To celebrate Bundesliga 20th anniversary, Kicker hosted football gala in Hannover; Kicker's Super-Elf (Super Eleven) vs Niedersachsen allstar. when they announced their dreamteam, Kicker also released position ranking. Torhüter (Goalkeeper) 1. Sepp Maier (Bayern München) 2. Harald Schumacher (1. FC Köln) 3. Norbert Nigbur (Schalke 04) 4. Ronnie Hellström (1. FC Kaiserslautern) 5. Petar Radenkovic (1860 München) 6. Bernd Franke (Braunschweig) 7. Horst Wolter (Braunschweig) 8. Hans Tilkowski (Borussia Dortmund) 9. Rudi Kargus (Hamburger SV) 10. Wolfgang Kleff (Mönchengladbach) Rechter Verteidiger (Right Defender) 1. Berti Vogts (Mönchengladbach) 2. Manfred Kaltz (Hamburger SV) 3. Bernd Patzke (1860 München) 4. Josef Piontek (Werder Bremen) 5. Lothar Huber (Borussia Dortmund) 6. Johnny Hansen (Bayern München) 7. Hartmut Heidemann (MSV Duisburg) 8. Hans Nowak (Bayern München) 9. Bernd Förster (VfB Stuttgart) 10. Fahrudin Jusufi (Eintracht Frankfurt) Libero 1. Franz Beckenbauer (Bayern München) 2. Willi Schulz (Hamburger SV) 3. Klaus Fichtel (Schalke 04) 4. Bruno Pezzey (Eintracht Frankfurt) 5. Pero Roentved (Werder Bremen) 6. Klaus Sieloff (Mönchengladbach) 7. Bernd Cullmann (1. FC Köln) 8. Dieter Bast (VfL Bochum) 9. Gerd Strack (1. FC Köln) 10. Wilfried Hannes (Mönchengladbach) Vorstopper (Stopper) 1. Kerlheinz Förster (VfB Stuttgart) 2. Georg Schwarzenbeck (Bayern München) 3. Wolfgang Weber (1. FC Köln) 4. Ludwig Müller (Mönchengladbach) 5. Rolf Rüssmann (Schalke 04) 6. Karl-Heinz Körbel (Eintracht Frankfurt) 7. Ditmar Jakobs (Hamburger SV) 8. Uwe Kliemann (Hertha BSC) 9. Peter Nogly (Hamburger SV) 10. Gerd Zimmermann (Düsseldorf) Linker Verteidiger (Left Defender) 1. Paul Breitner (Bayern München) 2. Horst-Dieter Höttges (Werder Bremen) 3. Bernard Dietz (MSV Duisburg) 4. Hans-Peter Briegel (1. FC Kaiserslautern) 5. Willi Neuberger (Eintracht Frankfurt) 6. Herbert Zimmermann (1. FC Köln) 7. Udo Horsmann (Bayern München) 8. Helmut Kremers (Schalke 04) 9. Franz Merkhoffer (Braunschweig) 10. Michael Bella (MSV Duisburg) Rechtes Mittelfeld (Right Midfielder) 1. Kevin Keegan (Hamburger SV) 2. Herbert Wimmer (Mönchengladbach) 3. Jürgen Graboski (Eintracht Frankfurt) 4. Uli Hoeness (Bayern München) 5. Lothar Ulsass (Braunschweig) 6. Werner Krämer (MSV Duisburg) 7. Gilbert Gress (VfB Stuttgart) 8. Manfred Burgsmüller (Borussia Dortmund) 9. Franz Roth (Bayern München) 10. Klaus Zaczyk (Hamburger SV) Mittleres Mittelfeld (Center Midfielder) 1. Günter Netzer (Mönchengladbach) 2. Franz Beckenbauer (Bayern München) 3. Paul Breitner (Bayern München) 4. Heinz Flohe (1. FC Köln) 5. Peter Grosser (1860 München) 6. Felix