Kreis Out ??

Discussion in 'FC Dallas' started by 3rd Degree, Oct 23, 2004.

  1. 3rd Degree

    3rd Degree Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. Viking64

    Viking64 Member

    Feb 11, 1999
    Tarheel State
    My speculation is that they need copy to fill the page, and since anyone who reads the boards, or 3rd Degree, or looks at the Burn season has to wonder "is Kreis gone?" Just by writing it, they generate talk that is not me screaming "Greg Elliot, pick up the white paging phone, you owe us an explanation that does not start with 'in the new Frisco entertainment complex'."

    The issue to me is not whether he's on the team. The issue to me is can the Burn sign a MILLION DOLLAR FOREIGN PLAYER ALLOCATION. If they can keep him, AND sign the MILLION DOLLAR FOREIGN PLAYER ALLOCATION then fine, he can stay. But HE, JASON KREIS, is not pulling his weight on this team in goal production, and he was given an entire season to do just that. Either he takes another pay cut just to keep his job, or his can is gone.

    Dave Dir made the playoffs every year he was coach, and he didn't not get to stay. Kreis is going to see more bench time next year than he did this year. If he's willing to take the third or fourth string forward super sub position, well that's fine by me. But he'll be making 50k to do it, not whatever he's making now.

    Soccer and sentimentality are not compatible.
  3. Brushes Sand

    Brushes Sand Member

    Oct 12, 2000
    ...interesting timing on the article, eh Buzz?? I have to bring Nhlecko
    in to the discussion here, because resource-spend at forward is a huge
    part of the hotstove equation....

    1. I would like to see Nhlecko production comparied to Kreis production....
    minutes per dollar, points per minute per dollar, cost of each goal.

    2. Nhlecko often came in late against tired defenses... Kreis oftened
    played the entire game. Who had the harder time of it delivering
    their goals?

    3. I believe we never got more than 50% of the possession, creation
    and service that we needed out of the A-Mid, and never got more than
    25% of what we needed out of the left mid. Did this vacuum in midfield
    contribute at all to Kreis' subpar season? Did it contribute to Nhlecko's?

    4. Toni obviously has one option where he can play: Striker.
    Jason can play defense, and I believe (with certainty) that he would
    embrace the role. You may think i'm nuts, but again, with certainty,
    i believe he would embrace the role. Rhine to right back makes a lot
    of sense, but Rhine is also a quasi-effective wingmid. If Kreis would
    restructure to $100k and play right back, does that make sense?
    Ignore the money for a second, we know GE and CC don't spend
    coin at outside back, but how often can you get someone with
    Kreis' field vision and ability to provide service..., long, precision service,
    to play outside back? Farrer moved from the front to the back and
    doubled his lifespan in MLS. Who thinks Kreis would not far exceed
    Farrer's contribution in comparison? Kreis' speed of play, and the time
    he requires on the ball, are being affected by the increasing lethality
    of MLS defenses which are now closing down at speed after no more
    than one touch on the ball... but he is too good a soccer player to
    simply dismiss without evaluating his application elsewhere on the pitch.
    Have GE and CC had this conversation with Jason?

    5. Why should or could Kreis ask for and get $100k instead of the $50k
    that Viking suggests? Forget football for a second. HSG is going to have
    to do a massive push with only 3-4 months (december-march) in order
    to in effect make a 300% year-over-year gain. They want to average
    15k with 10k season seats. Whose face is HSG going to use for this
    Dehydrated Brand Build? "MLS All-Time Leading Goal Scorer" is going
    to mean 10x to the average Whitebread target customer. These people
    up north know jack about MLS. Ronnie O'Brien is the best player on the
    team right now, but he's not going to sell tickets. Eddie Johnson is
    the breakout SuperStar, but until they see him play, the people up north
    can't look at an ad campaign featuring grown-ass and have any idea
    who he is. "US National Team Member" is also basically useless when
    marketing to the Soccer Smiles crowd. Thanks to the Belo/Hansen
    embargo on Nats coverage, the casual observer in Collin County has
    no idea that the Nats even exist much less having to qualify for World Cup.

