd point them to the goal Kasey gave up against Ireland. But I don't get drawn into this insane feuds like you do. And yet you post.
Did LA thoroughly outplay the Quakes? In the first "leg" in LA, the Gals had 7 shots, and the Quakes had 7. http://www.mlsnet.com/games/02/0914sjla.html In the season ender, the Quakes had 23 shots, and the Gals 10. http://www.mlsnet.com/games/02/0921lasj.html Mike, at this point, just admit you were caught up in your own rhetoric, and were wrong.
Marketing-wise it was a great decision. Business wise (for the MLS) I don't think we'll ever know unless by some miracle he becomes a household name. Personally for him it sounds as if it was a good decision (based on his comments regarding homesickness, missing his family, etc.). Professionally it's a step back for him. I think his game would advance so much more at BL. On the other hand he's young and if the two year plan doesn't pan out he may still have time to go overseas.
MLS should not have gone after retaining Donovan. It's an incredibly bad move on so many levels, it's absolutely mind boggling that anyone (and i mean ANYONE) could have confused this as a good (or logical) move. How could having a talent, such as Donovan, be a bad move for MLS? -MLS doesn't own him -MLS can't sell him -MLS is paying large amounts of money for a 20 year old prospect -MLS could have spent the money they used to prevent this prospect from playing at the next level on prospects that MLS would own -One is less than two (or more, depending on how many players MLS could have gotten to join MLS... raising the level of play more than one player could) How could MLS going after retaining Donovan even be perceived as a bad thing for MLS? -MLS doesn't own his rights -MLS is paying above and beyond the supposed salary max for this player -MLS wasted money that could have been spent pursuing the best young talent in the area... Donovan isn't a once in a lifetime talent on the country scale, let alone the world wide scale.... this country is starting to really produce quality young soccer players... keep your eyes peeled and sign them next time -It belittles the game and says that MLS must have a "name" player to succeed -It belittles the fans by suggesting they won't come for the teams or the rivalries, they will only come when the "name" comes to town -It provides the notion that MLS doesn't want to build the best league it can, it wants to wow fans with "names" How could retaining Donovan be bad for U.S. soccer? -Donovan is being widely quoted as saying that soccer in a foreign land is a nightmare. He comes off spinning soccer away from this country as not worthwhile. In addition, this sets up the notion that he and U.S. soccer players are sissies. -It's a precedent that a country does not want to be setting. One of it's heralded stars has returned home because he couldn't handle it, and now he is blabbing to anyone and everyone that soccer in a foreign land is too hard. He's letting our other talented youth know that they need not actually prove themselves at the highest level. They can simply play here and not push themselves. -He would develop faster and more playing against stiffer competion, be it in daily practice or actual games. He curtails that development in MLS by practicing and playing against lesser competition. -He further instills the notion (to soccer players and fans) that players don't need to fight every day. They can be satisfied with where (playing level) they are and not with where they can be. -As an American athlete, he fails to live up to one of the truest creeds. We take on the best anytime, anywhere, anyhow. No fear. If you want to be the best, you play the best. He isn't playing against the best in MLS. -Soccer in this country is carried by the National team. The media coverage of all soccer is dependent upon them and how good they become. If one of the best players on the team decides to dog it, that effects the whole team and brings it's level down. If the USMNT decreases in ability and cannot earn the same results, attention will decrease and this will spin towards all other soccer here as well. Likewise, if the USMNT does well or even improves upon past results, it will receive more attention. This attention will also spin towards MLS. -He eats a starting spot in MLS that could be another American, and he eats a roster slot that could be another American. All the while, he plays and trains at a higher level than anything in MLS. -The media is backing him. People in the media that are pro US soccer are refusing to touch this. No one wants to connect the dots, they don't want to look at what is going down. They would prefer to think that everything is glorious. What with Donovan choosing to stay in MLS and all. That's fine, it's nice to have a player of his caliber in MLS. But MLS is bending over backwards for this kid. While screwing over most of it's workforce (players). Donovan was living easy street with Leverkusen, well paid and improving his level of play. Sure he wasn't playing, but you gotta prove you belong first... no one is simply handed a bright, shiny star. So MLS spends a great deal of money that could be spent on players here. They could turn the "poster boy of US Soccer (or MLS)" into Twellman, DMB, Convey, Quaranta, Johnson, Buddle, etc. Or turn them all into poster boys. And it's not like U.S. Soccer needs Donovan to play here to market him in the U.S. (tv cameras can be used in Europe... true story). Michael Johnson did himself quite well, not to mention Carl Lewis, Jackie Joyner-Kersee, and others. It's nice to see Donovan in MLS, it's another thing to look at it and not see the problems with it though. Because the greatest problems aren't those that will occur now, it's the future actions that this development will cause. This is a kid that's being pimped as the greatest thing since sliced bread, especially on the soccer scale. And he fled Leverkusen, one of the best (perennially) teams in the world and in one of the best leagues in the world, for MLS. I'm not exactly sure I want a quitter being pimped as the savior of my country's soccer. Do you
From today's NY Times ``The league has evolved, and now there's more of a feeling that we should be giving better salaries to our young Americans and try to keep them here,'' Trey Fitz-Gerald, a league spokesman, said. ``If we take care of them, they will be more inclined to stay.'' Jim you're right, the crop is growing. But it ain't harvest time yet. And picture this perhaps, Landon at 24 playing in England or Spain and lighting things up....The focus won't be on BL, but on MLS. How's that a bad thing?
