I know I'm taking a risk here but i wanted to ask a question that occured to me from something Segroves mentioned on of the 'Support Our Troops' thread. Do the majority of soldiers really not want to kill the enemy? It's a last resort kind of deal? The reason I ask is that quite a few of the ones I've met (my brother and Dad among them) had no qualms about it whatsoever. Some even seemed well up for it. Is it just certain members of the Armed Forces (Paras, Marines, SAS)? Certain national mindsets (English, Aussies, Kiwis)? This may be entirely redundant as I never fully joined up as I intended and couldn't now even if I wanted to, but it always seemed par for the course for me and something you dealt with when you got to it. Any thoughts? I realise this isn't the best thought out of all questions, it just struck me as interesting considering Segroves' aforementioned point and Lastort (I think) getting flak for his assertion that 'they know what they're getting into.'
I should hope that all of our front-line soldiers are chomping at the bit to kill the enemy. If not, they can fuel trucks.
Re: Re: Killing But really. Someone who really wants to be out there killing doesn't deserve any pity or sympathy when killed. I'll agree that it's a good attitude once you're there.
i've got a friend who is an army ranger, stationed in Korea. after 9.11 he wasn't sure where he was going but he did think it was afghanistan and he said "i can't wait to get over there and start slaying people" now certainly he is one man and he can speak for himself, but i do feel that special forces, especially, are trained to seek out and kill the enemy. and to tell you the truth, i feel a lot safer thinking that.
Did he really say "slay". I call ************************ on that. Nobody says "slay" unless they are effeminant Yankees.
Re: Re: Killing I firmly believe that while all soldiers are trained to kill not all soldiers are prepared to kill. But it doesn't matter, I mean look what happened to those of the 507th Maintenance Company. I doubt they ever thought they'd be in the position they're in. Maybe not eloquently stated, but that was my point, in part, on that "reconsider support the troops" thread. Shoshana Johnson is a chef, not a combatant, but now she's a prisoner of war along with the others from her maintanence unit. From what I've read, she never intended to wield a rifle, maybe a frying pan, but not a rifle. Another of the POW's was just about finished with his military commitment when he was deployed. He convinced his younger brother NOT to join the military because, his family says, a couple of years ago he was worried about the US going to war. I don't think it's too far off base to question who really wants to kill and who doesn't. But understand that this is coming from a person who is trained to save lives...I just can't phathom killing anyone, but I understand what the troops face. For Cripes sake, one of my closest friends was a medic and tunnel rat in Vietnam. I've heard unbelievable stories of war. And Mike Segroves...assume I'm an idiot all you want. I have a few people I hold dear to my heart somewhere in Kuwait, Iraq, and at Travis Airforce Base bravely waiting. I don't and will not resent any soldier who kills as you stated I would in that other thread...that was just low, even for you. I grieve for them. As far as demographics go, I think that a lot of young poor and disenfranchised youth join the military to get away from bleak futures. I don't know, but it just seems ironic that they now find themselves in a combat situation. I would be interested in seeing statistics on that demographic. And I'd be willing to bet that this population did NOT vote for Bush. I am very very concerned about a possible draft reinstatement if this thing isn't over soon.
alright, i'll come clean i made the whole thing b/c i really wanted to impress people on an internet website. yes, the word slay came out of his mouth. he lost 2 family members in NYC and i think he was speaking in terms of revenge.