Magath (Hamburger SV) 7. Hansi Müller (VfB Stuttgart) 8. Uli Stielike (Mönchengladbach) 9. Hans Siemensmeyer (Hannover 96) 10. Hannes Bongartz (1. FC Kaiserslautern) Linkes Mittelfeld (Left Midfielder) 1. Wolfgang Overath (1. FC Köln) 2. Bernd Hölzenbein (Eintracht Frankfurt) 3. Rainer Bonhof (Mönchengladbach) 4. Erich Beer (Hertha BSC) 5. Bernd Nickel (Eintracht Frankfurt) 6. Willy Huberts (Eintracht Frankfurt) 7. Hennes Küppers (1860 München) 8. Friedhelm Konietzka (Borussia Dortmund) 9. Max Lorenz (Werder Bremen) 10. Bernd Dürnberger (Bayern München) Rechtsaussen (Outside Right) 1. Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (Bayern München) 2. Allan Simonsen (Mönchengladbach) 3. Jürgen Grabowski (Eintracht Frankfurt) 4. Reinhard Libuda (Schalke 04) 5. Pierre Littbarski (1. FC Köln) 6. Danilo Popivoda (Braunschweig) 7. Rüdiger Abramczik (Schalke 04) 8. Horst Koppel (Mönchengladbach) 9. Herbert Laumen (Mönchengladbach) 10. Rainer Geye (1. FC Kaiserslautern) Mittelstürmer (Center Forward) 1. Gerd Müller (Bayern München) 2. Klaus Fischer (Schalke 04) 3. Uwe Seeler (Hamburger SV) 4. Horst Hrubesch (Hamburger SV) 5. Dieter Müller (1. FC Köln) 6. Sigi Held (Borussia Dortmund) 7. Bernd Rupp (Mönchengladbach) 8. Franz Brungs (1. FC Nürnberg) 9. Erwin Kostedde (Kickers Offenbach) 10. Klaus Toppmoller (1. FC Kaiserslautern) Linksaussen (Outside Left) 1. Jupp Heynckes (Mönchengladbach) 2. Georg Volkert (Hamburger SV) 3. Hannes Löhr (1. FC Köln) 4. Lothar Emmerich (Borussia Dortmund) 5. Erwin Kremers (Schalke 04) 6. Charly Dörfel (Hamburger SV) 7. Willy Lippens (RW Essen) 8. Henning Jensen (Mönchengladbach) 9. Heinz Hornig (1. FC Köln) 10. Roland Sandberg (1. FC Kaiserslautern) ideal best 11 -------Heynckes-G.Müller-K.Rummenigge --------------Overath-Netzer-Keegan ------Breitner-K.Förster-Beckenbauer-Vogts ------------------------Maier planned Super-Elf ----------Heynckes-G.Müller-Graboski --------------Overath-Netzer-Keegan Breitner-Schwarzenbeck-Beckenbauer-Weber ------------------------Maier real Super-Elf (beat Niedersachsen allstar 5:3) ----------Heynckes-G.Müller-Graboski --------------Overath-Seeler-Hoeness Breitner-Schwarzenbeck-Beckenbauer-Weber ------------------------Maier Trainer : Lattek Source : Kicker-Sportmagzin, Nr.82/83 1983
Excellent find! In this section I wonder why Rainer Bonhof, Erich Beer and to a lesser extent Bernd Hölzenbein are categorized as left midfield. I would never have put Bonhof and Beer in the left midfield category. This is strange because it was done in 1983 and both players were still actively playing football. All other players are in the right categories.