    Touting the new Stadium, one celebrating Burn Demise, the other
    the 2005 Southern Region Youth Championships, HSG has now
    purchased two full-page ads in the DaMN, one in the Sports Section
    that went to their entire circulation, and one in the Metro Section
    that was distributed only to the Collin County deliveries....

    My guess is those two expenditures cost many tens of thousands.

    In order to maximize Belo expenditure, HSG is going to have to use
    a Face and a Name to pair with pictures of the stadium.

    Jason has a card to play: he is HSG's only viable option RIGHT NOW
    because they have no time to build the brand. If HSG had renamed
    the Burn a year ago, and started the new brand campaign up north
    6 months ago, this caveat would not exist.

    But they didn't. Paying Jason an extra 30-50k over what a normal
    outside back gets is an incredible bargain for HSG off the field.
    They are going to have to buy 20 full-page ads in the DaMN.
    They have one option to increase the value of that expenditure 3-fold.
    The face and name of Jason Kreis, MLS All-Time Leading Goal Scorer.

    Remember, 90% of this 300% year-on-year gain has to come from
    the Soccer Smiles crowd. The "Marketing Ploy" of using "MLS All-Time
    Goal Scorer" as your tagline, for a player who is actually at right back
    on the field, will be completely lost on those who the ploy is used
    to lure in to spending money on tickets. The advantage of marketing
    to The Unwashed (Whitebread) Masses, is that you can get creative.

    WE want The Million Dollar Striker, and WE want The Half-Million #10.
    90% of the target market, the Soccer Smiles people, would have no
    idea who Kaka is until they watch him score a 20-minute natural hat.

    Given the above line of thinking, factoring on and off field considerations...

    Does HSG really want to risk leaving Kreis unprotected?

    Are they gambling that Checketts will pass?

    Is Jason under or out of contract right now?

    What effect does his current contract situation have
    with HSG if they protect him, and with Utah if he is unprotected?

    Many questions.

  4. BigNards

    BigNards Member

    Jul 18, 2004
    Interesting decisions to be made on both sides. I think if Jason had to choose between a $150k starting role somewhere else or a $50k backup role here, he'd chose to leave. But I like the idea of something in the middle so you can leverage his name recognition and start off with a local to help draw at the new stadium...not sure how he would react to playing in the back and taking a pay cut....interesting to speculate though.

    I think the longer term problem for the burn is how to put butts in seats. 2005 will probably be ok, just because of the draw of the new stadium and brand. I don't see a good model in place to sustain any increase in attendance beyond next year. IMO there are only a few ways to increase and sustain good attendance.

    1. WIN...Dallas loves a winner and more people will come if FCD wins
    2. Win back the hispanic fans. They like soccer, will come win or lose, but to win them back, we have to have more hispanic players. It would also help to have someone on the coaching staff and more people in the FO speak spanish.
    3. Corporate ticket sales...There are a lot of forturne 500 companies in Plano, Frisco, Allen, McKinney, N. Dallas. Shelling out $20-30k a year for them is no big deal. They could use them for customer/employee giveaways and even if you had a lot of first timers, it would be a revenue stream and the more people that get exposed to the game, the more chance you have to convert them into ReAL fans.
    4. Club and Soccer Association Sales...proven to give a once or twice a season pop to the numbers, but no significant staying power.

    I like the FCD sales guys, but they are all soccer nuts that got into sales as an extension to their soccer experience, not sales guys that like soccer. I think FCD needs to bring in a couple of heavy hitter sales guys and tell them to find a way to fill the seats. A mix of a few sales pro's and some soccer guys turned sales guys could work. Put the right incentive comp plan in place to support these guys and I think they could do magic.
  5. SoccerX

    SoccerX Member

    Dec 19, 2001
    Republic of Texas
    What planet did you fall from? :)

    I would make book that MORE people north of I-635 have a clue about MLS than any other area of Texas.

