KNT Discussion -- where to play Koo Ja-cheol?

Discussion in 'Korea' started by gambeta, May 27, 2012.

  1. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    Forgive me if this has been discussed already. I skimmed through the Koo @ Augsburg thread as well as the KNT thread, but couldn't find anything.
    --

    What position should Koo Ja-cheol play for the KNT? Some time during last year, some of us (including myself) were suggesting that we'd be better off having him play holding midfielder with Ki Sung-yong shuttling behind a #10 in a 4-2-3-1 (Although this had more to do with the scarcity of holding midfielders in the K-League than Koo's suitability for the position).

    But after watching him play at Augsburg over the past five months or so, I'm starting to think that his skill-set is better suited to play the #10 role. His footwork is impeccable in limited space and his close control, positioning and assertiveness in the hole are actually better than the likes of Ki Sung-yong and Yoon Bitgaram (and he certainly times his passes better than Nam Tae-hee). I've come to realize that the things he provides at the attacking end are too good to be wasted by deploying him deep in midfield.

    Also, I think a lot of us were opposed to him playing wide, but after watching him over the last few months, I actually think he's very well capable of playing on the left as long as he's given license to cut infield and play behind the striker (a la Juan Mata, even though he plays on the right).

    Thoughts?
     
  2. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    I guess there was a similar discussion here, but I think this topic deserves its own thread as it pertains to his position for the national team.
     
  3. skimmilk

    skimmilk Member+

    Apr 22, 2010
    Texas, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Agreed but if you want my 1 cent, it's more about filling in other holes... Ie if he plays at 10, who pairs with KSY? If he's DM who plays the 10 (if KBK, cascade to lw). And so forth.
     
  4. Jitevra

    Jitevra Member+

    Apr 15, 2010
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    [​IMG]

    Well...in the Olympics anyway.
     
  5. Hodori

    Hodori Member+

    Aug 12, 2010
    I'd still play him in the deeper role and have him make some offensive sacrifices. That way we can accommodate Kim BK.

    In a pinch, we can have him shift forward depending on injuries/form during the course of the tournament.

    But I'd hate to see one of KSY, KJC or KBK on the bench at the expense of inferior alternatives like Kim Do Hyon or Kim Sang Sik as in the last WCQ.

    We're never going to have a true defensive midfielder who we can consistently rely on for the next year. I can live with KJC in that deeper role. But I'd also give him the freedom to launch mid range shots on sight.
     
  6. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    I prefer Kim Bo-gyeong to play wide.

    I'd like to see Kim Jae-sung (since he's called up) play alongside Ki Sung-yong deep in midfield. He has the physique and work rate to provide defensive stability, IMO. So it comes down to testing him to see if he's capable of playing a disciplined role.
     
  7. Hodori

    Hodori Member+

    Aug 12, 2010
    If that's how you feel, just don't read this thread.
     
  8. fiercejoy

    fiercejoy Member

    Jul 1, 2010
    Was thinking the same, but also had another thought - if KJC plays as the 10 and KBK as LW, is that likely to cause problems? From what I understand, KBK is not a winger and prefers to play centrally. I mean, is there a risk that they won't work well together, get in each other's way, etc? Excuse me if this is a naive question.
     
  9. Hodori

    Hodori Member+

    Aug 12, 2010
    박현범?

    Edit - Nevermind... Got it...

     
  10. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    It's a valid point. But I think Kim Bo-gyeong is fully capable of playing on the left. Even if Koo Ja-cheol plays as our #10, he'll naturally drop back to create room for Kim Bo-gyeong to cut infield and link up with the striker.
     
  11. Hodori

    Hodori Member+

    Aug 12, 2010
    All our wingers tend to drag inside anyway. KBK will have to maintain discipline and stay wide to deliver crosses. But he should function fine starting left.

    And it gives us more opportunities for LCY and KBK to swap wings to go inverted as well.
     
  12. loren

    loren New Member

    Jun 10, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    KBK AND Nam on the wings with Koo behind PCY the three mids will switch during the game.
     
  13. Hodori

    Hodori Member+

    Aug 12, 2010
    No.
     
  14. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    I'm not opposed to this idea in the long run, but don't you think making Kim Bo-gyeong our #10 would be overwhelming for him considering where he is in his career at the moment? He still has very little international experience and it hasn't been long since he started producing consistently at club level. He's too inexperienced to have so much responsibility for now, IMO. I would put him on the left for now and gradually give him a bigger role as he develops.
     
  15. Hodori

    Hodori Member+

    Aug 12, 2010
    I want to give him a couple opportunities to see if he sinks/swims. If he can cut apart the middle eastern parked buses, then it means we're set for the next two years.

    If he can't, then I'd move him left and put in KJC in the hole. From there, we can do what you've suggested...
     