Just recently "Bild" published a ranking of the 100 greatest Bundesliga players, compiled by Ottmar Hitzfeld, Sepp Maier, Klaus Fischer, Karl-Heinz Körbel and Vim Vomland (of "Bild"). Top 50 01 Gerd Müller 02 Franz Beckenbauer 03 Uwe Seeler 04 Lothar Matthäus 05 Wolfgang Overath 06 Oliver Kahn 07 Thomas Müller 08 Paul Breitner 09 Sepp Maier 10 Miroslav Klose 11 Manuel Neuer 12 Michael Ballack 13 Günter Netzer 14 Rudi Völler 15 Philipp Lahm 16 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 17 Jerome Boateng 18 Bernd Schuster 19 Jürgen Grabowski 20 Jupp Heynckes 21 Bastian Schweinsteiger 22 Berti Vogts 23 Klaus Fischer 24 Stefan Effenberg 25 Rainer Bonhof 26 Heinz Flohe 27 Thomas Hässler 28 Jürgen Kohler 29 Uli Hoeness 30 Matthias Sammer 31 Andreas Brehme 32 Karl-Heinz Körbel 33 Manfred Kaltz 34 Jürgen Klinsmann 35 Sigfried Held 36 Wolfgang Weber 37 Karlheinz Förster 38 Toni Schumacher 39 Pierre Littbarski 40 Felix Magath 41 Ulf Kirsten 42 Herbert Wimmer 43 Karl-Heinz Riedle 44 Toni Kroos 45 Hans-Georg Schwarzenbeck 46 Uli Stielike 47 Mario Basler 48 Horst Hrubesch 49 Guido Buchwald 50 Hans-Peter Briegel
This list looks strange cause of inconsistent criterion. If they only consider BL&NT, Schuster is too high, if consider whole career, how Rudi above Kalle. Above all, No.2 Kaiser is really really amazing.
Yes some of it is strange. Seeler at no. 3 is too high because his best years were before 1963. Rummenigge is definitely too low. He should not be behind Völler, Lahm, Ballack, Klose and Thomas Müller. Boateng that high is also over-doing it with recent players. He's not better than many players behind him (just look at defenders Vogts, Kohler, K.Förster, Kaltz .... not to speak of midfielders like Effenberg, Grabowski, Hässler, Brehme ....). Bernd Schuster is too high, he spent his best years (1980 to 1993!) outside of the Bundesliga, only played there when he was very young and very old.
I like Jerome Boateng alot, he might well be the best centre-back in the world at the moment, but 17th best player in Bundesliga history? Better than Schweinsteiger or Hummels, who doesn't even make the list, among his contemporaries?
Probably he played left back but I thought that Höttges was more a right back or centre back. I know less than Kicker of course but I'd have Dietz over Höttges in the LB ranking if Höttges really belongs to that category more. Even if there are good chances they're equal. Please can someone tell about the position of Höttges in defense exactly through the years in club and NT?
Personally I would rate Dietz definitely above Höttges for sure among the left backs. Höttges was - simply put - almost a pure destroyer while Dietz was far more potent going forward but at the same time very reliable defensively. In his club Werder Bremen, Höttges started out as a left back because at the right back position there was already Sepp Piontek well established (the later manager of Denmark). Since Höttges was not a full back that would go down the flanks like a left winger it was no problem having him play on the left despite his right-footedness. In the national team in the 1960s Höttges started out as a right back because Karl-Heinz Schnellinger was the standard left back. By the late-1960s though, because Schnellinger usually was not released by AC Milan, Höttges then switched to left back while at right back Bert Vogts became the standard player. In 1972, Höttges played right back because Vogts was injured and Breitner was the left back. In his club Werder Bremen during the 1970s Höttges was used in a variety of defensive positions, most often right back (as Piontek had retired in 1971), but also frequently as a stopper, defensive midfielder, left back and by the mid-1970s also sometimes as a sweeper.
That confirms what I thought and thanks for all the details. It's not new to say, I guess most of all since the internet, but Dietz is really underappreciated. Most of all in retro rankings.
