Kenny Cooper or Edson Buddle as target striker for 2004 Olympics?

Big teams always horde talent, it helps the competitive nature of the reserve team and ensures that whoever graduates to the first team is adequately prepared. Plus throw in all the CL games and a deep bench is needed. Young Cooper's best long term shot is to get loaned out to a smaller team like Dortmund did with Casey....

 

Re: Cooper turned down residency?

Excellent post davide. This is why I enjoy BigSoccer.

I still wonder if his Dad kept him under the radar for a while. Maybe not as the boy had a late birthday. He just might be one of those players who fell through the cracks. Him and Karbassiyoon make a good case for keeping our options open after the U16 team is selected.

I also find it to be very interesting that MLS / Dallas Burn didn't sign him.

Again, great post.

 

Do they play the traditional Dutch 4-3-3? If so, then maybe he plays left sided striker like Frankie Hejduk played right sided striker for Bayer Leverkusen when they went on that tremendous hot streak a few years back to vault into 2nd place and the CL.

I'm not entirely clear what the difference between a 4-3-3, and ManU's formation, is. ManU's wings get very far forward, and Scholes likes to make runs from deep. OK, yeah, I do see the difference...but it's not a huge difference. Has anyone seen PSV this year? Do they play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3? If the latter, he's likely cover for Giggs, not Forlan/Cooper.

 

Re: Re: Cooper turned down residency?

He's supposedly getting $1M/3 years from ManU.

 

Whereas some would argue now that he wasn't seen as a great you prospect; but is now a potential solid pro. That is where the controversy lies. It does go back to the numbers game being played with the Bradenton scheme. Ideally, the cream of the crop is identified early and given advanced training.

A player like Cooper who may not have been in the top 5 so to speak; but was most likely in the top 10 still falls off the radar due to the selection process being self limiting. This happens in the best of circumstance, where the widest possible net is being cast; but by late teens early twenties, the cream and milk are a little better separated. Which means that a Kenny Cooper does slip past the MLS net; but still finds a way to make it to a pro club, in this case one of the top clubs.

Things are going well right now; but it is still going to be another year or two before we know for sure where he fits in United's plans. Suffice to say, it is the kind of club that will bring players along quickly if they have the talent.

P.S. I would also add that United doesn't have a true back-up for RVN. They may still be able to produce goals as a team; but playing with that one target forward is still largely resting on the shoulders of RVN. Cooper could enjoy a lengthy apprenticeship under RVN and also provide cover for RVN as he gets older. That may be why, SAF spends 19M for a compliment to RVN rather than spending 5-10M on a RVN clone/prospect.

 

Re: Re: Kenny Cooper or Edson Buddle as target striker for 2004 Olympics?

Solid point.

 

kenny cooper

Kenny Cooper would turn down the chance to join up with the olympic team even if asked...and he probably wont be...he is focused on making it at Man U. The US national team programs showed zero interest in Cooper..until Man U did..all of a sudden they are interested...Cooper could have gone to Benfica, as they were in for him first...then Man U got wind of him...he is doing great in Man U's reserve team ( not exactly chopped liver reserves )...my brother, who lives in the north of England has watched Kenny play and is of the opinion he is a Ruud clone...and that Sir Alex feels the same way....Cooper is better right now than Mc Bride and if the USA doesn't pick up on this fact fast, they will miss out...Cooper also has a British passport ( his dad is English ), and is eligable to play for England....The under 20 coaches of the English national team are already aware of him...The fact that rongen would not even look at him...despite being told he should do by knowlegable people...could be a factor in Cooper's choice of where to pledge his international future should he progress as he is now. The USA ignored him...maybe the shoe will eventually be on the other foot...and Cooper will ignore the US. Mike in Dallas

 

Re: kenny cooper

Nice first post.

 

Comments

I've seen PSV play several times this year.

I couldn't tell you what formation they run. But I can tell you that Robben is a lot more like Paul Scholes than Conor Casey. Can't imagine him really fighting for the same position as Kenny Cooper.