    Hell, we been a watchin future MLS'ers up nawth since they wuz in high school! Here's a few from "up north":

    Jason Thompson, Garland
    Brad Agoos, Richardson
    Jeff Agoos, Richardson
    Mark Dodd, Richardson
    If you want to limit "up north" to meaning ONLY Collin County:
    Nick Garcia, Plano
    Chad Deering, Plano
    Jordan Stone, Allen
    Of course really "up north" and a bit west includes Trophy Club, home to Phillip Salyer.

    There's more but I think you get my drift.

    Probably not. At least not in actual cash. The DMN being a marketing partner/sponsor of both the Burn/FCD and NTSSA more than likely "gives" X amount of ad space to these partners each year. So FCD isn't really writing a check for each ad you see- it's just deducted from their sponsorship.
  6. Pebkac

    Pebkac New Member

    Sep 23, 2004
    How do you think Jason would do in the midfield in front of Simo?
  7. 3rd Degree

    3rd Degree Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hate to break this to you but the anser is NO.

    The Adu Allocation is worth 400K at the very most, and probably closer to 300K. You can still get a nice player for that, but it ain't gonna be no Million Dollar player.
  8. 3rd Degree

    3rd Degree Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK I suppose.

    I would prefer a Pareja/Nunez combo to Kreis.
  9. Viking64

    Viking64 Member

    Feb 11, 1999
    Tarheel State
    I guess I disagree. HSG can do whatever the heck they want, and Garber can make up whatever story he wants to cover it up. He's done it for every other team that had the guts to buy big, he'll do it again. If HSG brings Rivaldo to this league (just for example), no one on the competition committee is going to tell him no. It is my job to make HSG see the TRUTH AS I SEE IT

    The Burn have two problems, er, FC Dallas does:

    almost no one comes to see them play

    they don't play very well right now, over half the time

    Both of those problems can be cured with 1 million dollars, and the draft picks and discovery picks and whatnot that they have on the table. In my world, FC Dallas cannot cure those two problems in a single year without spending a million dollars and a superstar. They can satsifice with less than half million, but satisficing won't pack in the fans to the level they are dreaming of, and they won't win games in a way that makes people want to come to see them play week after week.

    All the talk about "HSG will never do that" and "MLS salary cap makes it impossible" is just balderdash. But worse, it gives HSG the ability to say "MLS has successfully managed fan expectations, forcing them downward until all we have to spend is pocket change for fans to be happy."

    Well I am not happy with the level of play of the league, and I am furious at the level of play of the Burn. If they have not gotten the message yet, I have another six months to get it through their heads.
  10. theodore

    theodore Member

    Nov 7, 2003
    Quote/: Brushes Sand: Jason can play defense, and I believe (with certainty) that he would
    embrace the role. You may think i'm nuts: end Quote:

    Yes, I finally do agree with one of your posts. You are nuts. Even Jason's wife in her heart of hearts knows he is washed up. As for being a draw, think again. MLS is not a museum. It is a a young man's league. He has been Mr. Dallas Burn for years, but prolonging the tribute to father time will just diminish his stature. This year actually was maybe a year too much.
  11. 3rd Degree

    3rd Degree Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey call for it all you want, I was just trying to give you the info that I have gotten from different people

    This is Dallas and not LA or NY. And this is HSG.

    So I would not hold my breath if I were you.
    Want it all you want, hell I want it too.

    But I just don't think it will happen.
  12. Jambon

    Jambon Member

    Mar 3, 2000
    Austin, TX
    Unfortunately for Jason, the money needed to rebuild this team has to come from somewhere. I have been critical of CC for many things, but one thing I give him full credit for is going with speed and size at the forward position.

    As far as Brushes opinion that Jason is the only legitimate marketing attraction for FCD, I disagree. I think that it would be much more effective to use players who are making waves NOW, like EJ and Gibbs, than to focus on the past accomplishments of Kreis.