Dietz is certainly underappreciated, most of all in Germany itself. For fun, here's the German full back pairings in all senior international games since WWII up to the emergence of the 3-5-2 system in the 1980s: 1950 Burdenski, Streitle 1951 Burdenski, Streitle Streitle, Kohlmeyer Streitle, Kohlmeyer Streitle, Kohlmeyer Streitle, Kohlmeyer Juskowiak, Bauer 1952 Retter, Bauer Retter, Kohlmeyer Retter, Borkenhagen Retter, Kohlmeyer Retter, Kohlmeyer, Retter, Kohlmeyer 1953 Retter, Kohlmeyer Retter, Kohlmeyer Retter, Erhardt Retter, Kohlmeyer 1954 Retter, Kohlmeyer Retter, Laband Laband, Kohlmeyer (WC) Bauer, Kohlmeyer (WC) Laband, Bauer (WC) Laband, Kohlmeyer (WC) Posipal, Kohlmeyer (WC) Posipal, Kohlmeyer (WC) Erhardt, Kohlmeyer Erhard, Kohlmeyer Posipal, Kohlmeyer Posipal, Juskowiak 1955 Juskowiak, Kohlmeyer Retter, Erhardt Juskowiak, Posipal Schmidt, Posipal Posipal, Schmidt Posipal, Schmidt 1956 Posipal, Juskowiak Retter, Juskowiak Erhardt, Juskowiak Erhardt, Juskowiak Schmidt, Juskowiak Schmidt, Juskowiak Erhard, Juskowiak Juskowiak, Köchling 1957 Juskowiak, Schmidt Juskowiak, Schmidt Gerdau, Juskowiak Erhardt, Schmidt Erhardt, Juskowiak 1958 Erhardt, Juskowiak Stollenwerk, Juskowiak Erhardt, Juskowiak Stollenwerk, Juskowiak (WC) Stollenwerk, Juskowiak (WC) Stollenwerk, Juskowiak (WC) Stollenwerk, Juskowiak (WC) Stollenwerk, Juskowiak (WC) Stollenwerk, Erhardt (WC) Stollenwerk, Juskowiak Stollenwerk, Bauer Stollenwerk, Schnellinger Stollenwerk, Schnellinger Zastrau, Schnellinger 1959 Juskowiak, Schnellinger Mauritz, Juskowiak Stollenwerk, Juskowiak Stollenwerk, Juskowiak Stollenwerk, Juskowiak Stollenwerk, Schnellinger 1960 Stollenwerk, Schnellinger Erhardt, Schnellinger Giesemann, Erhardt Lutz, Schnellinger Erhardt, Schnellinger Lutz, Schnellinger Lutz, Schnellinger 1961 Lutz, Schnellinger Lutz, Erhardt Erhardt, Schnellinger Nowak, Schnellinger, Nowak, Erhardt Nowak, Schnellinger 1962 Schnellinger, Kurbjuhn Nowak, Schnellinger (WC) Nowak, Schnellinger (WC) Nowak, Schnellinger (WC) Nowak, Schnellinger (WC) Erhardt, Schnellinger Pott, Schnellinger Nowak, Schnellinger 1963 Nowak, Schnellinger Nowak, Pott Nowak, Kurbjuhn Nowak, Kurbjuhn 1964 Lutz, Kurbjuhn Nowak, Pott Nowak, Steiner Lutz, Redder Nowak, Schnellinger 1965 Piontek, Patzke Höttges, Patzke Piontek, Höttges Piontek, Höttges Piontek, Höttges Höttges, Schnellinger Höttges, Lorenz Piontek, Höttges 1966 Lutz, Lorenz Höttges, Lorenz Lutz, Kurbjuhn Lutz, Höttges Lutz, Schnellinger Höttges, Schnellinger Höttges, Schnellinger (WC) Höttges, Schnellinger (WC) Höttges, Schnellinger (WC) Höttges, Schnellinger (WC) Lutz, Schnellinger (WC) Höttges, Schnellinger (WC) Heidemann, Höttges Heidemann, Höttges 1967 Patzke, Höttges Patzke, Höttges Patzke, Höttges Patzke, Vogts Patzke, Höttges Patzke, Höttges Patzke, Vogts Patzke, Höttges 1968 Vogts, Höttges Heidemann, Vogts Vogts, Höttges Vogts, Lorenz Vogts, Lorenz Vogts, Lorenz Vogts, Höttges Vogts, Höttges Vogts, Patzke Vogts, Patzke Vogts, Patzke 1969 Vogts, Höttges Patzke, Vogts Höttges, Vogts Vogts, Höttges Höttges, Vogts Höttges, Vogts Höttges, Vogts 1970 Vogts, Schnellinger Vogts, Höttges Patzke, Vogts Vogts, Höttges Vogts, Höttges (WC) Vogts, Höttges (WC) Vogts, Höttges (WC) Vogts, Höttges (WC) Vogts, Patzke (WC) Patzke, Vogts (WC) Vogts, Höttges Vogts, Höttges