Robben is friggin' good, too. The Paul Scholes comparison is no stretch.

Davide, thanks for your informative post. The bottom line is, Cooper didn't fly under the radar. The radar saw him & wasn't very impressed. Man U begged to differ. We'll see over time which party was correct.

 

Re: kenny cooper

Better than McBride? Dunno about that, especially for a guy who's highest level of play is reserves. Sounds as if you have not seen Cooper play though. Thats another thread.

This is a strong possibility - unfortunate if it comes true. Are there any links showing if Cooper is already locked to US team play?

 

Re: Re: kenny cooper

Why would he be locked to U.S. team play?

I just read an article yesterday about how several EPL guys who played on youth U21 teams are deciding which nationality to represent on a senior team. As in some guy who played Nigerian U21 may now play for England's senior squad.

So I can't imagine that Cooper's senior choices are in any way limited, not that he is remotely a current possibility for the English National team.

 

Re: kenny cooper

Hi Kenny's girlfriend/brother/father.

 

Re: kenny cooper

I took the liberty of snipping a lot of your post. Saying Cooper is better than McBride right now is a bit much, don't you think? McBride's already scored in the premiereship...Potentially Cooper is better than McBride, no doubt. However, you have to look at the level of the players in front of Cooper---Buddle and Casey. Buddle has bagged more than his share of goals in MLS and Casey has scored in the Bundesliga 1st. In addition, our B+ U23 team defeated ManU's reserve team last year....

As far as representing England or the USA, that will come down to how well he develops, his choice and which team has a need for him soonest...

 

Re: kenny cooper

The poster "The Next Level" made a good point some weeks ago. Something to the effect that we will someday reach the point where our players are better than our coaches. We cycle through players about once every four or six years. Not so on the coaching side. The buddy system keeps things a bit more static on the coaching side.

I also know that there are a lot of second tier coaches that consider themselves to be better than the current crop of first tier coaches. Maybe they are right. Maybe we've reached the point where the current crop of coaches aren’t as good as the players and the second tier needs to come along.

Cooper vs. E. Johnson at Dallas is a good case in point. In my book, Johnson (yeah golden boot blah, blah) is a petulant kid. Cooper should have taken Quarenta's spot in DC. We should wonder why Johnson and Quarenta were tolerated but Cooper wasn't signed. Someone needs to interview these people.

 

Re: Re: kenny cooper

You think Cooper is better than McBribe also?
Was you it words that said "... your post is one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard, congratulations".
You just made it. To think and agree Cooper is better than McBribe tops the scale of "idiotic things" ever heard.

 

Re: Re: Re: kenny cooper

Never heard of Doug Piranha, have you.

 

Re: Re: Re: kenny cooper

i think he was being wholly facetious.

 

Check the batteries on your sarcasm detector.

 

Considering that Tmagic77 got bent out shape
about things being said about Cooper earlier...dunno about him being sarcastic about Cooper being better than McBribe.

 

You've got it wrong. That was sarcasm. I didn't get bent out of shape because you were talking about Cooper. I was angry at the way that you compared him.

 

kenny cooper..better than McBride..

Seems I opened a can of worms with the comment about Cooper being better than McBride, ( is it always like this ? remember I am a rookie at this and this is my second post ) so let me clarify. I am not related to Kenny Cooper ( superdave's conclusion) Yes I have seen him play for the past five years, since he was thirteen ( united 20's assuption ) During that time I have also watched McBride vs the Burn on several occasions ) The quote about "Cooper being better than McBride right now" was told to me by one of the Man U coaches ( a former team-mate of mine ) Again, this is not chopped liver reserves he is playing for....Man U wants players that can beat Real Madrid et al...not Ipswich Town...Cooper may develope into that type of player...McBride will not. Before Cooper started playing for the reserves their record was 3 wins 4 draws 3 defeats. Since Cooper their record is 7 wins 2 draws and 3 defeats ( this includes a loss 2-1 at Man City this evening...Cooper scored the opening goal...He has still only played a full 90 minutes in one game...he was taken off to-night with the score at 1-1...( there is method to this madness, more later.. ). Mike in Dallas...p.s. I played and coached 14 years in the NASL...played six times for the full national team....have an " A " licence...

