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Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by spot, Apr 20, 2006.
Del'Apa on Kirovski
that was a good read. Kirovski can still help the national team, especially at Forward. You can't tell me that Brian Ching, Josh Wolff and Conor Casey are THAT much better than he is.
Gotta agree. Arena has thrown put all his eggs in those four's (Twellman, Ching, Wolff, Casey) basket during qualifying and hasn't gotten an omelet. WE still don't know if any of them can play on the international level.
Clint and Kiro have both performed at the international level - at least as well and if not better than those three - and have played professionally in Germany.
It seems almost criminal neither has had a look in nearly two years, especially since we haven't a reliable fourth striker. (Seems like that Grenada series was the last time Ching put the friggin' ball in the goal.)
I bet if either had stayed abroad, regardless of their form, they would have gotten more looks than they have.
Gotta chime in on the Kiro Chat---Nice article by the way.....
I completely agree with Kirovski on the thought of playing a position you're not comfortable with, Sampson should have known that from his days on the National Team where Jovan was wearing #10. But thats why Sampson is a deuche.
As for Kiro, great run, right before the world cup, but i dont think Bruce Arena is going to give him a shot....but then he should also not even consider Wolff...he is the most overratted player we have in the states.
I'd like to see him in uniform for the Morocco or Venezuela games but its a long shot. Too late i think
He scores 3 goals, and just one of those from the run of play, and all of a sudden you guys think he's national team quality?
Don't get me wrong, he's been playing better as of late and his goals were quality shots. But isn't this just a slight bit of overreaction?
I'd take Ching over Kirovsky anyday.
WTF ... Fernando Fernando Fernando.
Let's check your score card - Cunningham - gone. Kotschau - gone. I've also heard that Nkong was big trouble in the locker room - gone.
Well what's your definition of "national team quality"?
Because there isn't a single forward in MLS, with the possible exception of Eddie Johnson, that fits mine.
For goodness sakes, at least Kirovski makes his penalty kicks. Josh Wolff can't even do that anymore and he basically guaranteed a spot by default.
Try this: Are there any other two forwards in MLS who are bigger threats to score from free kicks?
I don't think either are world-beaters, nor really any better than anybody else competing for the spot. The point is: they aren't any worse.
Let's add the Cannon fiasco from this summer - and now the Pedro news to this!!!
I saw nothing in the Cannon situation that I would label as a fiasco. Club talks trade when they are unable to reach a deal with a player who's contract is ending. Happens all the time. As for the other baggage and rumors surrounding that, I have no reason to believe them.
FC wants to trade Pedro, so?
Sorry, I'm not seeing the big deal.
Hopefully experienced players can step up where the intentionally targeted producers have not..
But make no mistake; Kiro is not a targeted scorer for a reason.. but this, in no way, takes away from what he has balanced out on the team..
To me the continued big deal is bringing players that become or creating a situation where the players won't play for the coach.
The Cannon and Pedro situations are fiascos because they were made public. Yes teams shop players all the time - but generally the players and the public do not know they are being shopped unless they are 100% not in the plans of the team. When that generally happens - those players become unsettled and stop performing.
So you have no reason to believe there was a rift between Cunningham and FC? Or Kotschau or FC? What does it take? The players or coach to have a sit down with you LOL (I jest - don't take it seriously)
I cannot remember where I heard about the Nkong problems - so I'll let you keep not believing that one
Who doesn't want to play for FC?
Cunningham - Cunningham created the issue, FC sure seemed to be affected by it and traded him. That's one.
Ritchie - FC didn't play him, and then traded him. Is this more then FC not liking what Ritchie brought to the team? I don't know, you have something that shows otherwise?
Pedro - Who made it public? The Rapids? FC? Who said Pedro doesn't want to play for FC.
Cannon - I stick with my it happens all the time. Cannon has said multiple time he wanted to play here and FC said he wanted him to.
Nkong - I'm waiting.
So I count one instance where a player was performing well, had a hissy fit and FC (it seem pretty clear) let him affect him. I say FC takes the hit on Jeff, haven't seen anything to suggest any of the other players you mentioned didn't want to play for Jeff.
As for when I believe something...
First, I will tend to believe a player or coach when they are quoted. Even then we need to understand the context and that what is being said may be the "politically correct thing to say.
Second, there is no second. Especially when it's on an Internet forum .
Somebody says they heard a player say some crap about another player or coach. Slides right off me. Don't get me wrong, I love to hear rumors and gossip. I just don't believe it.
My impression is that Nkong was more of a locker room problem than a problem for FC. Just the rumor that I heard.
For that matter I'm not certain that JC was entirely loved in the locker room.
Now the big question.... Do we want guys who get along or guys who win? I'm not a big JC fan, but I miss Nkong and think his best days were ahead of him.
Uhhhh, NO. If you would have said I'd take the orange cone over Ching, then I could have agreed.