Vogts, Höttges Vogts, Höttges 1971 Vogts, Patzke Vogts, Patzke Schwarzenbeck, Vogts Breitner, Vogts Vogts, Schwarzenbeck Vogts, Schwarzenbeck Vogts, Schwarzenbeck Breitner, Schwarzenbeck Höttges, Schwarzenbeck 1972 Höttges, Breitner Höttges, Breitner (EC) Höttges, Breitner (EC) Höttges, Breitner Höttges, Breitner (EC) Höttges, Breitner (EC) Höttges, Breitner 1973 Höttges, Vogts Vogts, Breitner Höttges, Breitner Höttges, Breitner Breitner, Vogts Höttges, Breitner Kapellmann, Höttges Höttges, H.Kremers Vogts, Höttges Vogts, Höttges 1974 Vogts, Höttges Höttges, Breitner Breitner, Vogts Vogts, H.Kremers Vogts, Breitner Vogts, Breitner (WC) Vogts, Breitner (WC) Vogts, Breitner (WC) Vogts, Breitner (WC) Vogts, Breitner (WC) Vogts, Breitner (WC) Schwarzenbeck, Breitner (WC) Vogts, H.Kremers Vogts, H.Kremers Vogts, Dietz 1975 Bonhof, Vogts Vogts, Breitner Vogts, Bonhof Kaltz, Vogts Kaltz, Vogts Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Dietz 1976 Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Dietz (EC) Vogts, Dietz (EC) Vogts, Dietz (EC) Vogts, Dietz (EC) Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Dietz 1977 Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Dietz Tenhagen, Vogts Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Dietz 1978 Vogts, Zimmermann Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Dietz Vogts, Zimmermann Vogts, Zimmermann (WC) Vogts, Dietz (WC) Vogts, Dietz (WC) Vogts, Dietz (WC) Vogts, Dietz (WC) Vogts, Dietz (WC) Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz 1979 Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, B.Förster Konopka, B.Förster Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Briegel Kaltz, Dietz 1980 Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz (EC) Kaltz, Dietz (EC) Kaltz, B.Förster (EC) Kaltz, Dietz (EC) Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz 1981 Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Dietz Kaltz, Briegel Kaltz, Briegel Kaltz, Briegel Kaltz, Briegel Kaltz, Briegel Kaltz, Briegel Kaltz, Briegel Kaltz, Briegel 1982 Kaltz, Briegel Kaltz, Briegel Kaltz, Briegel Kaltz, Briegel B.Förster, Briegel Kaltz, Briegel (WC) Kaltz, Briegel (WC) Kaltz, Briegel (WC) Kaltz, Briegel (WC) Kaltz, B.Förster (WC) Kaltz, B.Förster (WC) Kaltz, B.Förster (WC) Dremmler, B.Förster Kaltz, B.Förster Kaltz, B.Förster 1983 Kaltz, Briegel B.Förster, Otten Dremmler, Briegel Dremmler, Briegel B.Förster, Briegel B.Förster, Briegel Dremmler, Briegel Otten, Briegel Dremmler, Briegel B.Förster, Briegel 1984 Bockenfeld, Brehme Dremmler, Brehme Rolff, Briegel B.Förster, Briegel B.Förster, Briegel B.Förster, Briegel (EC) B.Förster, Briegel (EC) B.Förster, Briegel (EC) Brehme, Frontzeck Jakobs, Briegel Played at right back most often: Berti Vogts 75x Manfred Kaltz 49x Horst-Dieter Höttges 28x Georg Stollenwerk 16x Hans Nowak 15x Erich Retter 13x Herbert Erhardt 13x Bernd Patzke 11x Friedhelm Lutz 10x Bernd Förster 10x Played at left back most often: Bernard Dietz 49x Karl-Heinz Schnellinger 34x Horst-Dieter Höttges 33x Hans-Peter Briegel 33x Erich Juskowiak 23x Werner Kohlmeyer 21x Paul Breitner 21x Berti Vogts 19x Most common combination: Vogts, Dietz 27x Kaltz, Dietz 22x Vogts, Höttges 19x (+ Höttges, Vogts 5x) Kaltz, Briegel 18x Höttges, Breitner 11x Stollenwerk, Juskowiak 10x