Korean players playing abroad weakened NT?

Discussion in 'Korea' started by rkim291968, Oct 23, 2004.

  1. rkim291968

    rkim291968 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    CA, USA
    More Korean players are playing abraod since their success of WC02. Many have hoped that it will help Korean players to improve and eventually strengthen NT. Strangely, exactly the opposite have happened. I can think of many reasons why which I will list below. What do others think?

    - Foreign based players (FBP) with big conctracts will not play hard for NT.
    - NT cannot train extended time together because FBPs obligation to their teams.
    - FBPs have not improved much despite playing in Germany, Holland, Japan, etc..
    - FBPs aren't much better than K-League based players but NT keep starting most of them match after match despite the 3 points I've made above.
     
  2. yimmy

    yimmy Moderator

    Aug 23, 2004
    California
    Maybe in a friendly, but when it really counts, don't you think they'll give it all they've got?

    Hmm, South American teams must have tons of FBPs. I wonder if Korea can follow from their example???

    *sigh*, I don't have any chances to see how well/poorly they're playing these days, so I rely on all the other posters to keep me informed.
     
  3. rkim291968

    rkim291968 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    CA, USA
    I think they do. But in Anh's example, he's trying too hard. That is, he wants to score so hard that he may not pass to another player in better position to score. So, giving all they got may not be translating into best "team" effort.

    They have better individual skills and can overcome teamwork better than Koreans can - this is very IMO. Also, they have been sending their players abroad in mass longer than Koreans so they may have evolved toward better system. So, IMO, it will take a while for Koreans to follow their example.
     
  4. buggy

    buggy New Member

    Aug 11, 2004
    Hi RKIM! I think I may be stalking you..;)

    Two overriding themes seem to peek out here --
    Growing Pains
    Crutch-using mentality

    You're completely right that the NT have been weakened from this. But I don't think it's a weakness that cannot be overcome, and I think it's rough but necessary road to go through for the future. If Korea can get past these new post-2002 problems, they will be stronger than ever. There's more I can say to respond (having followed with interest news articles about these Korean and Japanese players who have been playing abroad), but since this is a Korea thread, I'm interested in hearing what Korea supporters think...
     
  5. toohyper

    toohyper Member+

    Mar 23, 2004
    MI/NJ/NY
    Club:
    Gwangju FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Well think of it this way, if korean players don't go to europe to play, then they will never get much better and will never catch up to the european/south american level of game. Playing in Europe can enhance a player's ability but ur right, it also destroys some NT chemistry.

    If we do somewhat make the WC 06, i expect Park Ji Sung, and other FBPs to play well.

    And sorry to say, even if i believe Cha Doo Ri shouldn't be on the NT, he should be on 06 Squad. Germany is like 2nd home to him afterall...
     
  6. junjunforever

    junjunforever Member

    Feb 18, 2002
    i personally think players themselves are more important then the NT. So i say let the players do whatever they want to do. Go to europe, japan, make more money etc.

    However, i think the main argument here is weak. It reminds me about the fact that Cha bum keun almost didnt make it to the World Cup in 86 (i think) because the coach thought having a star player will be bad for the team in general.
     
  7. Holyjoe

    Holyjoe Member

    Jul 15, 2003
    ROK/SCO
    Most of Korea's international matches will fall in the same international match window as European countries, so they'll pretty much always be available to travel back to Korea for World Cup qualifying.
     
  8. rkim291968

    rkim291968 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    CA, USA
    True. But in old days when there weren't too many foreign based Korean players, KFA routinely started training for important events for more than 5 - 6 days.
     
  9. rkim291968

    rkim291968 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    CA, USA
    This is what I have read in Korean media.

    Song has not played for two games. It was coach's decision. It appears he is becoming more expandable. Coach is citing communication problem with Song.

    Seol, Cha, Lee CS have been playing but have not scored for a while - nothing new there. They are in danger of losing credibility with their team at this rate. They are often sub'd in 2nd half.

    Lee YP & Park are playing well. The team is doing well. :)

    Lee Eul Yong appears to be doing ok but was sub'd in 2nd half in the last game he played.

    Anh appears to be doing ok in J-league. He's 5th in scoring in J-league.
     
