Landon Donovan doesn't get the respect he's earned from U.S. fans on Bigsoccer

Sure, and on that level it is great to have as many stars at home as the league can hold. But the level of MLS - whether it's Simon Elliot and Saun Bartlett and Brian West and Hurtado and loads of other players - is currently high enough for the Bocas and Califfs to take their game to a level that allows them to move on and make room for the next generation to get first team play. But at the end of the day what BruceS says - that the USMNT will be best if all the best Americans come back - is just wrong, for myriad reasons:

First, it is impossible. MLS can't come close to paying competitive wages for the entire crew of Reyna, DMB, Gooch, KK, Brad, Marcus, Lewis, Gibbs, Berhalter, Boca, Dolo, Casey, McBride, Spector, Simek, Whitbred, Karby, Demerit, West etc. etc. etc.

Second, if all those players come back, there will less space for young up an comers to play on MLS teams. Adu and Grabavoy and Gomez and whoever else might be the next up and comer will find it near impossible to get meaningful time. We have no Cola league. The drop in quality (and pay) from MLS to USL or College is too great to sustain a "developing professional" class. You will end up losing much of that generation to the Bund2 or Scandi leagues.

Third, it's just wrong that decreasing competition will make a player, and ulitimately the USMNT team better. It makes no sense. Not that everyone MUST leave, but what is best for a team is for all players to find their best situations, be it LD in SoCal where he is happy, or McBride in London testing his noggin' against national team CD's from across Europe, or DMB in Phillipsburg pushing and/or being pushed by Farfan for precious minutes in Europe or Bennie in Hamburg watching van der Vaart do a few things that even LD might not.

It is better for KK to be facing Klose rather than Ruiz going into the WC cycle and it is likely better for LD to be leading the Gals rather than sitting on BL's bench before the WC.

Again, I have nothing against the MLS, I'm a day one ticket holder. But being a fan doesn't mean you have to go brain dead.

 

I don't know why MLS would stand out as being the only league where one player couldn't lift it up. It happened in the early NBA with George Mikan, and later Michael Jordan. Red Grange in the NFL. Gordie Howe in the NHL. Mia Hamm with the WUSA. Leagues both below us and above have seen this effect, so why not MLS?

Yours doesn't match most people historically. Most folks like to see dominance.

Do I think Landon might be better had he stayed in Germany? Most likely so (look at McBride and Convey). But I think the league gains more than the NT loses. In the long run, he's probably doing the sport in this country a favor. This is especially true if he goes to Germany and is effective, whereupon he can return to the US and give MLS the most marketable young player it's ever had (long term).

 

Ummmm... Your particular post may have been a joke, but...
1. I didn't even criticise your post, I just used it as an example of the kind of personal stuff people tend to say about LD.
2. Did I say LD can do no wrong? I simply tried to explain why I think people tend to dis LD. I tried to do this by bringing some concrete information to the arguement.

 

Once again, I remember that quote as well, and if you had a link to it we could debate it more concretely. My recollection is that the context of that quote was sort of "I was really pumped up and pissed off at the fans which made me play better, maybe that will teach them to shut up." Once again, I don't see how that implies that they owe him anything.

Once again, the gist of your arguement is reason number 4 that I cited for him staying at BL: He needs to be a man.

Can some postmodernist on the boards please explain about the social construction of cultural values such as this?

 

Yeah it definitely would be extremely difficult to bring a lot of great players over here , due to money issues and things like that , I just think it would be great if we could have a very strong domestic league , that can get the kind of exposure the EPL does , and we can get full stadiums for every match. I know I'm being extremely optimistic , and there's no way any of this can happen within the next couple of decades ,or even longer , but I'm not going to critisize LD for coming home and aspiring to make MLS better. I respect his decision.

 

no you are.

We believe!!!!

 

This might be a debate best left for another thread, but:

First, I don't think anyone's advocating a mass migration here...
Just having some of those guys (no specific number) come back to MLS at the tail end (last year or two) of their careers to pass on what they learned abroad before they retire...
If McBride comes back to the US when he's done in England, why not play a year or two at the Fire?
If the northwest gets a franchise (finally) by the time Keller's ready to call it quits, why not help out the new franchise for a year or two?
And it would be effing awesome to see Claudio Reyna play in MLS...
You see where I'm going...
As far as salaries go, they wouldn't be expecting competetive salaries anyway.
Whatever they get would be more honorarium than salary.

In this 'model', it's OK if kids go to Europe first, because that's the destination anyways. MLS would be more of a starter's school for those that aren't good enough or lucky enough to go straight there.
I can see that being an argument against it, if you're worried about MLS missing out on transfer fees, etc. But not everyone would or even should want to go to Europe anyway. (Isn't that what this thread is about? )
For those that remain, there would only be a few YAs taking up roster spots at any one time. There are also the reserve teams to provide exactly this function. Not to mention expansion...