 

Re: kenny cooper..better than McBride..

Welcome to BigSoccer, Mike, and yes, it IS always like this! And I hope you realize that there will now be a hunt on to deterimine who you really are! (BTW, did you ever play youth ball in Italy???....an innocent inside joke. )

Your post sounds credible to me, and your view is certainly confirmed by ManU's decisions. After all, they threw a lot of money, relatively speaking, at this kid. And they are a smart firm, no Inter Milan.

And it's great news to hear that Coop scored again tonight. I'd love to hear more about the "method to the madness" you cite.

Kenny is scoring and the team is winning with him in the lineup. And he just got out of high school.
Make all the trite Kirovski comments you want, but that speaks volumes about the kid's raw talent.

I hope Coop gets called in soon by a Nat team, if only for a look. I guess Rongen tried with the U20 Spain tourney, hopefully there will soon be other chances with another Nat team. But obviously Kenny's priority is ManU right now.

 

Re: kenny cooper..better than McBride..

You've got to admit that just busting out with the claim that a kid who has never done anything significant in the soccer world is better than a guy who has succeeded at every level possible, is highly suspicious.

 

Re: kenny cooper..better than McBride..

Mike, with all respect due your credentials, I am a loss as to how you can rate a player who has never played against Div 1 pros, vs a guy capped for the USA 70 times, 3rd all time scorer, 3 WC goals , and a great WC 2002. I am sure you are not trying to be disrespectful, but that is giving McBride VERY little credit.Cooper may be all that, plus more, but McBride has done it against world class players and has come through time and again.Ask the Portuguese if they enjoyed playing against big Mac.
I hope Cooper is as good as you say, but he has shown great promise but proven nothing yet.If scoring goals for the reserves was the key measure, Jovan Kirovski would be mentioned in the same breath as Pele.

 

Re: Re: kenny cooper..better than McBride..

hey, bruce. the guy attributes the McBride comparison to a ManU coach, not himself. i didn't take it as meaning that he's saying that Cooper is better than McBride right now (even though he does indeed say 'right now'), but that he could eventually develop into a better player, a player on the level of beating Real Madrids not just Ipswich Towns.

now, i know McBride has had a fine Nat career and played great against Portugal and all that, but he has not made it at every level as a previous poster said. he has had a nice career, but nobody with a straight face can say he was Real or Milan or ManU quality. in fact, he never even managed to carve out a workman's career at the bottom of the EPL. we believe he could have succeeded at that level, and perhaps he had other, perhaps non-footballing obstacles in his way, but McBride was never going to be world class.

so i think one has to ask oneself why Manchester United never bothered to offer McBride, or any other number of American players for that matter, $1mil over three years -- and yet they hand over the same sum on a silver platter to an unknown American 19-year-old. (and i don't want to hear anyone whining about anti-American conspiracies.)

clubs make mistakes all the time, but i think it would be unfair to disrespect out of hand ManU's judgment, its gamble on this kid. i'm not saying you are doing that, just that i believe ManU are making as informed a decision as possible. they what they believe is a sound basis for making this investment, and want to see it succeed.

that alone is pretty amazing.

but as you say, it assures nothing and so far, after three months in the reserves, Cooper cannot possibly compare to McBride, even if he's had a fine initial run. and let's not completely stigmatize EPL reserve ball as worthless with the umpteenth trite reference to kirovski. there are some fine players there -- reyna struggled in reserves this year -- and in any case it's a loooong way from Dallas high school ball.

i, for one, am damn impressed by what he's done so far, as i know we all are -- by the fact that he got this deal, that they seem to really believe in him, that he's scoring goals, that his team's winning with him on the pitch and losing when's not there.

forget about the Mcbride comparison. this is just a great story, and Kenny is clearly full of potential. hardly any of us has ever even seen him play, and yet he may suit up for ManU before we know it.

that's just friggin' amazing.