  10. cha doo ri

    cha doo ri Member

    Jul 17, 2004
    L.A.
    wtf is up with feyenoord....yea i get there is a language problem but song has been playin fine....why take him out all of a sudden?...cha has to score, his playin in second division right now....lee cs is doing good....seol i dont really know....lee yp and park doing good....lee ey is doing good his team is in 3rd place and he has 4 assists....ahn needs to get da f*** out of j-league, before its too late......
     
  11. Almogavar92

    Almogavar92 New Member

    Aug 17, 2001
    USA
    Club:
    Galatasaray SK
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Even though Korean players had 5-6 days prior to train for an international in the old days, we were also getting humiliated with ridiculous results. Moreover, our tactical approach to the game was horridly backward and reactionary.

    Sure, our foreign based players have their clubs to think about. But FIFA regulations state that players must be made available for sanctioned international dates. I think that playing in the premier elite leagues of Europe can only help our team in the long run. The experience is crucial because no matter what the skill level of the K-League, the pressure cooker atmosphere of high profile European games and big league derbies are almost on par with the pressures of a World Cup.

    The decline of English football in European competitions in the early 1990s was a direct result of the ban imposed on English clubs by UEFA as punishment for the 1985 Heysel tragedy. From the time between 1977 until 1985 (the year Heysel took place), only two non-English clubs were crowned European champions (Hamburg in 1983 and Juventus in 1985). English clubs (Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa) dominated the competition. But the ban prevented English players who were up and coming from playing midweek games on the continent and seeing how differently the game was played. This had an effect on the national team as the regime under Graham Taylor was criticized to produce one-dimensional football (ie. the direct long ball route variety). Players such as Lineker, Gascoigne, Platt and others were all talented, but the work horse players making up the English national side from English clubs were obviously affected by the Heysel ban. This one phenomenom in football history demonstrates quite clearly how a diverse footballing education (i.e. football played abroad) is key to success. Sure, the Italians almost always play within their borders, but developing footballing nations such as Korea can't afford to be so insular.
     
  12. rkim291968

    rkim291968 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    CA, USA
    You have good points. Unfortunately for Korean NT, our foreign based players are NOT playing in elite European leagues except for Lee CS. They are not playing top competition. And other than Park JS, I have not seen their stay in Euro so far have improved their skills much. Meanwhile, foreign based player dominated Korean NT have not done well for the last 2 years.
     
  13. buggy

    buggy New Member

    Aug 11, 2004
    so you seem pretty down about their position and performance abroad -- are you saying that you basically wish they'd all come back and just play inside Korea and concentrate on the NT games?
     
  14. arsdiona

    arsdiona New Member

    Sep 8, 2004
    There are a lot of countries out there with many, many national team regulars playing abroad and yet when the time comes to play for the NT they still manage to turn in solid performances. There's no reason why Korea shouldn't be able to do the same.

    No, it won't happen overnight. But it can. In the meantime there will be downs and ups (maybe more downs than we would like) but I believe having players abroad will benefit Korea in the long run.

    Though it does bother me somewhat that Lee CS is the only one playing in what one would consider a "top" league in Europe--that is debatable of course--and yet he's playing for a team that sucks.
     
  15. YCashMoney42

    YCashMoney42 Member

    Sep 21, 2004
    Seoul
    obviously we know what our best squad is... and what level we can play up to..

    we need to stop blaming coaches, coaches dont score goals for the team. Coehl (sp) was better coach then Bonfrere. it sux to see a great coach leave like that, its ridiculous.
    Looking back our couple games, we had plenty opportunities to score.. we just didnt capitalize. another thing is time , with many players being abroad now, we dont have enough time to practice together... and Bonfrere is changing things around too much, obiously 3-4-3 set up has been working good for us, but we always trying something new, then realize ******** this aint working and we change the formation late in the game and when thats done time is almost gone.

    but yea thats my .02
     
  16. rkim291968

    rkim291968 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    CA, USA
    Not all. Just those who are not learning and not improving. Those players can play in K-league and improve attendance and play for NT in more ready state.
     