Re: Re: Re: Killing The vast majority of military personnel are conservative and/or Republicans. Draftees would be of very little use to the modern US military, the foundation of our military is great men and women who WANT to be there. Alex
Re: Re: Re: Re: Killing I don't deny this. But... Perhaps she was one of those in the demographic I describe as disenfranchised and saw the military as her opportunity at culinary school. It's only hypothethical but unfortunate for her if true. I genuinely have absolutely no idea what I would do. I'm thinking that based on my past experiences in facing emergencies and as a fight or flight response, I would pick up the gun and use it but I hope I never have to find out. p.s. I don't work in the ER, but it's not to say that it couldn't happen in the ICU. Let me count the ways.....but I'm a big girl, I can handle it...it's kinda funny actually. And unfortunately the "by extention" part is what lumps us all together in the eyes of the Arab world. Then between you and me, they're covered. Economic status and region have a lot to do with each other...do they not? People I know, a majority republican, feared Bush and look where they are now. I think that a lot more US soldiers are going to die in this war than anyone could have imagined. If it's not over quickly and if other Arab nations become inflamed enough to get involved we are in big trouble. That's how I see it and not that I don't have faith in our military, but I will continue to worry that a reinstatement of the draft will be attempted if this isn't over soon.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Killing The military is not a welfare program. It is not a government aid program designed to give poor kids a chance at college and/or a career. It is an institution whose job is to protect America thru the use of force. All military personnel, from Navy SEALs to Air Force cooks, know that they could come in harm's way at some point. On September 10, 2001, an assignment to the Pentagon would probably have been considered about the safest job in the military--but look what happened. I'm sure that some of those killed in the Pentagon on that day never in a million years imagined that they would, essentially, die in combat that very day, but yet they did. EVERY military serviceman and woman is a warfighter (whether directly or indirectly), even more so today with the advent of terrorism. Sure, some are a lot more likely to face enemy fire than others, but all must prepare for it. Not really, unless you're talking very small regions (as in individual neighborhoods). You live in Northern California and expect us to believe a majority of people you know are Republican? Come on, I'm originally from the Bay Area, I still have family out there, I go there every summer and I absolutely love it, but a hotbed of conservatism it ain't. And I think that, if forced to make the choice, most servicemen/women would rather die on a battlefield in Afghanistan or Iraq, defending America's security, than in Bosnia or Rwanda on a Clinton-esque "peacekeeping" mission defending one group of people who are of no value whatsoever to America's national security from another group of people who are of no value whatsoever to America's national security. Only if Saddam has nukes (not chem/bio weapons--we're prepared for these--but nukes). Hey, if fundamentalist nuts from all over want to come and stand beside the Iraqi murderers and rapists for 2 seconds before being sent to an early meeting with Allah, I'm all for it. The only good Islamic fundamentalist is a dead Islamic fundamentalist. It won't happen. It's a bad idea militarily and a worse idea politically. Alex
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Killing Hey, I'm a conservative who believes prostitution and most drugs should be legalized, so I hear that. I should have said they have fairly conservative views on most issues (and therefore likely voted for Bush). No-one wants to be in combat, but there's a difference between not wanting to be in combat and bitching and crying and having Mommy write to your Congressman and, if that doesn't work, moving to Canada if someone so much as suggests the idea you might be drafted. Sadly, I feel too many of my fellow young male Americans fall into the second category. Alex
My cousin is a Navy SEAL based out of San Diego, he loves his job and all the situations the Navy puts him in. I don't know if this answers your question, but after a mission, they are given 6 months between missions to a have a cool down, i assume because of all the killing.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Killing I float between adult CV surgical ICU and trauma ICU. Actually until just several years ago, we had babies and kids on our cardiothoracic unit, but not since a couple of years after the children's hospital opened. Thanks for the recognition, it's woefully missing in nursing. People generally haven't a clue about our educational levels or what we really do. Your nails are too blunt. I want a refund.
That is called a tour. Most in the Navy/Marine Corp do 6 month tours. Sometimes it can be longer but never shorter.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Killing I wouldn't know from seeing all the recruitment ads from our arm forces!
Navy SEALS are facinating. My son is writing an 8th grade research paper on the SEALS and he's educating me along the way. He interviewed the father of one of the players on his school soccer team. This guy was with SEAL team 6 in GWI. Weird timing for this paper (he chose this career-oriented topic a month ago)--there's hardly any books left in the libraries around here about Navy SEALS, let alone the military itself.
Tell him to check out the SEALs message board at www.military.com, there's people there who'll be able to answer questions for him.