Meissen - you've gone nuts. I don't want to be LD's masseuse, but there is absolutely NO WAY LD in MLS is a negative. None. Your reasons for not wanting him in MLS are blatantly personal and seem to be denying basic MLS business reasons and facts. MLS is paying the same amount or more to a 32 year old Bolivian - where is your incessant preaching against this? LD is a 20 year old American. LD is exactly what MLS was built for - a young, talented American soccer player. My guess is most MLS fans don't give a rats ass about your reasons or maybe even know LD is owned by Team Aspirin - all they know is he is a damn good player and scored a couple goals on a US Team that went to the World Cup Quarterfinals. You repeated yourself here, probably for effect, but again LD is the best young talent in the area. And it didn't prevent them from signing that Eskandarian kid or Gbandi the year before and whoever else. Having LD in the league helps attract those kids to MLS, see Twellman, Taylor. Tell that to the NBA (Bird, Magic, Jordan) Tell that to NHL (Gretzky) Tell that to MLB (McGuire, Sosa, Ripken) Says you. It doesn't belittle me. Actually I have more respect for MLS now that they went the distance to keep him. And many of my non-season tiocket holder friends who come to games with me will be glad to hear they will be able to see him play again next season. To who? Are you insinuating that keeping LD in MLS reduces the talent level in the league? That he is a below average player? Is nightmare your word or his? I have read he said he was unhappy. Being a 20 year old in a middle American college is a much different thing than being a 20 year old in a foreign country surrounded by people who don't speak your language, thousands of miles from friends and family, with players who are rooting against you, indifferent fans and feeling like you are not getting a fair shot at playing time. Wrong. I have never heard him say it was too hard, he has said he didn't like it. What he and Twellman have done is set a precedent that if you are a young talented American player and you don't like your Euro situation, you will get a fair shot with MLS. Says you. It surely hasn't hurt his development so far and Bruce Arena seems to be okay with it and I consider him a far superior judge of player devlopment than myself or you. Now you're getting silly. No one gets to the MLS level or World Cup level without pushing themselves to the limit. Perhaps he is trying to help bring up the level of play. Give me one concrete example where LD brings down the US talent pool. Just one. Whose spot is he taking? Another 21 year old player. A 20 year old player? If you want to bitch - bith at Cienfuegos or Harkes or Balboa - those guys ar etkaing the spot of young American players. LD is a yooung American player - whose spot is he taking? What in Gods name are you talkng about? What dots? Is MLS conspiring against itself to keep the level of play down? You lost me man, And you tire me out.
jmeissen0 And LANDON DONOVAN is as close to MLS gets to having a Big-Time player. Staying put in MLS is what Landon wants, not just money and notariety like some (See Many who've gone to Europe). Landon is awesome! He is making a name for himself where it counts most to him--here in the USA! Plus, if you've lived in Germany like I have (lived there for 3 years while in the Air Force), you'd know that a Californian feels out of place, let alone the fact that he wouldn't be playing because of the arrogant moronic coaches they have there. It is truly a great decision and one that will help MLS to promote this growing league. BTW, Landon put quite a few butts in the seats when the Quakes were last here in Dallas. Like the poster from DC, we had lots of young teenage girls at the game just to SEE HIM! I even heard some of them sitting behind me talking about him and how they thought he was Hot! That is good for Landon and good for MLS. You can keep up your campaign about why he should've gone back and you can throw out any assortment of facts and figures, but the one you can't even begin to know is how LANDON feels and what he wants in life. Let the kid play here and enjoy every minute of it! He WILL be the future FIFA player of the year in the next couple of years--you heard it here first!