Again, I'm talking about guys that have already "been there, done that, where's my slippers Nancy?"
Guys that are at or near retirement... Brad Friedel. Not Benny Fielhaber.
In particular, I think McBride, Reyna, and Keller would be fantastic to have around (in a few years yet). Any young kid could learn so much from those three guys, and that can only help us in the long run...

No, but it does mean you get to, if you like...

 

1. How??? By bringing you guys the two MLS Cups after years of aspiring to mediocrity?
2. Don't you mean Houston Republic FC fans?
3. If there were more than 10,000 E-quake fans, they'd still be the E-quakes.

 

The Landon haters have referred to this a number of times. But in keeping with the main thesis of this thread, they can't bring themselves to tell the whole truth about what happened. I've noticed something...the Landon haters, when discussing Landon, are essentially dishonest people. They don't tell the whole truth. They pick the data points that support their position, and ignore the rest.

In general, the Landon supporters are people who acknowledge the good AND the bad.

 

Re: Landon Donovan threads go over the top several different ways

Google "World Cup 2002."

 

The point is, he DID earn his minutes, but the coach didn't reward him.

In particular, even before the 2nd 'Pool match, it was clear Landon was being set up to fail. Many here commented on it before the match. And then when the whole team played terribly, the coach scapegoated Landon with a first half substitution. Landon was probably a pawn in a front office-coach feud. Whatever, he was NOT treated fairly.

Now, I acknowledge, he only endured, what, 10 weeks of that? 8? He had a hair-trigger on his escape hatch. But it's plain that he had reason to feel BL hadn't treated him right.

 

Good for you.

The fact that Landon is and has always been a better player for the Nats than either of them earns more respect from me.

 

So? What's the value of that?

Alot of the Landon divide comes down to this. Some people care about this (why, I don't know) and some people don't.

 

We're not really debating (you and I) I was answering bruces' call for all the best US players to be in MLS - which, as I noted, I think is silly and impossible both.

I'm fine with guys come here for the end of their careers if they want, although I prefer the Ajax model - young, cheap and hungry. The reason for kids not to go straight to europe is they are more likely to sit. There is protection for US players in MLS (max foreign restrictions) that give them a better chance of meaningful time on the field.

The big thing MLS needs to do is increase the quality of it's coaching and structure. The better the coaching, training etc. the better quality of USMNT next generation we're going to have.

 

This is what I think is interesting.

First of all let me clarify...Landon Donovan is my favorite american player.

Second, when Freddy Adu complained about earning minutes but not getting them, what was the reaction on this website ( I wasn't around). I know that the media made him look like a whiner. Fortunately, he wasn't granted a contract release or anything...because he is young, we all perceive his complaining was stupid, selfish and immature.

Landon Donovan's reason for leaving BL is basically the same...earned minutes, didn't get them...so he left to where he'd be more happy.

Hmmm.

I'm not complaining at ALL about LD. I'm glad he's in the MLS because I can watch him more often, I just noticed the discrepancy with the Freddy Adu situation..someone care to elaborate?

 

Oy vey...

Can someone please find a way to drag a few more hot button topics into this thread?

 

While you're here, and living in Dallas at that, why not get out to some matches and help us get better? You might even get to enjoy MLS. If you already do go to see FC Dallas, pardon me for assuming that you have no interest in our domestic leagues, and thank you for your support.

 

I attend nearly all FC Dallas games and all International games played in this area. (and I buy my own ticket)

 

Especially when he is beating up on the minnows of Concacaf.

Ofcourse, its all opinion. If you think Donovan is a great player for racking up goals and assist against Panama, and Costa Rica then thats you. If someone else thinks that DMB is a great player because he is proved himself on the biggest club stage, and led his team in goals, then thats them.

 

All i dont know about all this conspiracy stuff your talking about, but the fact remains, he did get his chance. He didnt make the most of it.

How exactly do you know he earned his minutes? You saw what went on during training? When you get a chance to start against one of the biggest teams in the world you make the most of it.

Your making it seem as if they never liked him, and set him up to fail? How is that? How wasnt he treated fairly? Look at other players. They dont always come in and start right away. You play well in games, and you get respect.

Ill always say this till i get a reasonable counter.... Look at Bobbey Convey who wasnt even on the subs bench, but look at him now?

 

Exactly, you dont see him running back to Mexico.

 

....and I imagine it's a hell of a lot tougher for a Mexican playing in Bolton than it was for Landycakes playing at Beyer Neverkusen....

 

If Donovan, didnt want to go, why didnt he just tell them from the begining he didnt want to play for them? They would have sold his rights back to MLS.

There is no excuse, we all wanted to see Donovan against the big boys, and most of us kept track of him, only to see him give up. If his goal to make US Soccer bigger and stronger, he didnt go about the right way. USA doesnt need him in terms of Marketing, they have Freddy Adu, and others. Soon they start to hype up Fro Adu, and there. But anyway...

Donovan, is a great player, no one is doubting that, but he is never going to get the respect you want him to.