I agree with the Josh Wolff critique, as I see his only valuable skills falling in the theatrical department.
But as for the free kick threats, do you mean shooting the ball directly off the kick or scoring on a dead ball regardless if they're the one serving it? Because frankly, I'd take both Twellman and Ching over Kirovski if it's the latter, as both have a tendency to play big enough to score off dead balls of any kind served in. If you mean direct attempts at net, there's Landon (you'll count him as a mid, Bruce'll play him at forward) and our own Mathis, but that's about it.
My biggest thing is how knee-jerky this all is. Most of these fans were jumping down Jovan's throat last year and blaming the demise of the team on his arrival (myself partially included, although I lay more blame on the coach), and the second Jovan tallies a couple, everyone starts acting like he's the second coming of Bravo or something.
If I remember right, Jovan also started off hot with the Galaxy when he a) arrived from Europe and b) started last season, then completely disappeared from the statsheet. So all I'm saying is, hold off the hype a wee bit until we're more than 3 games into the season.
Plenty of other players already on the squad that can take free-kicks.
LOL Kirovski national team material? The guy's a joke. You're basing this on the first three games of the season? If we took this rationale then the MLS forwards that should go to the WC would be Brian Ching and Kenny Cooper.
I wouldnt go so far as to say he's a joke---Lalas was a joke in his day, players like Clavijo, Meola, Klopas, Harkes, Wynalda were and are a joke.
Kirovski doesn't seem like he's in that category. The dude made his money playing over seas and has now come back (to the USA) to retire just like Hristo Stoichkov did, Pele, etc... did and how Beckham, Ronaldo, Rhonaldihno will do.
P.S. no one else on this national team can take Free Kicks...and no one has ever scored a better goal than the one that Kirovski did against Germany a few years ago. Period.
Sure, it's only a few games in, and people love to hate on a guy who isn't a deuche like Wolff, big deal. He's better, in my opinion and many others' than Wolff---and that guys going to the world cup.
I don't think Jovan should go either, but to say he's a joke is a bit of a wild comment comming from someone who's probably an angry Galaxy fan...sorry your team sucks now and that Kiro hit the nail on the head with Sampson and his inability to find good fits for players in positions....so when are you guys going to get a line-up settled??? and what about when Landon and Albright, and maybe Dunivant leave for a month? Then what? Sampson gonna use the money he "saved" and buy another developmental player so you can struggle to beat Chivas?
Woah Woah hold your horses Ed king of wild assumptions and aggrandizer of Jovan Kirovski. Kirovski isn't playing in Europe because he's not that good. He was crap with the Galaxy and he had PLENTY of chances.
You're saying calling Kirovski a joke is wild? You're the one that thinks that Ronaldo,Ronahldinho and Beckham will come to Major League soccer
I don't know why you're going off about the Galaxy. I'm an FC Dallas fan. I agree that Sampson is a retard though.
The Bruce continues to hint that he would like to coach a club in Europe after the WC. But if he selects Wolf, he will not be taken seriously as a good judge of talent. Wolf's MLS salary is 400k+ he has to be the most overvalued player in the league.
Actually it is even worse than that, he is the reason that anyone that knows even a little about footy won't bid on the Wizards so this is the second year that they'll be driving that clunker around with the 'For Sale' sign in the window. Even the new drop-down DVD player (E.J.) doesn't quite make it a vehicle anyone wants to own because it will soon be smashed and grabbed by a Euro. squad (if he ends up to be all-that in Germany with similar form to early qualifiers) and if not ... well ... he's sort of another Wiff, er um Wolff.
So in 2004, at the ripe old age of 28, Kirovski chose to come to MLS to have a few easy years before hanging up the cleats? The guy turned 30 just a month ago and I bet if you mentioned the word "retirement" he'd probably knock your teeth out.
Truth is that Kirovski never lived up to the potential that clubs like ManU once saw in him. Year by year, he was knocked down rung by rung, and failed to make a significant impact in Arena's eyes. What brought Jovan to MLS was money -- more than he was getting paid in Europe -- and the chance for improved exposure to Il Bruce.
I'm not making any statements about his abilities, simply pointing out that Kirovski is hardly a player who chose MLS because of its IRA co-pay benefits.
Actually, Jovan came back to the States because of his family. His father died while he was with Birmingham City, shortly after his son was born in England. He came back to be nearer to his widowed mother, not to mention his inlaws, who also live in Southern California. I spoke with him about this at his dad's funeral.
As far as being crap with the Galaxy as another suggested here, Jovan played well for LA, scoring goals and leading in the clubhouse. His talents were poorly used by Sampson (who tried to make him a target forward, ala Brian McBride), and when he got sideways with the boss, he was shipped out. Most Galaxy fans would take Jovan back in place of Pete Vagenas right now.
Isn't Vagenas your d-mid? Would you, really, want Jovan to replace him?