    Sorry Jason. The memories will always be fantastic, but your six figures of cap are desperately needed at other positions.
  13. The Vorpal Blade

    The Vorpal Blade New Member

    Jul 22, 2003
    I Have
    Time to look to the future. Jason has been the foundation of the Burn, but nothing lasts forever... Not the Burn, not the heydey of Jason Kreis. It's clear, sadly, that JK is done. So is the Burn, on to FC Dallas 96 and new blood.
  14. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is sad when the moment comes and you figure out a great player is no longer great. Kreis came back from an injury this year and struggled most of the year but the moment came when he lined up for a frre kick at the end of the San Jose game. This is just the sort of spot he had excelled in in the past. The whole season was on the line and it could have been pure majic but instead was just a sad moment. I hope FCD can find another free kick specialist like Jason because they sure did miss one this year. Maybe Kreis can keep rehabbing and still find some of the old magic but if this year is an indication, injury and father time have caught up to him.
  15. Chamo

    Chamo New Member

    Aug 9, 1999
    Ironically, despite missing the free-kick at the end. I thought Kreis played his best game of the year last week against SJ. He was working his tail off, applying pressure all over the field, and he served the ball to EJ on the first goal after making a hard run to get behind SJ defense.

    The question that has to be asked whether that performance meant he still has it, or was it a last hurrah?

    I would prefer another team figure it out unless they Dallas decides to get creative a la BS with ways of using Kreis.
  16. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    DC United
    From the Real Salt Lake Board on potential signings in the expansion draft:

    So is this confirmed or what you believe, Buzz?
  17. Viking64

    Viking64 Member

    Feb 11, 1999
    Tarheel State
    Please do not tell HSG that you think it won't happen. Please. That gives HSG carte blanche to sign joe nobody and try to spin him as the next best thing. HSG needs to understand that what the Dallas fans have been given to this point, is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Trotting out more broken and busted cast offs from heaven knows what corner of hades is not going to mean a 15K average next year.

    If we don't demand top quality soccer, we'll never get it.
  18. 3rd Degree

    3rd Degree Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it an on the recod statement I have form Clarke or Elliott?


    I am saying he won't be protected. That that as you would from what you know of me.
  19. burning247

    burning247 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    Sep 16, 2000
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    he did work his ass off but I don't see it as something he'll do all the time. He was very unproductive all season, and I think the combo of this being the last "Burn" game and possibly his last game in a Dallas jersey, he had that extra fight...
  20. ArsenalTexan3

    ArsenalTexan3 Member

    Sep 24, 2002
    Arsenal FC
    Hire him as a FO personal whose job is to do PR work. But keep him off the field.
  21. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    But he has gone on the record saying he still wants to play, I'm not so sure Jason is ready to hang up his boots just yet. Maybe if it allows him to stay in Dallas he would reconsider, but it seems like he still has the fire to me.
  22. Mrs.TexasArsenal

    Mrs.TexasArsenal New Member

    Aug 24, 2004
    Frisco, TX
    Someone said on Sunday that this situation will end up like the Emmitt Smith deal. I wish Jason would retire here but if he isn't ready to and is demanding a start then I think he would fit elsewhere.
  23. texgator

    texgator New Member

    Oct 28, 2003
    Does that mean Jason will call his ex-teammates garbage when he leaves?
  24. Mrs.TexasArsenal

    Mrs.TexasArsenal New Member

    Aug 24, 2004
    Frisco, TX
    I wouldn't put it past him. ;)
  25. drace768

    drace768 New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Dallas, TX
    One HUGE question no one is asking? Will Jason be better next year?

    Remember, Jason was having a good year in '03 before he tore his ACL. ACL tears take at least a year before you feel normal again, I know I have torn both of mine. Players frequently have a down year after coming back from an ACL reconstruction and remember Jason had some complications during his rehab.

    I am not saying that Jason will or will not come back to his old form, especially since he is on the wrong side of 30. However, I would not evaluate him only on this years form. I am guessing he will be a better player next year, the question is, how much better?

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