Re: jmeissen0 And LANDON it's honestly posts such as this that should be telling you what you need to know about which side you should be on absolutely no idea, rambling blind and yet offering up similar reasons to what others have said scary, eh? and for the billionth time, people did not come to the game because donovan was there... the mls teams put extra marketing into the game, pushed group tickets for those games, etc. mls pushed to make it appear that there was hype surrounding donovan it's the argument of the chicken and the egg and which came first and it's kinda obvious that donovan didn't come first... his face has been pushed more than michael jackson's mug has been altered... san jose's attendance is STILL atrocious, especially when you consider that donovan is the saving grace of mls and it all goes back to the idea that mls can turn anyone into it's poster boy... because the hype you see at the games is created by mls, meaning it can be done for an edson buddle
Let's see, market the 20-year-old who has made a name for himself at the world's greatest event? or go with the guys who have distinguished themselves at the u-20 level? Hmmmmm...... Twellman doesn't capture the limelight like LD does simply b/c he's only really proven himself in MLS. That's not to say the league can't market him, but they'll accomplish far more if they use a World Cup star in ad campaigns. Big difference: Those track stars made names for themselves at that puny quadrennial event known as the Olympics. Americans love the Olympics. Not sure the Bundesliga holds the same place in the hearts of the universal American sports fan. Something tells me the average kid will get more excitement out of following a U.S. star in MLS than they would trying to follow that same player on a team thousands of miles a way and whose matches only get shown on cable or satellite tv a few times a year. But the future is oh-so bright when MLS starts investing in keeping bright young U.S. players in the league. That fosters competition, improves the level of play, and creates names that the league can then market. Otherwise, we end up with promising youngsters playing for one or two seasons and then taking off, leaving behind the Albrights and the Tremblys to try and get fans excited about MLS. What message does that send? that MLS will never cut it for the best and that it's never going to be anything better than a league for the mediocre, the super young, and the super old.
not quite true... silver boot/ball/whatever at u-20 world championships and when donovan came over here... he was pretty much just a u-something player (very heralded though), who had just turned old enough to get first team action with leverkusen and who had gotten the golden thingy at the u-17 worlds plus people watch golf and tennis in europe all the time it doesn't matter where... just that it's the best and it's americans
No, it's not scary, it's just a post. As meaningful as any other on this thread, believe me... Jim, and hopefully this will be the last I'll say on the matter... ...I just don't think it's the Apocalypse of U.S. Soccer like you seem to. As a fan, I'm happy he'll be around. I don't think he's the Savior and never have. MLS is imperfect but is doing the best it can. Hopefully it won't overdo with the Donovan hype and more importantly, hopefully the kid will be able to live with it. That part ain't easy. I know everyone thinks Germany is so much tougher but being in MLS/America with so much expected won't be easy either. The chips will fall where they may. There may be a lot of up and coming young soccer players, but theyre no Donovans. (or Beasleys.) Not even close. Not yet anyway. Did you see the U-20s in Qulaifying? I saw one game. Pretty bad stuff. There's still A LOT of work to do. Whatever, sorry to ramble... btw, an MLS official was quoted as saying they would "break even" on the deal with the Aspirins, so besides his contract, in the 350-400K range, he's not costing them anything "extra". Considering all the extra revenue he generates in shirts or whatever (including tix), it's not such an expensive proposition. But we've partially had that discussion before...
trey is dead on about getting our youth to not go over first (well to counter euro offers with real money), but there is also the fact of the matter that if you are more than the league... that's not good as well it will never be harvest time... it's just an ebb and flow... with the focus on moving players so that they increase their level (in turn the US level, with it the media, etc.) and mls can reinvest back into itself the current mantra is all about stopping the evolution... you can only go so far by keeping your players in one league... look at mexico (please do, they love the game, but are limiting themselves)
I'm with Jim and Segroves on this thing. I think the people who support Landon didn't get weened until they were much older. Jim, Segroves and I probably set out away from the nest a lot sooner than some of the sugar babies we've got on here. To us, LD is a pu$$y because when he doesn't get his way, he whines and cries and complains(even publicly to the media) until he gets what he wants. I think a lot of pro athletes are pu$$ies, and the guys who sympathize with LD always try and chalk it up to some kind of strange jealousy. I guess they're babies too, so it's no surprise. Some of you guys REALLY, REALLY overrate MLS also. The league has made such a great commitment to youth development, yet where are the reserve/ U17 teams at? It's been posted time and time again, but somehow MLS doesn't see the writing on the wall----starting youth/reserve teams is the ONLY WAY TO BECOME A TOP FLIGHT LEAGUE. It was so painfully obvious to the most astute observers that Landon was coasting after the WC and that Mathis wasn't being pushed either. Let's hope our players don't get the Mexican syndrome of getting too comfortable at home. Thankfully, Europe still pays better. I HOPE that this all works out--for Landon, for MLS and for the nats. I've got my doubts, however, and Jim's list about the negatives are spot on. Let's just hope that our youth don't get this wild hair up their arse and think that Europe isn't where the best players play.
