Knockout Stage General Discussion Thread

Nah. It’s more like a FIFA propaganda narrative that is now backfiring. The narrative was some type of history washing to wipe Pele and Maradona from the books as the consensus best players of all time, because that hurts FIFA’s bottom line to have the actual greatest players of all time long since retired and, unfortunately, no longer with us. Much better for the bottom line to install an aging superstar, well past his prime, but who always failed to reach the level of his predecessors. But you can only fool the masses for so long, and that Egypt match seemed like a breaking point, where a huge part of the world (Africa and the Muslim world) felt a personal injustice. So, the counter narrative has developed.

Just walking around New York City, it seems nearly unanimous from people that we meet and talk with, people from such far-flung places as Chad, Colombia, and various European and Asian countries. They are all against Argentina because of a perceived refereeing bias in favor Messi and Argentina, and also racism among the Argentine fans and players. I know it’s anecdotal, but this isn’t just an Internet thing, it’s real.

 

As you may know, that is basically the plot of “Back to the Future, Part II.” Remember, “I’ve got 3 words for you: Gray’s Sports Almanac.”

Or are you being sarcastic, and that is what you are referring to?

 

Here’s the problem with Mbappe that I’ve seen at both club level and with the France National team. I don’t feel he’s the best tactically. In terms of individual talent, he might be the best player in the world right now. But tactically he’s not the greatest and can leave liabilities defensively and chemistry wise.

What I’ve been seeing in this French attack is they have very good individual talent in Mbappe, Olise, Dembele, Barcola, and Doue. I think the chemistry between them is ok. It’s not elite, but it is fairly good. The problem though is Game IQ, structure, positioning, organization, and decision making. France has been quite weak in these areas and this is why they’ve had so many missed chances throughout this whole World Cup, and part of the reason for their struggle against Spain, and England today.

Even the games France won comfortably, in almost all of them they could’ve scored like 2-3 more goals at least, fairly easily. Much of this is their poor decision making, Game IQ not being elite, and the attack not having the best structure, organization, and positioning.

Like at club level, remember that when Mbappe left PSG, PSG won the champions league? And Real Madrid won it before, and they seemed to be slightly weakened once the field, once Mbappe joined Real Madrid.

Now like I said the problem with France is not only Mbappe, and it goes way beyond him; but I do feel that he’s not being used tactically in the best way, and I wonder if he just tactically struggles sometimes.

In fact, I seriously wonder if maybe Mbappe would be best if he went to a club like Atletico Madrid or was coached by Diego Simeone? I think a manager like Simeone might get the best out of him. Mourinho could do fairly well too actually. I just remember his early years at Monaco, and I felt he was used the best tactically when he partnered with Falcao at Monaco.

 

Not to take anything away from Mbappe, but scoring 2 in an exhibition match is a cheap way to win the golden ball.

 

Maybe but the all-time WC Golden Boot is Just Fontaine, with an incredible 13 goals in just 6 matches in Sweden, 1958. Since defences are so much stronger these days, that record is surely unbeatable.

He scored 4 of those goals in the 3rd place playoff.

They all count.

 

Was just about to type make sure to grab that kid Bif and the dude with the crazy hair lol.

 

You're very right about how France could have scored even more during this World Cup in games that they won easily. In most of their games, I felt like they were in exhibition mode. What I really want to see once Zidane takes over is more control in midfield. France have a tradition of producing great midfielders. This current generation of French players has many strikers and wingers, but world-class midfielders are also crucial when it comes to winning the biggest trophies.

So do you think Mbappe would be more effective as part of a two-man strikeforce?

 

Is there going to be a finals thread or are we posting here for the final?

 

French team collapsed completely in the first halftime. This reminded me on their WC 2010 performance. No desire, joy and motivation.
Something to think about it, multicultural teams and their desire to win for their new country. That’s why Spain could win. Third place match was without any tactical approach. England had lower multicultural level, so they scored two extra goals. Rabiot, Digne two only French players. So sad.

 

Go back into your hole.

 

What about 1998, 2014 (klose, khedira, boateng, and ozil), and 2018?

 

Yes

All knockout matches have been commented on this thread: facilitates watching commentary evolution as KO brackets get smaller.

 

Well, his handle is Loco, no?

 

I at least wonder if Mbappe would be better in a 2 man strike force. Worth a try for sure, and that’s what he did at Monaco.

And yes I agree, I really feel the midfield is where France is weak right now and honestly midfield is what truly wins you games.

Historically in almost all world cups and even champions leagues, the best midfields won or did the best for the most part.

I do want to say though that I have some criticisms of Deschamps because France do not have bad midfielders. They might not be the most elite but they do have world class midfielders and Deschamps hasn’t been using them well tactically.

Not to mention: Camavinga missed this World Cup due to injury and I think he might be one of your best midfielders.

I would really like to see how France does in a potential 3-5-2


-Mbappe-Dembele or Kolo-Muani-
-Olise-Zaire-Emery-Tchouameni-Camavinga-Gusto-
-Saliba-Upamecano-Kounde-
-Magnian-

I seriously wonder how France would do this way.

All that to say, when we look at the previous world cups:

2022:
Argentina and Croatia had the best midfields.

