Kurt Warner to RETIRE

Discussion in 'Football' started by REALfootballRulez, Jan 27, 2010.

  1. REALfootballRulez

    May 25, 2007
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's too bad. He was one of the best QBs in the league to watch only next to Favre, Brady, and Manning but to those who follow more of the NFC Warner is probably best to watch next to Favre.

    He toned down his bible thumping this year and that was widely rumored to be one of the reasons that caused his rift with Mike Martz in St.Louis.

    I was VERY surprised how the Cardinals got destroyed by the Saints after having such an offensive explosion against the Pack.

    I would have much rather seen Warner against the Vikes instead of that overrated midget Brees.

    Hope I'm wrong and Warner won't retire on Friday but it looks 99% that he will.
     
  2. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    not surprising.
    now let the debate begin - hall of famer or not?
     
  3. REALfootballRulez

    May 25, 2007
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was firmly against it before he took the Cards to the Super Bowl against the Steelers in a game they almost won.

    He's got 32,344 career yards and that may not be quite enough for hall of fame career like Montana, Elway, Marino, etc. but then again Warner had the 3 BIGGEST passing games in Super Bowl history so THAT could get him in.

    Most likely he probably gets in since he was amazing when he was at his best.
     
  4. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No.

    Personally, I think he's one of the most overrated QBs in NFL history.
     
  5. lkgf09

    lkgf09 Member

    Jun 7, 2004
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think he should be a lock for the HOF. His time St. Louis and the last couple of years in Arizona were amazing. He also played the best when it counted the most - the playoffs and the three great Super Bowl performances. If Arizona won last year, I don't think there would be a debate.
     
  6. REALfootballRulez

    May 25, 2007
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All of what you mentioned will probably get him in the HOF.

    People forget that after those 3 great years in St.Louis he was a comedy of errors and every game he played in he either fumbled the ball away or threw picks.

    That's why people thought he was done when he went to the Giants but he had an amazing revival.

    People forget he was so bad in St.Louis for a while that Marc Bulger replaced him and Warner was benched.

    Warner was benched at least 2 or 3 times in his NFL career but that probably won't make a difference for the HOF.
     
  7. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    true, but wasn't he battling hand injuries? I recally he had thumb injuries that made it difficult for him to hold on to the ball. I think if he gets in, it will be because of just how good he was, when he was at his best - and the fact that he was able to make such a comeback in Arizona will definitely help. I think he will get in.
     
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He had a very syncopated career, which is pretty unusual in football. You see it more in baseball. For example, Dave Parker was great in the late 70s, then decided to be a cokehead for a few seasons, then was great again for the Reds. Alot of pitchers have careers like this due to the extreme stress pitching puts on the arm; there are guys who are good when they're healthy and bad when they're not. Catchers are like this alot; both Johnny Bench and Roy Campanella had a habit of alternating MVP or near-MVP seasons with "meh" seasons.

    The type of voter who is extremely impressed with big game performance will vote for him, and the type of voter who is more impressed by sustained excellence will not.

    I'm going to throw a name out there...Jim Plunkett. He broke into the league and turned a then-laughinstock Patriot team into a decent team. He was very good at the time. Then he was not so good and got replaced (IIRC.) Then he got shipped to Oakland and won two Super Bowls. His career is the closest corollary to Warner's I can think of. He's not in. But Plunkett was never a league MVP, either.
     
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a mentality that has, in my view, really, really grown in the "ESPN pundit" era. Those guys like to try to end an argument by talking about rings. But nobody thinks Buddy Biancalana was a better player than Ernie Banks, or that Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino. It's a stupid line of argument when it's supposed to be an argument-ender, rather than a supplement.

    Anyway, Warner was in 3 great, great Super Bowls, 3 games that could have gone either way. In my view, it was close to random luck in all 3 games. If he had gone 3-0 he'd be in, and if he'd gone 0-3 he wouldn't be in the discussion. All that would be different is his luck.
     
  10. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    another interesting take on the sustained career vs. short brilliant career debate is the HOF debate on Curtis Marting and Edgerin James, vs. someone like Terell Davis.
    Does TD get in with 2 Superbowls - that he was a substantial part of? I mean when he was at the top of his game for those 3-4 years, he dominated the game like no other running back. but his career was short. meanwhile, what about the sustained excellence of someone like Martin, with over 14K career yards? is that just being a decent RB, and having the good fortune of not getting injured? which one deserves the HOF?
     
  11. REALfootballRulez

    May 25, 2007
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, he did break several of his fingers or even his thumb BUT everytime he was asked if his hand was a problem he ALWAYS denied it. He never said his hands hand anything to do with all those fumbles and picks he threw years ago.

    You can say he was lying but as a Christian he's not supposed to lie right? LOL
     
  12. REALfootballRulez

    May 25, 2007
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you know Jim Plunkett is the ONLY QB to win 2 Superbowls but NOT be in the HOF?

    He was fantastic in those Super Bowl wins so he should get in albeit barely.
     
  13. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know if he actually denied it, but I guess it's team policy to keep specific injuries under wraps during the season.
     
  14. Dave Brull

    Dave Brull Member

    Mar 9, 2001
    Mayfield Hts, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see where you are coming from, but he was injured for about 1/3 of his career which was only 10 years. When he was on (1999-01, 07-09), he was clearly one of the best in the league and his post-season numbers are ridiculous.

    Being from St Louis originally, that 1999 season was just magic. Coming off maybe a 4-12 season, starting Qb goes down in the pre-season. The rest of the season was just unbelievable. Every time he went back to pass, you knew something special was going to happen.

    It's too bad he couldn't stay uninjured past 2001. That team could've been quasi-dynastic. Instead the Patriots took what the Rams could've had.
     
  15. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Hardly matters if he denied it-- anyone who really watched could see it...

    Not so much in the fumbles as in the delivery-- in the late Rams, entire Giant and early Cardinals time the ball was just rolling out of his hand, lacking zip and soaring a little. For the last couple of years he has looked like the super bowl Rams passer again...

    As for Jim Plunkett, I was always a fan, but...

    He lost his job to Steve Grogan when the Pats decided they weren't going to be able to pass protect and might as well run the ball instead. (He was already all busted up at the time, and his arm was never the same after the first 10 or 12 games there.)

    The 49ers released him in favor of Steve DeBerg.

    He won his super bowls as the number 2 for Oakland-- he first failed to beat out Dan Pastorini, then Marc Wilson, becoming the starter when each was injured. Even after the two wins he neither retained the job nor his health on a consistent basis.

    He was one of the very few quarterbacks I ever felt were 100% game ready on arrival (Marino, Joe Ferguson), and he never got gunshy like David Carr say, but he was physically in the last quarter of his career by his second or third year... if he's a Hall of Famer I'd like to make a case for Dino Hackett.
     
  16. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just thought of another name...Craig Morton. Won one SB, lost another. Lost his job to Staubach. His career was partly before my time, and partly in the deepest, darkest remnants of my memory. My sense is that Warner has a hell of alot better resume.
    I've thought off and on about Plunkett being a #1 draft choice, winning the SB twice, and not being in. But I'd never systematically thought about him being the only two time winner not in.

    I'm guessing Phil Simms doesn't count because in the 1990-1 season, he got hurt and Jeff Hostettler started the SB.
    My sense is that you're overstating a bit the tenousness of his status in Oakland. But I wasn't a Raiders fan as a kid, and, obviously, sports media were far less pervasive then. So you're probably right. ;)
     
  17. REALfootballRulez

    May 25, 2007
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes he denied it several times on video and audio & I've seen and heard him deny it.
     
  18. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    bad christian!!!
     
  19. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

    Barcelona
    Dec 15, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    That's Brett Favre.
     
  20. REALfootballRulez

    May 25, 2007
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's the most prolific QB in the history of the league so HOW is that overrated??

    He's not the best of all time but he's right up there. Even Terry Bradshaw said he's the greatest ever in the pre-game show of the NFC Championship.

    You may think Bradshaw is a dork BUT he's a 4 time Super Bowl winning QB and he DOES know football.
     
  21. SportsGuru

    SportsGuru New Member

    Nov 30, 2009
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I heard it too.
     
  22. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

    Barcelona
    Dec 15, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    He only has one Super Bowl ring, his teams are 2/5 in NFC Championships, and he is a choker (as evidenced by his last two postseasons). He wasn't even the MVP of the Super Bowl the Packers won in '96.

    The interceptions too ;). He finished a season with as many or more interceptions than touchdown passes 5 times in his career.

    This thread isn't about Favre though :)
     
  23. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Has only. Has only.

    Sorry, but this is one of maybe five things that really bugs me when I see it in print. Carry on...
     
  24. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

    Barcelona
    Dec 15, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I don't come to BS to have my posts graded for grammer :p
     
  25. REALfootballRulez

    May 25, 2007
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After Warner's sermon today maybe he should be inducted into the Vatican instead of the HOF. :D
     

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