  16. fiercejoy

    fiercejoy Member

    Jul 1, 2010
    If both KJC and KBK would play better as a 10, it seems inevitable that one of them will have to be sacrificed. Then the question is, which of the two will perform their second-best position better - KJC as a CM pairing with KSY or KBK as a LW.

    Of course, we also have to factor in other personnel. Do you guys think SHM will be ready in two years? If so, I guess it will be KJC pairing with KSY and KBK as the 10.
     
  17. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    Perhaps I should've started a thread about Kim Bo-gyeong instead.

    How would you rate his ability to play centrally as opposed to his performance on the left? My first chance to assess him was during the U-20 World Cup in 09 and I was always under the impression that he's at his best when making diagonal runs from the left. I'm still not sure if he has the proper positioning ability to perform effectively in the middle.

    Where does he play at Cerezo?
     
  18. Hodori

    Hodori Member+

    Aug 12, 2010
    Well, it sure isn't going to be NTH on the RW as someone suggested above when we have Lee Chung Yong available...

    As for Son HM, it depends on his endurance. If his endurance doesn't improve, he needs to be our supersub imo...

    But the likes of SHM is precisely why I would want to test Kim BK and see if he's ready to assume the no. 10 mantle...
     
    loren repped this.
  19. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    One attractive element of playing Kim Bo-gyeong centrally is that then we can play Son Heung-min on the left. Son Heung-min's ability to utilize his stronger foot by cutting infield and Kim Bo-gyeong's natural leftward drift from the middle can potentially form a lethal partnership, IMO.
     
  20. loren

    loren New Member

    Jun 10, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    If LCY was match fit, Nam shouldn't be on the senior team.
     
  21. skimmilk

    skimmilk Member+

    Apr 22, 2010
    Texas, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Can't you say that about all our other 10 options?

    Problem with SHM on the left is that he doesn't really play there with his club and has been embarrassingly poor with his crosses when he's on that part of the field.

    SHM is also one of our more tactically simple players right now. I'd prefer him as a 9 until he matures or as a super sub where he can use his speed to overcome his mistakes.
     
  22. koreansock

    koreansock Red Card

    Sep 28, 2009
    Club:
    Ulsan Horang I
    Nat'l Team:
    Paraguay
    I don't think Koo Jachul will be able to keep up with the defensive responsibilities of a winger. This year at Augsburg wasn't the first time he's displayed stamina issues and I hear there is a lot of running required between pretending to be a winger and behaving as a second striker. Even if he could manage the defensive duties just barely, I don't want to see it. We are still at a process of finding starting fullbacks and it just wouldn't be fair for the defender to have to deal with such unstable winger playing in front of him. Koo's inconsistency in his performance at an unorthodox position will also mean we don't get the best performance out of everyone during the tryouts. Moving onto my final point in the subject, I'd say Kim Bokyung's got the left Juan Mata position covered and he may even be able to a better job than Koo can.

    Koo's fitness is what's going to keep the whole 'can he play with Ki Sungyong' debate alive in the future. I have little doubt he's versatile enough to take on other positions, but he can't go full 90 playing outside of his usual deep lying playmaker role. As for Ki, he sucks at being anything else but a DM. At this point--if it were up to me--I'd just say take your pick and the other gets benched for the match until the second half. During our 2018 Russia campaign--as early as the Asian Cup at Australia--when both, especially Ki, have matured as footballers and have become experienced central midfielders, then we can try starting the two together. In fact, we should try to build the whole team around the two and force the pair to learn to play together even if it doesn't go well the first few times around, like we did with Ki Sungyong and Kim Jungwoo. Of course, again, all this is if everything was up to me.
     
    Seol Korea and gambeta repped this.
  23. Hodori

    Hodori Member+

    Aug 12, 2010
    Having him cut in from the left as a 11 is much better than leaving him up top by himself if he can't figure out his positioning.

    It's much more prudent to have a 9 1/2 like PJY or a battering ram 9 like KSW start than SHM getting in the way of the midfielders in a static 9 position.
     
    gambeta repped this.
  24. gambeta

    gambeta Member

    Sep 21, 2009
    I would say Kim Bo-gyeong is the least established among our potential starters. He was playing in Japan's second division only a couple of years ago and also doesn't have any significant playing experience with the senior national team.



    But we don't need him to provide crosses from the wings. Also, his pace would be a non-factor as a #9 if he plays centrally against teams that park the bus in the WCQs.
     
  25. skimmilk

    skimmilk Member+

    Apr 22, 2010
    Texas, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    We need more from our wingers. Definitely one of the biggest failings of CKR. I think SHM is ok enough to be a 9 if we have smart playmakers around him to set him free on the break.

    I'd rather have PCY many times over. But ...
     

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