  17. Almogavar92

    Almogavar92 New Member

    Aug 17, 2001
    USA
    Club:
    Galatasaray SK
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    I always thought a player would go abroad to better and further his career. If PSV is going to pay Park Ji-Sung and Lee Young-Pyo more than they would make playing for any K-League side, then that's just more incentive to the already massive prestige of playing for a top Dutch side that plays almost every year in Europe. With all due respect for our feelings concerning our lackluster progression since 2002, the national side doesn't pay our player's wages. That doesn't mean that no player should brush aside the national team. But are those of you who are disenchanted with our "foreign legionnaires" suggesting that we revert back to the K-League guard for the national side? I tend to side with the Maradona ideal that the national side takes priority even over the clubs. However, in today's lucrative market, no player who is concerned with finances, is guided by the concerns of the national team when making important career choices. Even if money isn't a concern, titles are to footballers. International events yield minimal opportunity to win silverware (every four years for either World Cup or Asian Cup) whereas club tournaments have yearly cups and titles. If you were a footballer, what would you do?

    Even Lee Chun-Soo's wilderness journey for Numancia gives him playing time to hone in on his skills against the world's best in La Liga. The problem is not that we have players in Europe. The problem is that we don't have enough players learning their trade in the best leagues of Europe. It's a f***ing shame that no Korean player can still make the grade with a Premiership club (or at least was invited to give it a shot). Lee Young-Pyo's performance against Ajax on the weekend was certainly encouraging, and more players need to be getting to Europe in a hurry. That's my take on it.
     
  18. cosmicbutthairs

    Sep 9, 2004
    I think alot of guys who play in the big leagues are grossly over estimated when it comes to playing for their country. A good example is Henry. Amazing with Aresenal, good for nothing for France.
     
  19. yimmy

    yimmy Moderator

    Aug 23, 2004
    California
    Great post, everything you say makes a lot of sense. I just thought I heard that Lee Chun Soo completed a trial for some Premiership club back in 2002. I heard that Southhampton (sp?) was interested in signing him, but his K-League club wouldn't let him go.
     
  20. rkim291968

    rkim291968 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    CA, USA
    Very good points!

    What do you think about Korean's best players (Anh, Yoo) in J-leagues?
     
  21. rkim291968

    rkim291968 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    CA, USA
    Don't worry about spelling in this thread, mate :D
     
  22. Almogavar92

    Almogavar92 New Member

    Aug 17, 2001
    USA
    Club:
    Galatasaray SK
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    My feelings about our players in Japan are somewhat mixed. I think that Ahn's case was particularly unfortunate after the 2002 World Cup. He was not our best player, but he certainly proved his value to the national side by scoring crucial goals for us in that campaign. He was a victim of Gaucci's eccentric management at Perugia (but then again, so was everyone who was ever tied to Perugia and Catania). Being fired for having scored against Italy borders on discrimination that wouldn't be tolerated under American anti-discrimination employment law, but this is Italy. Unfortunately, other European clubs couldn't procure his services and his only other option was Japan. He's done fairly well for himself and scores regularly (initially for Shimizu S-Pulse and now for Yokohama Marinos). But unfortunately he's failed to reproduce club form for the national side. I think football is all about highs and lows. It's great that everyone has high expectations for him because he's a highly talented footballer. There are questions of his fitness, but he's a well rounded player who's only fault is holding onto the ball too long. Other than that, I think the lad should ply his trade back in Europe. But football is all about confidence in addition to talent and he just needs a confidence boost.
     
  23. cosmicbutthairs

    Sep 9, 2004
    thats ok. Ahn=Henry! Or should I say AHNRY! ;)
     
  24. Hyok

    Hyok Member+

    Sep 4, 2002
    California
    I think the major obstacles to him playing Europe is his advancing age (kinda getting to that age where you're no longer a hot prospect) and his penchant for asking for too much money.
     
  25. rkim291968

    rkim291968 New Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    CA, USA
    Well, I am not sure what your opinion is on this. You described Anh's circumstances of ending up in Japan but offered no definitive point. Do you think those players help improving Korean NT side? If not, should they stay in K-league although they would earn less money? We are talking hypothetical situation so everyone's point is valid (we all know the players will do what's best for them first, not for Korean NT at the expense of $$$ in their pocket).
     

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