i don't think it's the apocalypse, just a bad precedent(ce?) that the league is going to seriously have to work hard to beat everything about our youth system needs work (anything always needs work), but more and more are being found... popping up, more evolutions are being made in how our youth system is run, resulting in more players being found we aren't that far off from considering a second bradenton, to needing it donovan and beasley are good players... i just don't think either are world beaters, sure... they will be able to compete for roles on great teams throughout the world, but they won't be STARS so going with that thinking, there are more players of the caliber of these two in our country, and they are close at hand... there should even be a couple that will be better as for the mls official... did he say anything about the pig being cleared by the FAA? i wouldn't want the air force shooting it down
Just imagine, now perhaps Donovan can be promoted and marketed as much as Mia Hamm, thus giving MLS the kind of boost in national recognition and prestige she has given WUSA.
I never said that the G's completely outplayed SJ, those games were always close and for the last 2 years, the two teams have brought out the best in each other. As for missed PK's against LD - - - Gimme a f'''en break, he dives so often and so dramatically that the refs have trouble knowing the difference between a real foul and his childish antics.... unlike Fish, who never embellishes - - his antics are "gamesmanship".... Topper
Maybe because it's an oversimplification, just like most of this Landon and MLS are better off if he leaves talk.
Don't know if this has been posted already, but LD's decision was on CNN's ticker this evening under the heading "Soccer Star Stays." Interesting that they though this was important enough to scroll constantly for a while.
jmeissen...how would you account for competitive factors? I mean, I don't see a whole lot of discussion of how Landon might help his team win. At some level, this deal was about a team that asked MLS to retain the services of a player whom they thought would help them win.
I'm sure you're in the know about how much the league has spent on foreign players that have been busts.....do you have any idea how much money Leverkusen screwed MLS out of? They're in dire need of difference makers right now, which probably drove their asking price up quite a bit. I'm not so sure that Landon can be marketed like Mia---she was a WC champion after all. He was a pretty good player on the 8th place team.
what I like about this thread is that the same people are wicked angry that donovan's potential is vastly overestimated by his fans on the one hand, yet they believe that a 20-year old who made the top 11 or top 20 lists of many commentators after the wc has some amazing amount of still untapped talent. people who can handle cognitive dissonance that strong can't be argued with. this is like a religious faith for segroves and meissen. if donovan scores 11 in the next world cup, including one from his own half like the shots that pele and reyna launched and missed, creates seven more, bicycles two or three off the american goal line, and dons the keeper shirt to save a few penalties, these guys will still be arguing that he might have had the stamina to man-mark the brazilian forward himself in the final if he had just gone through that grueling leverkusen training regimen. besides, at his level, differences in performance are mostly caused by loss of confidence disrupting your snap decisions. better to play at a high level somewhere where he's comfortable than run off to a slightly higher level where you hate life. it's not like he turned into a drunken playboy like mathis. the kid seems to have a good head on his shoulders and he's developing just fine, thank you. you guys need to come come up with a logical position or shut the f*** up.
Do you? BL knows they will never have this player on their team again. Ever. How many people understand what its like to be a 16 yr. old American soccer player in Germany? So many people can't even decide about their own lives, but yet they know exactly what Landon should do. I'm not sure I'll hear anything more absurd......although I do read alot of posts. MLS=American Soocer League Good Players=Stronger League Did someone forget that the main reason our league started is because the goal was develop American soccer players? And oh, let's tell players who want to play in MLS to screw. That's a good idea.
I'm not going to bother looking at this from Bruce Arena's point of view, or Don Garber's POV, or LD's POV. I look at it from mine. I am a fan of soccer. I watch MLS, college, youth, men's and women's. I coach and play pick up ball. Today I found out I get to watch a very talented, exciting soccer player work his magic on the field week in and week out for two more years. Even moreso, I will get to do this with my 10 year old son. LD has already given me some great soccer memories, and now I know there will be more. Tonight I'm going to sleep with a smile on my face.