Argentina had Enzo Fernandez, Mac Allister, and De Paul. Croatia had Modric, Brozovic, and Kovacic. Best midfields in the World Cup. Spain and England’s midfielders were still very young, not developed yet, and inexperienced so they had talent but wasn’t really ready and explosive yet. As for France, they had some key injuries, but Camavinga was there as well as Tchouameni, and they it had a better dynamic than France’s midfield now.

In 2018: France and Croatia had the best midfields by far and it wasn’t even close. France had Kante, Pogba, and Matuidi and these players were in their primes. Croatia had Modric, Rakitic, and Brozovic.

In 2014: Germany had the best midfield with Schweinsteiger, Khedira, and Toni Kroos. Spain was arguably second on paper, but some of them were aging and past their prime.

Anyways im not saying that midfield is the only thing, but genuinely, you need a very good midfield and one of the top midfields combined with other quality around the pitch to win the World Cup.

This is why Brazil failed in 2018 and 2022, despite looking the most dominant teams coming into the tournament attack wise. Casemiro was their only world class midfielder. This is also why Belgium did well but failed to win in 2018. De Bruyne was their only world class midfielder and he is very attacking, and they didn’t have any world class defensive midfielders.

This also why Real Madrid won 3 champions leagues in a row at one point with Casemiro, Kroos, and Modric. Best midfield in the world by far. If you remember in the season prior to that tenure, they lost to Juventus and that’s because Casemiro wasn’t there yet and Modric was injured. They relied on Kroos, James / Isco, and put Ramos there. Not complete at all, and Juventus with Pirlo, Marchisio, Pogba, and Vidal were able to outplay them.

And if you remember Barcelona’s treble winning success in 2014-15, many people talk about MSN but there was also Busquets, Iniesta, Rakitic, and Xavi off the bench. Very strong midfield.

Or Italy’s triumph in Euro 2020. Jorginho, Verratti, and Barella was the best midfield in the world at that point with all of them around their prime. Once Jorginho and Verratti started to decline, Italy failed to qualify for the World Cup, and the team was in huge decline.

 

"Why is everyone always rooting against Argentina / Spain?"

 

If you really want to bother him, just put the name of Nikola Karabatic into the discussion.

 

They just came up against a better coordinated team that got an early lead. Spain beat them for a third time with Mbappe at St.

Maybe if they could bring giroud or benzema back lol and mbappe at lw. Wouldn't have the triangle with rodri and two CB's around mbappe lol... But spain would also probably go double pivot with rodri on Mbappe's side.

What France really needed to be in the final was be on the other side of the bracket lol.

In 6 hours we'll know how good Spain is. Younger guys. Extra day of rest. Lower minutes on their legs. We'll see if Lamine's hamstring holds up.

At least the rain has made NJ cooler.

Argentina gonna have to dig deep, but they've dug deep in all the ko's so far so ... Should be fun today in MetLife. See ya guys on the trains

 

Everyone was rooting for Argentina in 2022. Now they the villain cause of VAR. Spain cause their possession is boring/dominant... Sometimes you do go "holy shit" when they string together some nice passes that makes the other team look silly though. Qf / semi was a little boring to watch as they nullified the other team.

 

Your midfield argument is spot on. All of those examples you cited are correct. Real Madrd waited twelve years to win La Decima. They were failing for all those years because they lacked balance. Zidane was pivotal in establishing balance, first as Ancelotti's assistant and then when he ran the show for the UCL three-peat between 2016 and 2018. As a player with Juventus, Real Madrid, and the French national team, Zidane benefitted from playing in world-class midfields that had the right balance between creativity and industry.

The famous BBC trio did a lot of damage because they had some of the best midfielders in the history of the game behind them pulling the strings and maintaining control.

In order for Mbappe to make the most of his talent, both at club and national team level, he needs a stronger midfield which guarantees control and possession. I think both Mourinho and Zidane know this. We'll have to see if they can actually create the right conditions that will allow Mbappe to flourish.

 

Yesterday's match was a carbon copy of the recent France vs. England Six Nations rugby game: no defense, with tries and goals flying in from every direction. It was absolutely wild. You’d think the footballers wanted to copy their rugby counterparts in terms of sheer chaos. Mind you, France did win the rugby match. Just barely.

 

Father of Klose is ethnically Silesian German.
Mother of Khedira and Boateng are German
We saw Mesut Ozil and his German anti-sentiment after he retired. Germany gave him everything to him and to his parents.
If you mean on France 1998, you have a point: Barthez, Blanc, Lebeouf, Deschamps, Guivarch, Petit…much more French players. That’s why they have won the title. But in 1998 France started to bring in much more foreigners. EURO 1996 was also evident. That’s why France collapsed in the group stage 2002. A lot of multicultural hype, team engagement technically ended in 2002.
Emotional rollercoaster. Lets not forget that France was not at World Cups 1990,1994. The years of struggle, how to convince players that they are actually French and fully accepted even though they lived in metropolitan forgotten outskirts.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/27895655

 

What else to expect from a glorified exhibition game? You may as well say that the Pro Bowl is a real NFL event.

Everyone's WC has ended, disappointingly, and preseasons (preseason games, to be exact) have already started. If nobody wants to be at the 3rd place playoff, nobody wants to tear a hamstring on top of that. As for an ACL ...

All the more credit to both sides then for serving up an enjoyable bit of fun IMO but the Harlem Globetrotters aren't Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls